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Nikolus Wrench
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Posted - 2009.02.26 05:56:00 -
[1]
Searched forums for some sort of explination how "Jet Can Minning" works. Could someone explain?
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Amarrbone
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Posted - 2009.02.26 06:01:00 -
[2]
Jet Canning is simple really. It is useful on any mining ship that doesn't have a large cargo capacity, but it does have risks.
Basically you fit your ship for optimal mining. When your laser cycles complete you jettison the ore into a floating cargo container which has 27,500m3 cargo space. After you put as much ore into it as you want, you then get an industrial ship, warp back to the cargo container, and scoop it into the Indy.
The major draw back to this method is that anyone can come and take away the ore. This is can flipping. You can spent 20-30 minutes filling up the can, then someone can come along, take your stuff, then you have to decide if you want to risk PvP to try and get it back.
Ideally jet canning is best done with a buddy who can scoop into an indy as soon as you jettison the ore.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.26 06:21:00 -
[3]
Remeber that everything you do in is has some risk vs reward. You're getting the fastes ming for your situation without any form of security or teamwork so your risk is maximised. Someone coming along to grab your ore isn't griefing, he isn't neccesarily 13 or is a baby murdering sociopath. He simply found something he was able to pick and did just that. The fact that he COULD grab your ore is YOUR fault as you didn't bother to put in the effort to secure your assets.
Apart from that cans dissapear after 1-2 hours so make sure you empty it before that.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Nikolus Wrench
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Posted - 2009.02.26 06:27:00 -
[4]
Great information. From other post and questions it sounds like team work is the only way to make it in Eve. Thanks for replying to this post.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.26 06:34:00 -
[5]
If you're going to try jetcan mining with a friend flying a hauler, try this on for size: when you jettison the first load of ore, bookmark the can. Then drag the bookmark from the People & Places window into your hold, then drag it to the can.
Your friend can now scoop up ore with gay abandon, with the bookmark staying in place to keep the can alive. Once all the goods are gone from the can, the can will pop. You have to wait some time (2 minutes, IIRC) before you can jettison another can so try not to pop the can.
Also, keep the can window open. If someone flips your can, you'll be able to tell immediately because the window will close.
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Aerik Erwi
Caldari Erwi-Sora Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.26 14:20:00 -
[6]
To keep the can from despawning should you move all the ore out when using either a buddy or alt hauler, leave a piece of junk loot in it. My method uses a second account as a hauler, moving ore from mining ship to can to hauler without pause. If somebody can flip my can before I can remove my junk loot, then they got a free ammo charge or whatever. __________________________________________ "I didn't do it, wasn't me, can't prove nuthin'" |
Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.26 14:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aerik Erwi To keep the can from despawning should you move all the ore out when using either a buddy or alt hauler, leave a piece of junk loot in it. My method uses a second account as a hauler, moving ore from mining ship to can to hauler without pause. If somebody can flip my can before I can remove my junk loot, then they got a free ammo charge or whatever.
As stated above, a bookmark is better than junk loot as its completely worthless and cost-free.
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
Amarrbone
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:52:00 -
[8]
The can will pop after 2 hours even if you keep junk loot or a bookmark in it. They only have a 2 hour lifespan.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 26/02/2009 22:34:12
I team mine with two accounts. A miner and a hauler in a squad together.
I keep a bookmark in the hold of my miner and jettison it as soon as I get into position and turn on the strip miners. I use a book mark for two reasons. 1) I can make one on the spot; 2) they take up 0 space in my hold.
I then name the can with the current time. Jet cans last 2 hours, so in a little under 2 hours I will pull the bookmark to pop the old can, then jettison it again to create a new one.
The hauler pulls up to the jet can but doesn't open it yet. I keep 5 Giant Secure Containers in my hold and (if I haven't already done it while warping in) I open all of those so they are in one tabbed mini window. Then I open the jet can. If it opens as part of the tabbed mini window I drag it off to the side.
Now, as soon as I have some ore in my miners hold I move it over to the jet can and them move it from that into one of the Industrial's GSC's. GSC's take up 3,000m3 of space but hold 3,900m3 of stuff. I have all the low slots for the industrial filled with cargo hold expander II's and have faction Industrial 5 trained. If I'm in a .9 or 1.0 space I mount a miner on the industrial which also carries a salvager by default (in case I run across a wreck while traveling). In .8 space or below I mount a tractor beam and the salvager to pull in and salvage the wrecks created by the miner's drones.
When the industrial is full it goes back the the base and dumps it off then comes back. The only time I've had ore stolen from me was when my industrial was on the way back - so - I don't leave ore in the can. Which means I stop mining if my miner's hold gets full. Mostly that isn't a problem, especially if the miner is a Hulk, as the Indy is usually back or well on his way.
