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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 08:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hail Panajda Paukonsuo / Concord.
This letter is a query if Concord plans to increase security in the Jita solarsystem based on the threats of the major pirate organisation "Goonswarm" that they will "Burn Jita" on 28th April YC114? Considering experiences in the past involving suicide attacks etc, it would seem a very good idea to do this. Have you considered to flag the entire Goonswarm pirate organization as Outlaws prior to the event?
Thankyou for your response.
Honour and Decency
Codo Yagari Yulai Federation Executor
http://yulaifederation.net
|

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
452
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
CONCORD will likely be as vigilant as ever in a purely reactive basis for this event. Security levels come with significant costs for both the sovereignty holder and CONCORD itself, and any increases would come with an increase to that cost. Considering Jita's importance, there is merit to raising that level, but I worry about the implications of setting that sort of precedent.
Should we carry the tax burden of higher security level simply because a system experiences higher piracy? Should 'highway bottleneck' systems such as Uedama and Niarja be increased in security level? Should we further expand the purview of CONCORD into high traffic low-security systems such as Tama, Amamake, or the Rancer pocket? All of these systems have experienced consistently high rates of piracy. |

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
You place entirely too much trust in CONCORD to keep you safe. |

Lucius Vindictus
Viziam Amarr Empire
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
How often do pirates and terrorists have the decency to announce their attacks in advance? Anyone who still doesn't prepare needs a lesson instead of special protection. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar White-Lotus
255
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 12:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lucius raises an entirely valid point. The Goons will be attacking capsuleer targets, and they've announced it well in advance. If the capsuleers who usually frequent Jita clear out or simply stay docked, there won't be anything for the Goons to burn.
You can bet only one percent of the people in Jita will actually take precautions though. |

Lyn Farel
Kitzless
259
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 12:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Even if I do not really think that CONCORD will do anything specific on the matter, I fully approve the content of the letter.
Katrina Oniseki wrote:CONCORD will likely be as vigilant as ever in a purely reactive basis for this event. Security levels come with significant costs for both the sovereignty holder and CONCORD itself, and any increases would come with an increase to that cost. Considering Jita's importance, there is merit to raising that level, but I worry about the implications of setting that sort of precedent.
Should we carry the tax burden of higher security level simply because a system experiences higher piracy? Should 'highway bottleneck' systems such as Uedama and Niarja be increased in security level? Should we further expand the purview of CONCORD into high traffic low-security systems such as Tama, Amamake, or the Rancer pocket? All of these systems have experienced consistently high rates of piracy.
It is always a question of investment. More tax invests to develop specific areas or bolstering economy, or doing nothing. Invest more for a few day in terms of security and you help Jita to produce more wealth.
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:You place entirely too much trust in CONCORD to keep you safe.
Until now I do not see any particular reason to complain for high security areas like Jita.
Lucius Vindictus wrote:How often do pirates and terrorists have the decency to announce their attacks in advance? Anyone who still doesn't prepare needs a lesson instead of special protection.
Rek Jaiga wrote:Lucius raises an entirely valid point. The Goons will be attacking capsuleer targets, and they've announced it well in advance. If the capsuleers who usually frequent Jita clear out or simply stay docked, there won't be anything for the Goons to burn.
You can bet only one percent of the people in Jita will actually take precautions though.
This assumes that everyone is knowlegeable of the fact, which is far from being the case. Thinking otherwise is pure utopy. Also, the economical consequences still remain.
And eventually, ethics. |

Lucius Vindictus
Viziam Amarr Empire
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:This assumes that everyone is knowlegeable of the fact, which is far from being the case. Thinking otherwise is pure utopy. Also, the economical consequences still remain.
A barbarian Horde is a hard thing to miss, even without the luxury of a publicly announcement. And the economical consequences shouldn't be all bad. A massacre can be good for business. |

Silas Vitalia
Nobilta Nera
242
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rek Jaiga wrote:
You can bet only one percent of the people in Jita will actually take precautions though.
You can also bet only 1% of capsuleers care about their antics.
|

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Rek Jaiga wrote:
You can bet only one percent of the people in Jita will actually take precautions though.
You can also bet only 1% of capsuleers care about their antics.
I'd wager that the number's a bit higher than 1%, Silas.
Once you take into account those who care about their antics in a reactive sense, after they've been the victim of it. |

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Codo Yagari wrote:Hail Panajda Paukonsuo / Concord.
This letter is a query if Concord plans to increase security in the Jita solarsystem based on the threats of the major pirate organisation "Goonswarm" that they will "Burn Jita" on 28th April YC114? Considering experiences in the past involving suicide attacks etc, it would seem a very good idea to do this. Have you considered to flag the entire Goonswarm pirate organization as Outlaws prior to the event?
Thankyou for your response.
Honour and Decency
Codo Yagari Yulai Federation Executor
We are a sovereign entity, it would be unusual for CONCORD to outlaw a sovereign state as that would be beyond its scope. Whether your particular organization views us as pirates (which I suspect you do) is meaningless to CONCORD as your organization has no official authority to act above sovereigns. The Official Non-Official Goonswarm Federation |

