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3vilAng3l
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Posted - 2009.02.24 05:35:00 -
[1]
So im trying to snipe in npc complexes but having trouble doing any noticeable damage im running 5 serpentis 250mm rails with antimatter and doing around 150 damage if im lucky :/
i think this is because i dont fully understand the optimal range/falloff. should i be keeping at opt range for full damage or falloff?
or should i give in n keep with rails even though i cant keep up with the cruisers lol
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Bo'Tox
Amarr
Arkor Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.24 06:59:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Bo''Tox on 24/02/2009 07:00:00
HI,
There are numerous issues that affect damage but here are a few to help:
- Optimal+falloff = most of the damage done wil lbe 100% of that possible. At Optimal +Falloff+falloff the damage degreases dramatically making it almost non-worthwhile...
- Transversal velocity - thi is a big one and OI dont understand it a heck of a lot... Al I kow is that if you agrro some rats and run away, as they chase you, they are heading straight to you and so present nice non-moving targets to the guns pointing diorectly behind you - thus you get the biggets potential for damage.
- skills - make sure you have the gunnery (7 IIRC?) skills at L4 at least to get the most damage...
Hope that helps.
PS: If the enemy gets closer than Falloff the n I've had a lot of issues as they tend to move faster than you can track them, thus the move away from the damage! (relatively speaking).
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3vilAng3l
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Posted - 2009.02.24 07:03:00 -
[3]
are u saying i should add my falloff range to my opt range to get most damage?
i realised also that i was shooting enemy with high kinetic resist and i can only shoot kinetic :/ on top of that none of my ships can use launcers except celestis which erm no good for armour tanking really damn i need bs skill #:/
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Karox Lominax
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Posted - 2009.02.24 07:19:00 -
[4]
Theres 3 main issues with shooting targets:
1) Range from you
2) How fast they are moving perpendicular to your movement (transversal velocity)
3) How big your guns are
For 1: You can hit up to a range of your 'optimal range' without suffering any penalties. If you shoot up to optimal+falloff, you have a reduction in your chance to hit of up to 50% (at opt+falloff) - if the range increases to optimal+2x falloff, you will never hit as you are simply out of range. Keep in mind that antimatter ammo reduces your optimal range of the weapon by 50%
For 2: You need a gun which can rotate in its mount as fast as any target that is moving 'around' your ship... if the target is approaching you, or running away from you directly, their transversal velocity is zero. The actual speed they are moving doesnt have anything at all to do with the chance to hit/do damage (unlike with missiles, where their actual speed has a factor of damage)
For 3: If your signature resolution on the gun is larger than the signature radius of your target, you will suffer a damage reduction as your guns simply cant put the full force of their shot into the opponent. Therefore shooting a small ship with a big gun is quite pointless.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.24 07:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 24/02/2009 07:40:06
Fitting the biggest guns you can find rarely is the best way of doing things due to tracking and fitting issues. Especially with low 'motion prediction' skill, huge guns (250's are the biggest cruiser rails) and ships that don't get a bonus to tracking it's going to be a b!tch. Switch to 200mm if not smaller and try again.
On the range issue; if you're within optimal you don't get a range penalty, if you add 1xfalloff to your optimal range you'll get 50% to-hit penalty in regards to range. Thing is ofcourse that the closer a target gets the more change there might be to miss it due to the tracking problem, so there's an ideal range for every setup/skill.
Apart from that; the Celestis hardly is an ideal ship for doing damage or doing any sort of PVE. It's mostly an Ewar support ship. Switch to a Thorax if you have good gunnery skills or a Vexor if your drones skills are better.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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3vilAng3l
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:16:00 -
[6]
think it will be better to get something to reduce my scan res? am getting great power on my neutrons but i keep having to warp out so i want to snipe them ^^
fast targets arnt usually a problem as i get my drones to deal with them ill mess around with a few onfigs on my brutix to snipe :I
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:18:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Karox Lominax
2) How fast they are moving perpendicular to your movement (transversal velocity)
3) How big your guns are
Actually, these two are the same thing - in so far as the signature radius of your guns vs. the target is simply a multiplier to tracking. In other words, firing at a 40m (frigate) target with 125m (cruiser-sized) guns with a 400m/s transversal, you'll have the same chance to hit as if the target was actually doing ((125 / 40) * 400) = 1250m/s transversal, with you firing at it with an appropriate sized gun.
Broadly speaking this leads to the same conclusion - i.e. that it's hard to hit small things with big guns - but there's a critical difference. Unlike missiles, which always do reduced damage to an undersized target, oversized guns just multiply tracking - so if the transversal is low enough, even oversized turrets will track the small turret adequately enough to hit (and unleash damage that is likely to be much more than the smaller ship can take for long). As a special case, when transversal velocity is zero and the target is within optimal range, there's always 100% chance to hit. Thus even long-range battleship turrets can "track" a stationary frigate; for this reason smaller ships should always try to keep up some speed/transversal when facing turret ships.
I don't believe there's a problem with linking to killmails here; as an example, this harpy was only 10km from the Apoc with the lowest-tracking lasers in the game, but because he was stationary he went down in a single volley.
So to reiterate:
Quote:
For 3: If your signature resolution on the gun is larger than the signature radius of your target, you will suffer a damage reduction as your guns simply cant put the full force of their shot into the opponent. Therefore shooting a small ship with a big gun is quite pointless.
Rather, you suffer a reduction in tracking not damage - and so if you can engineer a situation where the transversal velocity is low enough that your modified low tracking can still hit, then by all means it is not pointless to fire on small ships.
Resources: Tracking formala (if you like maths) is here (left hand part is the bit strictly about tracking, while the right hand part covers chance due to range); while I recommend the OP read the tracking guide, which is a very good graphical (and interactive) tutorial explaining what it all means. In particular, playing around with the figures at the end can help one get a handle on the "feel" of turret tracking.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: 3vilAng3l
think it will be better to get something to reduce my scan res? am getting great power on my neutrons but i keep having to warp out so i want to snipe them ^^
fast targets arnt usually a problem as i get my drones to deal with them ill mess around with a few onfigs on my brutix to snipe :I
Scan resolution affects only how quickly you target things. Reducing it will make you target slower, which is probably not what you want anyway.
Neutrons are blasters - i.e the SHORTEST range weapons in the game. You cannot snipe with blasters (it would be like trying to snipe with a taser). If you want to snipe, you'll need to use railguns to do so. If you're not able to take the close-range damage (which it sounds like you can't because you keep warping out), then you'll need to snipe as you can't go toe-to-toe.
Read the tracking guide, try to minimise transversal, perhaps fit a tracking computer/tracking enhancer or two, maybe drop down a tier of guns (e.g. from 250mm rails to 200mm rails - a little less damage and range, but more tracking means that you may well end up delivering more damage on target overall).
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3vilAng3l
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:30:00 -
[9]
Ill see how it goes, going to try a refit so i can snipe.thanks for advices
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Izae
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:38:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Izae on 24/02/2009 09:38:31
Hopefully this link will help you a bit: http://www.eveonline.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp
I don't know how up to date this one is though but I don't think you can find this really great simulation in the new eve player guide.
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/Ice_ |
3vilAng3l
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Posted - 2009.02.24 10:21:00 -
[11]
well with my new fitting i was hitting a npc bc around 250 to 500 which is nice :)
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