Now here - this is one of the reasons for moving ore out of the miner and into the industrial as fast as it accumulates. If you wait and move a big chunk of it - then you are more likely to have a lot left over that he can't carry. If you move it over as fast as it accumulates - then the miner's hold is probably nearly empty all the time and he has the maximum amount of time left before he needs to stop mining or move some ore. What kind of risks you want to take are up to you. These things vary with how crowded the system is and how well you know the other people in it. Also - if you're mining mission space in an uncrowded system you are much less likely to have interlopers as it takes more talent to scan you down then just warping through the belts. Also, you can try and watch for scan probes on your scanner. If you see scan probes then vary your procedures. In any case - this is all a lot safer than pure jet can mining.
If someone does come into your belt - do a Look at them. Move your POV around to the stern of their ship and see where they are going. Watch them for a good long while as some of them will try and lull you into a false sense of security by pretending to mine themselves - and then make a move on your can. If you see them move (either their distance changes in the over view or you are still watching them) see where they go. If they are headed for your can - pull the bookmark and pop it. Don't trash talk them. Just go on mining until your miners hold is full. Most of them - having seen that you are alert - will go bother someone else if you don't say something to **** them off. Once they leave - jettison your bookmark again and name it with the new time.
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:40:00 -
[10]
Named cans are always bring me joy and make me focus on that belt FIRST, if there's more targets around. Just saying.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:53:00 -
[11]
Just as a guide - the mining frigates and cruisers can be set up for maximum production (ie: m3 per hour), at which point they will not fit two cycles worth of ore in their hold. In a frigate or cruiser, you'll need to stagger your lasers so they don't all end up trying to put ore in the hold at the same time. That means in an Osprey you'll be dragging ore to the can every 20 seconds, while in a Bantam you'll be dragging ore to the can every 30 seconds.
Your hauler will not be able to warp to station and back in this time, so there is a window of at least a minute during which you are going to have to commit to shutting down your lasers or putting ore into the can.
When you do get can flipped (the can flippers will even flip a bookmark, just to tempt you), the best course of action is to turn off your lasers and walk away from the keyboard. Most can flippers will give up after a few minutes - the longest I've had one hang around for was about 10 minutes, until he finally realised that I was just going to park my Retriever and Iteron there in the belt and ignore him.
Oh, and one final thing - never ever leave your combat drones out to protect you from rat spawns. When you're mining, you have your mining drones out. When a belt rat spawns, you retrieve your mining drones and launch your combat drones, which will be set to "PASSIVE", and manually target the belt rat, and only then do you give the drones the command to attack.
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:56:00 -
[12]
If you are mining in a busy system with stations there I do not suggest jet can minning.
If you mine in a system that is not where you reprocess at I use the following techinque. I set a BM at a resonable distance, 200+ km, from the belt where I drop my cans at. Decreased efficiency but increased security.
Originally by: Tzar'rim Named cans are always bring me joy and make me focus on that belt FIRST, if there's more targets around. Just saying.
I then label them "Come and get me" Just kidding
If you ever decide to use this techinque just make sure that you do not set the BM in line with any celestial object or this will not be as secure since the can flipper can just get into a Interceptor and find the can with a little extra work.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:09:00 -
[13]
I warp in, see the can and either burn towards it or BM it, warp to the planet and back to the can in oh... 15 seconds?
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/02/2009 23:32:19 Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/02/2009 23:31:47
Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/02/2009 23:16:42 What keeps me from warping to your can?
If you scan me down while I am at the spot nothing is stopping you.
If you can't me find with a scan in the few seconds that I am there how do you warp to the can?
I tend to only spend a few seconds there and I do not warp there if someone is in the belt.
EDIT: Or can you warp to a can if you are within a certain distance of it? I should add that the BM's I lay down are off grid, I can not remeber how far that is , so if you can get them on the grid I guess you can get there.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:34:00 -
[15]
can is a warpable object so as long as it's further away than 150km I'll be there faster than you (as I'm in a fast nimble ship and you're in a miner). If it's not further but more than 75km I'll simply burn away from it at over 3km/s and then warp as I get to the 150km point. OR I'll simply BM it, then warp to the planet and then warp back to the BM. Takes about 20 seconds tops.
It's not really helping you :)
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Named cans are always bring me joy and make me focus on that belt FIRST, if there's more targets around. Just saying.
Since I've over used jet can's more than I've had pirates warp to them and flip them (never) the advantages of naming the can with the time far out weigh the possibility of attracting a pirate.
After all, the guy can still just bookmark my un-named can and do exactly the same thing.
