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Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:55:00 - [1] Both ferox and moa need more pg to be able to fit things up. Even the eagle lacks pg :( The slot lay outs and bonuses are okay ,but when you want to fit these ships up for their intended role you will see it is impossible due to lack of powergrid , and if you fit fitting modules these ships will do less than acceptable dps. So eighter give them + bonus for dmg(5%/lvl) or more powergrid. I see no reason why these ships should have much less pg than the other (especially gallente) ones as these are gunboats too ,but instead of blasters these need rails, and rails need even more pg/cpu than blasters. Oh and dont come with that the caldari ships dont need mwd,they need mwd as much as other factions ships.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:34:00 - [2] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? Possibly no ,he is just those idiots who thinks they know the truth,but cant proove anything.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:18:00 - [3] Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 25/02/2009 21:51:10 When did it break???? And their "power" is their ability to hit at insane distances and maintain a great tank because they don't need tracking computers.............. Nano it, put a buffer in, damage mods and rails and have fun plinking out at 100 km. The things I would do if the minmatar had a range bonus like the caldari do............... You should stop posting. nano it?? omg... dont need tracking comps??? then its range wont be better than any other bc and its dmg will be still low. Actually the brutix is a better sniper. And pls tell me how do you fit tank +250mm rails?
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Stalina Like the nighthawk needs HAM's and MWD? Right? [Ferox, blasterox] oh yeah brutix fit .... If i would want to use blasters i would use the brutix, is there any reason to use ferox over a brutix in close range?? Brutix --> close range Ferox ---> long range got it?
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:27:00 - [5] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Ferox is fine tbh. 250mm T2 rails snipeing out to 130km. Park it 100km away from your BS blob and plink away at small fry swarming friendly battleships. 200mm T2 rails with a modest buffer tank and some usefull EWAR. Can even squeak in a gang mod. Who primaries a ferox early? The problem in most players eyes is the ferox doesn't do OMGWTFBBQ damage. Oh i cannot decide which one to use the ferox with 126km opt +170dps or the brutix with 84km opt +263 dps +25m3 more drone . It is so hard to choose....
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Furb Killer Where the ferox can shoot at 80km with faction instead of t2 ammo, resulting in 4 times better tracking. I have this feeling someone here thinks a ferox has 5 turret hardpoints, it has 6. Sure it can for 140dps and tracking is still low for hitting most ceptors.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:40:00 - [7] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 25/02/2009 22:40:45 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw the ferox is fine. its made to be a support sniper and its great in this role. 180 dps at 151 KM. Lies. or fail fit without an mwd.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.27 13:45:00 - [8] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 27/02/2009 13:45:09 Originally by: Lilith Velkor While ~250 dps arent exactly stellar, having the option for mid-range sniping isnt useless in a well-rounded gang. But it isnt 250dps it is 170dps with 6x250mm rails +2 magfs t2. If you want to use antimatter with rails then you should fit blasters. 170dps is nothing ,even some frigs have more ...
