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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:41:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Kashimir
Edited by: Kashimir on 23/02/2009 12:02:10
Still haven't managed to probe down a single WH on SiSi... But I'm trying, cause this sounds waaay to good to miss out 
Compared to the current lvl4 mission running... Well, the fact that there is the word 'running' in that sentence seals the deal.
I think a lot of mission runners will continue making Isk by lvl4s but will start spending it on wormholes. 
If you havent fought a sleeper before get prepared for alot of painful lessons unless you read few of my and ohter pilots accounts.
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Winters Chill
Amarr
Mutants And Outcasts
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:50:00 -
[32]
I disagree with the original poster.
I like the idea of there being space intrinsically more hostile than vanilla 0.0. At least the sleepers give you a sort of fighting chance, unlike the present 0.0 mechanics where is you blind jump without an cashcow for ccp, ahem, I mean an alt. Your dead with no chance of escape (I'm talking HICs, Dics, Bubbles)
Ofcourse you could still get gang ganked but because w-space encourages you to gang up it will be alot more entertaining.
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Kopkiller
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:14:00 -
[33]
I actually think this thread is doomed to fail.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:59:00 -
[34]
Quote:
The reason people run missions is because they are repeatable with a minimum amount of risk once one knows how to run any given mission. Implementing a PvE system whereby there are significant elements of risk that cannot be controlled for is simply doomed to failure because by and large people won't be willing to risk their shiny ships when they don't know what to expect.
Remember that Wormhole Space is the proving ground for the new AI system. Soon we will be seeing this AI in regular missions, and that easy source of ISK will be gone. It's a true adapt or die situation.
It's also one hell of a boost to the mining profession and a bit of a nerf to the salvaging one, all in all a remarkably clever idea.
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Originally by: The Cuckoo
Good luck in defending idiotic and greedy noobs, as far as I'm concerned, you are their champion.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:17:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Remember that Wormhole Space is the proving ground for the new AI system. Soon we will be seeing this AI in regular missions, and that easy source of ISK will be gone. It's a true adapt or die situation.
It's also one hell of a boost to the mining profession and a bit of a nerf to the salvaging one, all in all a remarkably clever idea.
Not really a nerf to multi-account missioners like yours truly. I go in with 3 ships, any one of which easily capable of soloing the mission. It doesn't matter if the rats focus fire, hate on the drones or just sit around while their friends are efficiently processed.
This is now standard for the "professional" mission grinder.
What is missing from the OPs equation is the reward from sleeper splorking. *IF* the loot is worthwhile people will do it. On the other hand, if L3 cruisers weigh in at a billion a pop they better be the most unbalanced thing we've ever seen to sell in volumes greater than 1-2 units a month. I know the bonuses aren't final but what I've seen so far is not quite as good as tech1 battlecruisers, never mind command ships. Only collectors would fork over > 1B for that.
Carebears won't be lining up in droves to buy T3 cruisers without obscenely profitable new L6 or L7 missions which only allow T3 cruisers. That's what people tend to forget -- PvE is just mining rats with guns. Who cares about getting a faction Osprey to go mining in when you already have a Hulk?
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Dragonwell
Department of Defence
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:38:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 23/02/2009 10:16:32
W-Space is not meant to be PvE territory or a replacement for missioning. With the story arcs and additional missions included in Apocrypha that much should be obvious. I am very much looking forward to the new missions and the new exploration content.
W-Space is a way for PvP'ers to Carebear without having to wash out their mouths whenever they mention it.
The Sleeper AI will choose targets based on threat levels and apply eWar according to effectiveness .. similar to PvP combat.
The current stats on the T3 cruisers indicate that they are geared towards PvP use as well, further enforcing the Carebear-PvP connection.
With T3 partially being built in POS labs it becomes even more obvious as the null-sec folk ("PvP'ers") already have the POS system as part of their everyday lives.
Question is; Will there be a place in Q-Space for the PvE Carebears?
My answer would be yes. Not to start out as it requires the pilots to adopt PvP skill-sets and tatics which will take some time.
The industrial backbone of the PvE entities is much stronger than their more violent brothers' though, so in the long run W-Space will become an extension, perhaps even specialised version, of the mission corporations.
Regardless, CCP will be tweaking numbers for months to come until they hit whatever sweet spot they have in mind for the W+Space content. So todays impossible Sleeper spawn may be tomorrows *****-cats.