Lyn Farel
Kitzless
259
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lucius Vindictus wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:This assumes that everyone is knowlegeable of the fact, which is far from being the case. Thinking otherwise is pure utopy. Also, the economical consequences still remain. A barbarian Horde is a hard thing to miss, even without the luxury of a publicly announcement. And the economical consequences shouldn't be all bad. A massacre can be good for business.
It is also okay not to build any safeguards or walls on catwalks or in magrail stations, because a pit or railroads are hard to miss ? |

Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
516
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have it on good authority that the answer is "no" |

ValentinaDLM
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
485
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 21:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rumor has it capsuleers catering to industrialists and miners are setting up an alternate trade hub at Amamake top belt this on that weekend. From my understanding you goto top belt message heretic army with what you want and those friendly delivery people will come supply you with what you need. This avoids the dangers with docking and undocking that make Jita so unsafe. |

Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
141
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:Rumor has it capsuleers catering to industrialists and miners are setting up an alternate trade hub at Amamake top belt this on that weekend. From my understanding you goto top belt message heretic army with what you want and those friendly delivery people will come supply you with what you need. This avoids the dangers with docking and undocking that make Jita so unsafe.
Apparently your time with the meat drones totally depleted your humor implants.  What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |

Halete
Teraa Matar White-Lotus
93
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote:Rumor has it capsuleers catering to industrialists and miners are setting up an alternate trade hub at Amamake top belt this on that weekend. From my understanding you goto top belt message heretic army with what you want and those friendly delivery people will come supply you with what you need. This avoids the dangers with docking and undocking that make Jita so unsafe.
This would probably have been a heck of a lot funnier if you hadn't chosen a system a hair's length away from Rens. Remembers, fly Frigates - Capsuleers are more tenacious than baseliner crews.-á |

Caellach Marellus
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
519
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 08:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leeroy McJenkins wrote:Codo Yagari wrote:Hail Panajda Paukonsuo / Concord.
This letter is a query if Concord plans to increase security in the Jita solarsystem based on the threats of the major pirate organisation "Goonswarm" that they will "Burn Jita" on 28th April YC114? Considering experiences in the past involving suicide attacks etc, it would seem a very good idea to do this. Have you considered to flag the entire Goonswarm pirate organization as Outlaws prior to the event?
Thankyou for your response.
Honour and Decency
Codo Yagari Yulai Federation Executor We are a sovereign entity, it would be unusual for CONCORD to outlaw a sovereign state as that would be beyond its scope. Whether your particular organization views us as pirates (which I suspect you do) is meaningless to CONCORD as your organization has no official authority to act above sovereigns.
Sovereign entity or not, you'll be in their jurisdiction.
Still I expect them to stick to their Mandate, should anyone find themselves acting out of line they will be dealt with. Sadly shooting on a hunch and asking questions later, even when it's a damn big hunch is not their M.O. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |

Kikia Truzhari
Teraa Matar White-Lotus
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 14:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:CONCORD will likely be as vigilant as ever in a purely reactive basis for this event. Security levels come with significant costs for both the sovereignty holder and CONCORD itself, and any increases would come with an increase to that cost. Considering Jita's importance, there is merit to raising that level, but I worry about the implications of setting that sort of precedent.
Should we carry the tax burden of higher security level simply because a system experiences higher piracy? Should 'highway bottleneck' systems such as Uedama and Niarja be increased in security level? Should we further expand the purview of CONCORD into high traffic low-security systems such as Tama, Amamake, or the Rancer pocket? All of these systems have experienced consistently high rates of piracy.
Yes. |

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 17:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Leeroy McJenkins wrote:Codo Yagari wrote:Hail Panajda Paukonsuo / Concord.
This letter is a query if Concord plans to increase security in the Jita solarsystem based on the threats of the major pirate organisation "Goonswarm" that they will "Burn Jita" on 28th April YC114? Considering experiences in the past involving suicide attacks etc, it would seem a very good idea to do this. Have you considered to flag the entire Goonswarm pirate organization as Outlaws prior to the event?
Thankyou for your response.
Honour and Decency
Codo Yagari Yulai Federation Executor We are a sovereign entity, it would be unusual for CONCORD to outlaw a sovereign state as that would be beyond its scope. Whether your particular organization views us as pirates (which I suspect you do) is meaningless to CONCORD as your organization has no official authority to act above sovereigns. Sovereign entity or not, you'll be in their jurisdiction. Still I expect them to stick to their Mandate, should anyone find themselves acting out of line they will be dealt with. Sadly shooting on a hunch and asking questions later, even when it's a damn big hunch is not their M.O.
And we would be expected to be treated like anyone else in CONCORD's jurisdiction. To say that an entire entity should be outlawed because of what they might do in the future is ludicrous, CONCORD has no authority to punish any person or group of persons without an actual criminal act.
Furthermore Mr. Yagari and his organization have no standing to make such a demand on CONCORD. We do not recognize the Yulai Federation as having any official legitimacy when it comes to declaring "pirate organizations" let alone what he's asking for here.
If the Yulai Federation has an issue with Goonswarm Federation, I suggest they gather what fleets they may have and deal with us themselves.
The Official Non-Official Goonswarm Federation |