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.27 20:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Lilith Velkor You're forgetting drones, I've used 5x warrior II and 3x 150s / 3x 200s in my fitting. 225 dps incl. drones (244 with hobos) with 30km range on the rails, 253 if you go with antimatter which clearly isnt really worth it. Pulse harbinger 450dps at same range +drones :P
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 22:43:33 Originally by: Naomi Knight Pulse harbinger 450dps at same range +drones :P So? Does that pulse harbinger have a warfare link on, and how much damage can it soak? How much damage can it rep back per second ontop of its buffer? Yes it can fit 1 warfare link easily,but i dont think gank bc-s need warfare link, command ships are much better for them. It has 34k ehp no repair, why do you need repair btw it wont save your ship? And 50m3 drones ,twice than the ferox has. And no rigs. How much your ferox has ,while still doing 250dps at 35km? And dont forget the mwd.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.28 08:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Joe Logoffski Edited by: Joe Logoffski on 28/02/2009 02:28:59 Edited by: Joe Logoffski on 28/02/2009 02:26:58 Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes it can fit 1 warfare link easily,but i dont think gank bc-s need warfare link, command ships are much better for them. It has 34k ehp no repair, why do you need repair btw it wont save your ship? And 50m3 drones ,twice than the ferox has. And no rigs. How much your ferox has ,while still doing 250dps at 35km? And dont forget the mwd. It has MWD ofc, 120k EHP, 312 dps passively tanked across the board. You might realize it would have killed your harbinger with its silly dps before you even managed to strip 15% of its shield if it has a tackler to keep you there, as you are barely able to get past its passive recharge. You see how useful a rep tank is there, the low dps Ferox would eat your whole buffer in 3 1/2 minutes, while you'd need 13 minutes to drop its tank. Only 25m¦ drones, but thats a case of target selection, your harbinger would be better against cruiser and up, while the Ferox in question is rather limited to frigates and weak cruisers (or lolfit BCs ). But its a gang ship anyway. I'm using rigs on it though, and imo a harbinger should as well. 34k EHP is laughable at best compared to what harbinger is capable of buffer-wise (my cane easily beats that without any rig while doing 200 dps more without effort), just as 450 dps is ridiculously low for a harb. Posting on alt as main sub just ran out... Could you just post the fit? Ive tried to do everything on the ferox what you aimed for but it just doesnt ads up. So you are lieing or made an error somewhere. You are wrong. First it is not 1vs1(especially as you suggested putting gang war module on the ship-->at least 10ppl gang to worth it),so your ferox would melt much faster if 5+ ships shoot it minimizing its recharge ability ,what is neglectible due to this. The rigs you would put on these ships cost 14m/each that is 40m for the 3 rigs, my whole harbinger costs less than 40m after insurance. and it has a point + scrable or web +50m3 drones which wasnt included in the dps. Btw dps is much more important than tank especially in gang. Your crane would do this dmg at 1km ,not at the range of 35km.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore But ferox only has 6 turret slots while the brutix has 7 ,that is a huge difference.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore But ferox only has 6 turret slots while the brutix has 7 ,that is a huge difference. NO .. not at all!!! You are not considering the "grid problem". You are supposing that the brutix can easilly put 7x neutron blastersand the ferox just 6, but this in unpractical( for both ships). Most brutix setups downgrade at least partially to ion/electrons, to be able to put that damned 7th gun. And as i said before: Since brutix is an armour tanker it have less PG for guns than the ferox, so the one more gun it can put in theory, can be practically used only if you downgrade all ( almost) the turrets. Note: im not saying that have 7 turrets is bad, im just saying that the difference between ferox and brutix is quite ephemeral because of PG restriction. For blasters neutron --> ion is a minimall loss in range for rails 250mm -->200m is a huge setback for you optimal. Thats why you should aim for fitting 250mm rails not because of the dmg but optimal(which is a ferox should be good at). So brutix easily fit with 6*250mm rails+mwd ,while the ferox need 1 rcu to fit these, and your tank is still nowhere. Most rail ships can even fit a tank because they need sensor booster+tracking comp+ dmg mods in the low slots. Thats why your argument that the brutix needs more pg because of it is an armor tanker is wrong, ferox cant fit any tank at all. If you want to use the ferox with 200mm rails you are much better to fly a brutix with 250mm rails. Much better dmg ,same range, more drones and better overall ship stats. Thats why brutix is better than the ferox even in snipe range ,what shouldnt happen. Ferox needs a boost to be clearly better than the brutix in snipe range , just like the brutix is much better with blasters than the ferox.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.03 13:45:00 - [14] Yes brutix is better sniper than the ferox. Oh and how can you snipe from bs snipe range (170km) with the ferox?you cant.