One thing I did not mention before - was (as a miner) making sure you had at least two over view tabs. One with your standard bases and stargates in it - and the other with the rocks. That means going into your default settings and turning OFF Veldspar. If I need a new rock - I either grab one visually or flip to the Mining Tab just long enough to target one and then go back to my Standard View.
That way - I've got plenty of room in my Over View - uncluttered by rocks - to see if someone is coming into my belt.
After that it's just a matter of how alert or distracted I am. If I'm in a .8 or below system and having to deal with belt rats while trying to move my ore ... I might not be quick enough to pull the bookmark on someone warping right to it. But then - if I see someone I don't know - come into my belt - look around for a while and then warp off ... I'm usually more alert to the possibility he may just warp back. Pirates aren't the only ones who know you can warp right to a jet can. The thing is - you will usually NOT end up within 1500 meters of the can - which should give an alert miner time to pull his bookmark and pop the can - assuming he's not letting his ore lay around in it gathering space dust ...
The distraction issue - and the vulnerability it brings with it - is also why I mine in quiet systems. Not only do I have fewer pirates to worry about but less competition for the rocks as well.
Now - the thing I have had stolen - is loot from my wrecks. If I kill three rats with my drones that one tractor beam on the industrial can only pull them in so fast and ... the industrial's primary task is moving ore ... so the rats and their salvage come second. If some guy warps in and steals loot from my wrecks, since they're usually close by ... I'll pop my can and then just ignore him until he goes away. If my hold is full - I'll just warp the miner back to the base then come back and mine some more. If the guy makes it his personal business to harass me ... I'll probably just put my ships away and log into some other alt in a different part of New Eden - but that's never happened. Most pirates just want a fight so if you don't give them one - as long as you don't trash talk them - they'll just go looking for someone else who will.
*shrug*
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/02/2009 23:36:44 can is a warpable object so as long as it's further away than 150km I'll be there faster than you (as I'm in a fast nimble ship and you're in a miner). If it's not further but more than 75km I'll simply burn away from it at over 3km/s and then warp as I get to the 150km point. OR I'll simply BM it, then warp to the planet and then warp back to the BM. Takes about 20 seconds tops.
It's not really helping you :)
If you put the can outside the grid then that changes stuff, I can't probe for it. I might try and burn towards it or probe you as you're unloading, but that takes way too much effort and is not very efficient.
Interesting. You learn something new everyday. Well the technique has prevented me from getting flipped to this point. I guess I do not mine in systems that are frequented by flippers or I do not attract competent flippers
Also: One of these days I will take you up on your TS offer, just not getting on very frequently and I do not want to bother you if I am only on for a few minutes.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:54:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 27/02/2009 00:00:39 What it all boils down to is this; if you put in effort to think about security, you're not afk and you actually read/learned abit about EVE instead of just trying to optimise your mining yield for the past 3 months, you can be fairly sure you'll keep your assets.
If you're an autistic solo player unwilling/incapable of reading up on the game mechanics and fail to understand the very basics of the game OR you're just lazy you get to lose your stuff. And with a bit of luck (for me) you also lose your cool and end up losing more than just some ore worth a few 100k.
And to give you an idea of how stupid people can be, here's a nice one from not too long ago. You'll notice concord on the killmail but here's the thing; annoying/harassing people to a point where they just do stupid stuff is a good a tactic as any, and actually is very well suited for my line of work. I'm a pro at being annoying /proud
2009.02.16 20:53:00
Quote: Victim: xxx Corp: xxx Alliance: xxx Faction: NONE Destroyed: Rattlesnake System: Anyed Security: 0.6 Damage Taken: 36883
Involved parties:
Name: CONCORD Police Commander / CONCORD Damage Done: 36883
Name: xxx Security: 1.1 Corp: xxx Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: xxx Weapon: Warp Disruptor II Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Large Shield Booster Raysere's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb True Sansha Cap Recharger Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dark Blood Cap Recharger Devastator Cruise Missile, Qty: 28 Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Qty: 3 Estamel's Modified Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Capacitor Control Circuit II, Qty: 2 Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 659 (Cargo) 'Integrated' Hammerhead, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I, Qty: 2 Core Defence Field Purger I
Dropped items:
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 56 Paradise Cruise Missile, Qty: 1490 (Cargo) Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 28 Devastator Cruise Missile, Qty: 618 (Cargo) Devastator Cruise Missile, Qty: 28 Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Qty: 3 'Integrated' Hammerhead, Qty: 4 (Drone Bay) Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 618 (Cargo) Small Tractor Beam I Paradise Cruise Missile, Qty: 28 Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Kanikara
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.27 00:24:00 -
[19]
Better options are group with an orca, or barring that mine in space where you can anchor a GSC and use it for transfer.