This. This. This.
TL;DR beyond this post because it's all that needed to be said. Since when is wspace supposed to be a replacement for missioning? Since when is wspace supposed to be carebear friendly? New features and their implementation do not revolve around whether or not you can break out your CNR and wipe the field clean with no risk. Honestly, if nothing else, PVPers could use Sleeper engagements as training exercises - the consequences and risks are very real, and Sleeper AI is intended to function as a PVP pilot would. Add to that, there are actually, you know, rewards for destroying Sleepers, as opposed to pure PVP where the rewards are few and far between.
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Awake in a Space-Dye Vest
Struggling with Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
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While trapped inside this Octavarium. |
Cyb3r Thr3at
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2009.02.23 19:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dragonwell
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 23/02/2009 10:16:32
W-Space is not meant to be PvE territory or a replacement for missioning. With the story arcs and additional missions included in Apocrypha that much should be obvious. I am very much looking forward to the new missions and the new exploration content.
W-Space is a way for PvP'ers to Carebear without having to wash out their mouths whenever they mention it.
The Sleeper AI will choose targets based on threat levels and apply eWar according to effectiveness .. similar to PvP combat.
The current stats on the T3 cruisers indicate that they are geared towards PvP use as well, further enforcing the Carebear-PvP connection.
With T3 partially being built in POS labs it becomes even more obvious as the null-sec folk ("PvP'ers") already have the POS system as part of their everyday lives.
Question is; Will there be a place in Q-Space for the PvE Carebears?
My answer would be yes. Not to start out as it requires the pilots to adopt PvP skill-sets and tatics which will take some time.
The industrial backbone of the PvE entities is much stronger than their more violent brothers' though, so in the long run W-Space will become an extension, perhaps even specialised version, of the mission corporations.
Regardless, CCP will be tweaking numbers for months to come until they hit whatever sweet spot they have in mind for the W+Space content. So todays impossible Sleeper spawn may be tomorrows *****-cats.
This. This. This.
TL;DR beyond this post because it's all that needed to be said. Since when is wspace supposed to be a replacement for missioning? Since when is wspace supposed to be carebear friendly? New features and their implementation do not revolve around whether or not you can break out your CNR and wipe the field clean with no risk. Honestly, if nothing else, PVPers could use Sleeper engagements as training exercises - the consequences and risks are very real, and Sleeper AI is intended to function as a PVP pilot would. Add to that, there are actually, you know, rewards for destroying Sleepers, as opposed to pure PVP where the rewards are few and far between.
Agree 100%
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Exoth3rmic
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Posted - 2009.02.24 00:08:00 -
[38]
Mmmmm. Concord doesn't exist in wormhole space. If you go through a wormhole you best be prepared to protect yourself from any form of aggression, npc or player.
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Enthral
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Posted - 2009.02.24 00:36:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Maren Maen
You guys are out of touch, sorry to say. And considering t3's success is contingent upon wspace's success (in order to bring the prices low enough to be accessible), I suppose two years from now we'll all look back and be thankful that at least we got a skill queue and attribute respec.
First, you have quite a bit of hubris to post here and claim CCP is out of touch with the players based solely on your opinion of what makes a good game.
In fact, not only do I think CCP is showing a great deal of savvy with the new AI system, but I believe w-space will be a success for exactly the same reasons you think it will be a failure.
-Enthral
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Hanns
Canadian Aerospace Defence Sector
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Posted - 2009.02.24 02:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Exoth3rmic
Mmmmm. Concord doesn't exist in wormhole space.
Are you sure? these "sleepers" i keep reading about sound like Concord on there days off .
Uber gank you with uber unfair advantage and tactics, I keep hearing the term AI? is this really true? or are the Sleepers just uber tanking uber jamming DPS machines that far outmatch anything any player could pitch 1v1 in an attempt to make them seem intelligent?
I always take these claims with a pinch of salt when i hear the term AI, it gets tossed around far to easily, and you normally end up with an opponent with unrealistic super human reactions and accuracy in a poor attempt to make something harder and conceal the total lack of any AI. Well in most other games this is how it happens, although im not giving CCP enough credit they normally do a pretty good job at implimenting new features 
I guess the jury is out and ill have to make my own mind up when i get a chance to test the sleepers out.
Originally by: Tuxford
a new retribution bonus +1 med slot per level
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