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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:43:00 -
[1]
Been seeing it in just about every item I trade lately. Don't get me wrong, this is a great thing -- I'm lazy, so I have inventory to dump post buyout price jump just about every time.
Is anyone else noticing the same thing or am I just crazed?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:50:00 -
[2]
Some of us are ramping up for the expansion, just seems there are more players than normal though that I'll agree with. |
Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:09:00 -
[3]
What's worse is I'm seeing a lot more lazy slop. Look at the jita PLEX manipulation, for instance. The guy with the 10 low volume orders pushing prices lower has them all ending in .00. Could he possibly be more lazy? At least put a *FEW* up making it look like lemmings are playing with you. And would it kill you to use another alt once in a while?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:35:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Clair Bear
What's worse is I'm seeing a lot more lazy slop. Look at the jita PLEX manipulation, for instance. The guy with the 10 low volume orders pushing prices lower has them all ending in .00. Could he possibly be more lazy? At least put a *FEW* up making it look like lemmings are playing with you. And would it kill you to use another alt once in a while?
To be honest, I've used Kwint Sommer for most of my manipulations. Hell, I've even made references to what I'm manipulating while still in the process, see some of my old comments on Platinum. If you're smart about your manipulation there isn't much people can do, even if they know what's happening. Don't think of it as laziness, think of it as maximizing your income as a function of effort. 
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:40:00 -
[5]
I'm seeing it more often even away from Jita. I think people are under the delusion that if they do it enough across a lot of items they'll come out ahead.
I've received some nice hate evemails, and local verbal lashings over the way I deal with my orders. Like you Clair Bear I have inventory, lots of inventory for all the items I sell. I only list between 5-10% of my inventory depending on what it is and how quickly it moves. (A nice tip for all those newbies out there, don't list your whole inventory ever.)
What ends up happening is people gobble up the orders, relist at 500% markup. I simple relist another 5% for 50% higher then I what I just sold at. I managed to release about 60% of my inventory for an item on a guy who just kept buying the item. Now he has about 4 months worth of actual consumption of the item by players who use it in his inventory on top of the 6 months he purchased from the market the first time.
He was royally annoyed over the fact I kept listing a little higher ever time but still significantly lower then his stuff. He waited until I was off-line before purchasing out my order again, to which I saw this on EMMA, waited about 20 minutes and logged in and listed another 5%. A day later that person is not listing that item anymore. I can only assume he is waiting, or has simple moved his sizable inventory.
I think the tactic of buy out/re-list works too well and people are just becoming lazy. While I don't mind this tactic, a word of warning to people who use it, there are very effective ways to deal with it, and they all equal you losing out.
I use to list 100% of my inventory until I was frustrated and pleased at the same time. It's a rather bitter sweet situation. On one hand you are selling your inventory in one sweep, making the ISK you where expecting to make. On the other hand, some guy with a big wallet is making easy ISK off your efforts. Especially if you're a manufacture.
For the most part the items that are manufactured already start with a small margin as competition is large. These are the items people gobble up and re-list. They usually break even and are left with an inventory of items basically for free. They then compete with you because they have already recovered their ISK with a much larger inventory.
You as a manufacture have to sell for a price that you can make a smaller profit but still be competitive. A bulk buyer/re-lister may have paid for those margins but has re-cooped the cost in a few sales. So now their cost is ZERO so they can list below your build price.
This is the reason why you don't list your entire inventory. You instantly give them the upper hand. Listing only a part of your inventory makes it more difficult for them to justify buying up the inventory.
Chances are they looked at the market and saw, x number of units and work out a little basic math. Found out they only need to sell 5% of the market to break even so they buy up large amounts. Well unless you're the only person in the item (unlikely) others will have also got their items purchased.
To combat this, simply list a part of the inventory you have on hand. This will trigger you to re-list another part of your inventory cheaper then they have their aquired items. Keep upping your price, if they want to keep buying you might as well make some extra profit from their stupidity. The back and forth from your orders to the mark-upper should be long enough for your normal compeition to replace their inventory and list it on the market again. Now the mark-upper has to buy up not only your higher priced inventory, but the normal competition higher priced inventory.
The mark-upper had better have a much larger wallet to even hope to capture the market. However the whole time, he has been collecting inventory from elevated prices he has to sell higher then you can make it for.
It's about the most effective way to deal with them, that's if you want to keep the market share. Otherwise enjoy the cash out.
Amarr for Life |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:58:00 -
[6]
The list relist trick really only works so well on items which have lengthy manufacture times or have logistical requirements behind them.
I laugh when I see people buy and relist things like Small Armor Rep IIs
They do know that only a few BPO owners can churn out a small army's worth right?
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Peeveepee
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Clair Bear
What's worse is I'm seeing a lot more lazy slop. Look at the jita PLEX manipulation, for instance. The guy with the 10 low volume orders pushing prices lower has them all ending in .00. Could he possibly be more lazy? At least put a *FEW* up making it look like lemmings are playing with you. And would it kill you to use another alt once in a while?