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.04 00:46:00 - [15] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 00:48:05 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 00:47:25 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 00:46:42 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes brutix is better sniper than the ferox. Oh and how can you snipe from bs snipe range (170km) with the ferox?you cant. Even with FOUR TRACKING COMPUTERS RUNNING OPTIMAL SCRIPTS the Brutix maxes out at 95 optimal, 15 falloff. That's 0 DPS at 125km. The Ferox with NO TRACKING COMPUTERS hits 97 optimal and 15 falloff, meaning that without any tracking mods the Ferox will outdamage the Brutix at 125km. Add the same four optimal range tracking computers and you have 143km optimal and 15 falloff. The best possible range using all available slots and focusing on nothing else for a Brutix is 95km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 141km. The same principle applied to the Ferox gives 143km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 189km. It should also be noted that due to the Ferox having a resist bonus, it also has higher EHP in this same crazy pure sniper configuration. If we scale these setups back to try and balance range, DPS and EHP, the Ferox will win every single time. The Brutix only takes over once you drop within 75km of your targets. 1,Why are u obsessed with 125km optimal? Is it a goal if you reach it your ship is awesome if not it sux? 2,Why is that 125km better than the 90km for brutix? 3,Ferox more ehp?Oh that is false and a lie. I always use a damage controll it is the best mod for buffer tank. When you fit it ,the brutix will have more ehp than the ferox , strange isnt it? Even without the dc the ferox only has 1.5k more ehp, it is neglectible. 4,Scale back to where? whats the point ,to bring out ferox better ? post your ferox fit and I will post a brutix fit which is better. 5,You will spend more shooting time sub 90km than between 90km and 125km. Especially when roaming or breaking enemy gate camp.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 12:05:03 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Originally by: Naomi Knight 1,Why are u obsessed with 125km optimal? Is it a goal if you reach it your ship is awesome if not it sux? Because that is the maximum possible range for a Brutix. This is an ad hominem; I'm not "obsessing" over a specific range, merely demonstrating why the Ferox's range bonus is doing it's job perfectly. At 125km the Brutix becomes useless, whereas the Ferox can still be configured to hit at beyond this range. Quote: 2,Why is that 125km better than the 90km for brutix? Sniper battleships will be between 150 & 200km from the gate. If you're at 90km, you're on your own with no support. If you're at 130km, you're both far enough from the snipers to assist with rails using high damage ammo if and when the snipers get dropped on, but close enough to also receive drone assistance/assist with drones. At 90km, the time it would take your drones to move in to assist (or vice versa) is much longer, and you're almost equidistant to the tacklers and snipers. 3, This is a straw man: I did not say the fit's included a damage control. If a damage control is your only tank, the Brutix has more EHP. If both rig for HP using a DC as their only tank module, the Ferox comes out on top again. Swings and roundabouts. Quote: 4,Scale back to where? whats the point ,to bring out ferox better ? post your ferox fit and I will post a brutix fit which is better. 5,You will spend more shooting time sub 90km than between 90km and 125km. Especially when roaming or breaking enemy gate camp. The purpose of the Ferox is to operate outwith the ranges other ships can, in other words between 125km & 175km. Fit appropriately! [Ferox, 250mm Rails] 3Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II 3Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 2Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 6250mm Railgun II, Spike M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile 3Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 1,So ferox is good because it can shoot farther than the brutix,even if that + optimal doesnt help it at all? As Noisrevbus said ferox doesn't get anything from its optimal bonust thats why it is flawled. 2, And how will you get to your 130km spot? Ask someone to make it for u, especailly as your fit doesnt have mwd? The brutix can warp to 70-100km to gate if there is no bubble or warp to other sniper hacs like the zealot or muninn or just 70km on sniper bs to work as an anti tackler. Much more possiblity than your ferox has. Oh and if your ferox is not farther than 100km then its optimal bonus is meaningless. Guess what, my brutix wont be primary,and possibly no enemy tacklers will come close to me,their targets are the battleships in a group not the lone brutix somewhere in the field. So possibly you wont need any assistance at all. And useing antimatter with your rails against tacklers?your setup will have 38km optimal 311dps the brutix with uranium has 35km opt 378dps, much better. Oh and the brutix can change to antimatter too ,yeah 24km opt. but 454dps ,see the difference? 3,Why would you put anything other than a damage contol up? and about rigs... omg 4,The range is not a goal,doing dmg to targets is your job, if you fly a damage support ship, by doing it from farther you wont do your job better. 5, If you want to use your rails in falloff range you are doing it wrong,its already low dps will be even smaller , thus you would be better off fling a rifter or other t1 crap frig. And your fit : -it has no mwd--> fail -it uses 3 rigs , each one costs around 14m isk, and only has a just noticable better ehp than without rigs ,making the use of rigs completly meaningless. Compare it to my brutix: [Brutix, noob setup] Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II 3Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II 2Tracking Computer II Sensor Booster II 7250mm Railgun
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:30:00 - [17] OMG all I mean ALL your senteces are wrong and false. Could somebody point out to him how stupid his post is ? He just wont listen to me... Even his sentences contradict to his other sentence some line over them. Jesus.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.07 23:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Because tier one != tier two. Comparisons between tiers fail; compare the laser Ferox to the Prophecy/Brutix/Cyclone and then come back to this discussion. Lol . Ferox is good because, if you use pulses it has better stats than the other tier 1 bcs? You cant be this stupid...