Kalaratiri
Skadi's Call Defiant Legacy
136
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 18:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Leeroy McJenkins wrote: If the Yulai Federation has an issue with Goonswarm Federation, I suggest they gather what fleets they may have and deal with us themselves.
This, I would actually pay to see. |

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 18:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep! |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
856
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 18:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep! You do know that YF doesn't actually live in Jita or Yulai, or even in Concord-patrolled space, right? They live out in Providence.
They're just soapboxing here for name-dropping and attention. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |

Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
517
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 18:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep!
It would be live a day late. |

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 19:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep! You do know that YF doesn't actually live in Jita or Yulai, or even in Concord-patrolled space, right? They live out in Providence. They're just soapboxing here for name-dropping and attention.
Afraid I've never had the pleasure of hearing of them previous to this. Quite ironic, the name, I suppose.
Hello, Myxx. I guess they could have put in the wardec when they posted this thread and they would be ready for it. Instead, they have decided to rely on CONCORD. A shame! |

Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
517
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 19:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep! You do know that YF doesn't actually live in Jita or Yulai, or even in Concord-patrolled space, right? They live out in Providence. They're just soapboxing here for name-dropping and attention. Afraid I've never had the pleasure of hearing of them previous to this. Quite ironic, the name, I suppose. Hello, Myxx. I guess they could have put in the wardec when they posted this thread and they would be ready for it. Instead, they have decided to rely on CONCORD. A shame! Anyone who gets popped at this point, after all of the publicity, and all of the warnings to stay away from jita this weekend probably deserves it for their ignorance. Ohwell.
Edit: You know who the real winners from this are? People who manufacture stuff. Yet, from what I've seen, these are the same people that complain about it.
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep! You do know that YF doesn't actually live in Jita or Yulai, or even in Concord-patrolled space, right? They live out in Providence. They're just soapboxing here for name-dropping and attention. [Needs citation]
Some people don't actually live in nullsec, they just have jumpclones out there. |

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
856
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 19:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:If they put in the wardec right now, it might very well be live by the time Goonswarm shows up on their doorstep! You do know that YF doesn't actually live in Jita or Yulai, or even in Concord-patrolled space, right? They live out in Providence. They're just soapboxing here for name-dropping and attention. [Needs citation] Some people don't actually live in nullsec, they just have jumpclones out there. http://yulaifederation.net/forum/index.php?topic=537.msg1527#msg1527
Quote:We currently operate and work closely with other NRDS alliances, particularly in the 0.0 sec region Providence, but also in high sec and elsewhere. We have a joint communications network and daily regular antipiracy combat operations, as well as civil industrial operations etc.
Additional support in the form of their kill record. Most of their engagements are in Providence, including losses of both combat and ISK-earning ship fits, which is indicative of actually living out there. They also hold sovereignty in four systems in Providence.
Then there's anecdotal experience of my going out there and killing them / being killed by them. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |

Muck Raker
Gutter Press
114
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 19:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Myxx wrote: Some people don't actually live in nullsec, they just have jumpclones out there.
there's anecdotal experience of my going out there and killing them / being killed by them.
Myxx in getting it wrong nonshocker.
Capt Blackshell, Myxx's understanding of reality is more warped than the Caldari say mine is. Rumours, Wars, Rumours of Wars, Wars of Rumours! |

Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
517
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 20:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Muck Raker wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Myxx wrote: Some people don't actually live in nullsec, they just have jumpclones out there.
there's anecdotal experience of my going out there and killing them / being killed by them. Myxx in getting it wrong nonshocker. Capt Blackshell, Myxx's understanding of reality is more warped than the Caldari say mine is.
So says the proxy 
|

Lyn Farel
Kitzless
259
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 12:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Leeroy McJenkins wrote: And we would be expected to be treated like anyone else in CONCORD's jurisdiction. To say that an entire entity should be outlawed because of what they might do in the future is ludicrous, CONCORD has no authority to punish any person or group of persons without an actual criminal act.
They indeed have no authority for this.... Until they decide otherwise.
Also, records of Goonswarm criminal acts in empire space are already legion. Your argument is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they will probably do nothing. |

Muck Raker
Gutter Press
117
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 13:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Myxx wrote: So says the proxy
Oh yes, I had forgotten. I'm actually Koronakesh. Or was it Graelyn ? or Morwen ? Maybe it was Gottii ? Or Verone. Yes, Verone, he's behind Gutter Press, obviously. So many diverse interests that man has. Rumours, Wars, Rumours of Wars, Wars of Rumours! |

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 14:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Leeroy McJenkins wrote: And we would be expected to be treated like anyone else in CONCORD's jurisdiction. To say that an entire entity should be outlawed because of what they might do in the future is ludicrous, CONCORD has no authority to punish any person or group of persons without an actual criminal act.
They indeed have no authority for this.... Until they decide otherwise. Also, records of Goonswarm criminal acts in empire space are already legion. Your argument is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they will probably do nothing.
Can I see these records?  The Official Non-Official Goonswarm Federation |
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