I am curious on how someone with 10 low volume order ending with .00 can push the price down.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Peeveepee
Originally by: Clair Bear
What's worse is I'm seeing a lot more lazy slop. Look at the jita PLEX manipulation, for instance. The guy with the 10 low volume orders pushing prices lower has them all ending in .00. Could he possibly be more lazy? At least put a *FEW* up making it look like lemmings are playing with you. And would it kill you to use another alt once in a while?
I am curious on how someone with 10 low volume order ending with .00 can push the price down.
It only takes one guy with a single unit to push the price down, assuming there are a lot of brainless lemmings/bots that will automatically undercut him by .01 and it has been my experience that the market is full of such people.
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eVaLF
Delivery Luck
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Peeveepee
Originally by: Clair Bear
What's worse is I'm seeing a lot more lazy slop. Look at the jita PLEX manipulation, for instance. The guy with the 10 low volume orders pushing prices lower has them all ending in .00. Could he possibly be more lazy? At least put a *FEW* up making it look like lemmings are playing with you. And would it kill you to use another alt once in a while?
I am curious on how someone with 10 low volume order ending with .00 can push the price down.
It only takes one guy with a single unit to push the price down, assuming there are a lot of brainless lemmings/bots that will automatically undercut him by .01 and it has been my experience that the market is full of such people.
During one of my quick manipulations I raised the price of a ship from about 9mil to 13mil fairly easy, lasted a few days, buy prices went up to almost 11mil per unit. I sold off about 80% of my stock to the buy orders, and put the rest down (less than 200mil isk worth) for 10mil each, 3mil under current low sell price. Instead of waiting for mine to sell out or buying them and replacing them people started the .01 undercuts.
For now I just leave my order up, over time almost all items sell, and some may say I did this wrong, but I hate the .01 undercut game, I like to make isk fast as possible and get out.
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POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES |
Confuzer
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:54:00 -
[10]
I trade alot of items, know the price by heart and didn't notice any increase in manipulation.
Sure I see them. I just skip the item then and wait until it's normal again, or bring them from other regions.
All manipulations in my market section will never go unnoticed and will also be countered to increase my profit by the way. So I only cheer people who do it. I rather have them tell me, instead of finding out an hour later or so, it's annoying :P
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Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Fairy Godmother
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:00:00 -
[11]
Yup, seen it in just about every major hub I have an Alt in.
Market Manipulation is a welcome angle to the whole Trade game -- daily profits can certainly beat the snot out of most manufacturing profit margins, relative to one's scale of operations, and while JITA is often the hub of choice it's not the only "town" to find some action in.
Of EvE's many fun things to do, a good two or three day manipulation run on the Market's is my fave. 
FG
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Absimi Liard
Gallente
Vertical Industrial Partners Limited
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SencneS
It's about the most effective way to deal with them, that's if you want to keep the market share. Otherwise enjoy the cashout.
This, totally this.
I don't mind making a lower margin than a trader, and I don't mind not being in the market. What I do mind is having isk sit idle in sell orders, or anywhere else.
So I'll take the cashout every single time. Thanks.
That said, if there's one guy driving my prices down and I think a little manipulation will raise the market prices back up to a better profit margin I'll dabble in it. I know my costs, and margins, and what typical sales prices and volumes are for the goods I move in the regions I move them in.
So I guess it is the new black, since a even a manufacturer like me does it occasionally.
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Khrillian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:53:00 -
[13]
Microprocessors haven't been manipulated in a couple of months
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2009.02.25 20:48:00 -
[14]
Ive noticed some big manipulations today on multiple fronts. It could also be combined with individuals hoarding stock until Apocrypha is out.
Manipulations are definately on the increase. Makes for an interesting game that's for sure.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:35:00 -
[15]
I trade in Jita, so I don't have any new observations to add aside from that I see manipulation attempts in the Jita market and they do seem more numerous in recent times. However, I think the reason for the increase in manipulation is obvious. There are a number of MD threads where successful traders boast about their often massively profitable manipulation attempts. It doesn't take a rocket engineering R&D agent to put two and two together. More boast threads means more manipulation.
PS, please keep boasting.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Suddenly Whingers
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Posted - 2009.02.27 11:49:00 -
[16]
I won't manipulate per se but If I see movement I certainly how to capitalise on it.
I'm more into fast movement of stock. I don't like to have anything languishing in an inventory pile and if some other trader is simply scooping my orders and reselling then good luck to them, I get my money whoever buys it.
Having said this, I'm only small time at the moment and can't step up to mess with the committed traders. I think I've got 160m in buy and 80m in sell orders at the moment. Not bad for a month old noob I think.
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Fairy Godmother
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Posted - 2009.02.27 12:19:00 -
[17]
I use about the same, and agree it's "not much" by some measures. As always, it's not how much you have but how you use it.
FG
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