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 01:12:00 - [19] It only says : prophecy sux cyclone too , fitting ferox with pulses is stupid, you can shoot for like 1.5 mins, oh comeon that's nothing.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 09:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: It only says : prophecy sux cyclone too , fitting ferox with pulses is stupid, you can shoot for like 1.5 mins, oh comeon that's nothing. Or it says the Brutix is overpowered in a specific role, and you haven't yet figured out how to use your Ferox properly? No. The brutix is good the other 3 tier 1 bc need boost. And a brutix is much more useable than the ferox even when rail fitted.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:12:00 - [21] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: No. The brutix is good the other 3 tier 1 bc need boost. And a brutix is much more useable than the ferox even when rail fitted. Repeating this over and over like a mantra doesn't make it any more accurate. It is you who are repeating that : ferox can hit enemy at 150km so it is fine statement.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:22:00 - [22] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 08/03/2009 14:21:56 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: It is you who are repeating that : ferox can hit enemy at 150km so it is fine statement. Am I? I think you have a bit of the old "selective comprehension" going on there... I've put down several different reasons why the Ferox doesn't need special attention. On the other hand, all I've seen you really post is "WAAAH! I can't figure out how to fit a ship that isn't min/maxed!" So you say i should fit the ferox like your fit? because you havent wrote anything else about it. And everybody can tell you that setup is a fail. No mwd ,3 rigs ....
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 15:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: So you say i should fit the ferox like your fit? because you havent wrote anything else about it. And everybody can tell you that setup is a fail. No mwd ,3 rigs .... Let me spell it out for you, as you're clearly not very good at the whole interpretation "thing": The Ferox is fine. This is demonstrated by comparing unbonused weapon systems on the Ferox against the same weapon systems on other tier one battlecruiers. This leads to only one possible conclusion that explains why you're convinced that the Brutix is so much better; The problem is in fact with Railguns. The demonstration was wrong, so it doesnt support your Ferox is fine motto.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 19:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: The demonstration was wrong, so it doesnt support your Ferox is fine motto. Repeating the same tired thing page after page doesn't make it any more accurate. You failed to demonstrate your own arguments, and have the audacity to come out with rubbish like this? You do so make my lol Naomi. I've proved how the brutix is better then the ferox up to 100km. The ferox only better between 100-130km ,over 130km the ferox become useless , nearly 0 dps. And shooting at 100-130km doesnt better than shooting 80-100km you cant realy use that + optimal to your advantage.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: I've proved how the brutix is better then the ferox up to 100km. The ferox only better between 100-130km ,over 130km the ferox become useless , nearly 0 dps. And shooting at 100-130km doesnt better than shooting 80-100km you cant realy use that + optimal to your advantage. Don't make me tell you again why the Ferox can hit 150km away. What you've failed to realise Naomi is that the comparison you are making is true of every single tier one battlecruiers versus the Brutix. The Ferox cannot be imbalanced if it compares favourably - and indeed it does - to the majority of ships in it's class. Given this fact, there's only one outcome: The Brutix is the problem and the Ferox is fine. It can shoot at 150km and do like 60dps? Thats right it will have around 60dps+ minimal tank. So your conclusion is wrong, it is the brutix which is fine and the other 3 tier 1 bcs are weak.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: So your conclusion is wrong, it is the brutix which is fine and the other 3 tier 1 bcs are weak. 25% are right and 75% are wrong? Your logic is astounding. So if you look only at stealthbombers they are all right because more or less all are the same?

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