Both prevent the canflipping.
May have to set up a chain of GSCs if you don't have a buddy and just move between them in your cruiser/barge.
Once you get a hulk it's easily upgraded with cargo rigs for a decent cargo capacity that lets you mine and warp back to station.
All those options take out the risk for a little bit of headache at times.
The orca is the best bet, but expensive and skill intense with all the skills needed to really make it worth it.
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Aerik Erwi
Caldari Erwi-Sora Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tranka Verrane
Originally by: Aerik Erwi To keep the can from despawning should you move all the ore out when using either a buddy or alt hauler, leave a piece of junk loot in it. My method uses a second account as a hauler, moving ore from mining ship to can to hauler without pause. If somebody can flip my can before I can remove my junk loot, then they got a free ammo charge or whatever.
As stated above, a bookmark is better than junk loot as its completely worthless and cost-free.
I was referring to despawn when empty, but I like the BM idea and will definitely work on that method. __________________________________________ "I didn't do it, wasn't me, can't prove nuthin'" |
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:54:00 -
[21]
I find pretty stupid to get a friend/alt with a badger. I mean, he/you is losing lots of time.
You can fit 1laser in a indy ok but it gives out a ****ty yield.
If I had an alt, I would jetcan mining with both, and each some minutes I would bring a hauler with one of them. Yup it's a bit risky but reward is worth it.
IMO.
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Izae
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Posted - 2009.02.28 11:00:00 -
[22]
I think jet cans lasts for one hour, you have to rename it to make it stay for two hours. |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2009.02.28 11:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Also, keep the can window open. If someone flips your can, you'll be able to tell immediately because the window will close.
14 months in EVE and now you tell me that.
Originally by: Izae I think jet cans lasts for one hour, you have to rename it to make it stay for two hours.
That is a fable, like hitting the bottom of your beer glass with a silver spoon creates more beer. Cans stay for at least 1 hour in space, at 1.30 hours it gets tricky, after 2 they pop like wrecks do.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ms Delerium I find pretty stupid to get a friend/alt with a badger. I mean, he/you is losing lots of time.
My hulk fills its hold in 6 minutes. It takes me more than 6 minutes to warp to station, switch to the hauler, warp back to the mining spot, transfer the cargo, warp back to station, switch to the Hulk, warp back to the belt and start mining again.
Having someone else hauling doubles my productivity, before considering fleet bonuses. Add on to that the bonuses from having that hauler flying an Orca with mining gang links, and having the hauler alt becomes a very attractive proposition.
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JaseNZ
Gallente Tiny Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:23:00 -
[25]
I used the jet can mining trick once I realised that the jet can held so much heh. It came in so handy. If you can spare the slot, a tractor beam comes in handy as well, instead of being stuck within 1.5KM of the can to drop into it, then whatever range of your mining tools, you can just move along the belt, towing the can behind you.
And if like me back at the time, go back later in an Industrial, you don't need to fly right up to the can, you can fly to the bookmark, align to the station while you target and tractor the can, and once it's emptied into your hold, hit the dock button to go into warp.
Super handy when you turn up to 3-4 rats waiting for you just out of their weapons range heh. And if they do manage to get a few shots off at you, 10 seconds of shield boosting and you're good as new lol.
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:28:00 -
[26]
I'd say look into a corporation.
Eve uni (biased) would be a good start.
Plenty of miners there to help you, as well as others with different focuses (missions, trade, etc)
Some of us can and will assist, wouldn't be the first time I parked an Orca in a belt for the noobies to drop ore into for nothing but rat bounties and loot (just the cycle time link, salvager and tractor in high ; full tank fit though)
EVE University - Mining Fleet : Mining Specialist
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Chen Mubai
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Posted - 2009.03.02 11:57:00 -
[27]
We stoped using Jet Cans for belt mining months ago. It's a lot safer to use a Giant Secure Can (GSC) as a transfer point for someone flying a really big hauler, e.g. an Iteron 5. That way you can be a sure nobody will flip your can. We've now got the local belts nearby seeded with GSCs - so on ops we know where to park to hoover up the roids; but the GSCs are still there to help our noobs the rest of the time, as they can fill the three GSC, then get thier hauler to shift the ore (cos, as any fool knows, 3 GSCs = 1 Itty 3).
An Orca in an op support role works just as well though, transfering ore into the corp cargobay. Even then, if you want to keep the Orca on station, (supporting the miners in the belt) you need an Itty 5 to do the hauling anyway.
Anyway, you should join Interstellar Federal Forces.
Le Chen.
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Vincenzo DiFrancesco
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.03 05:54:00 -
[28]
Admittedly, I'm new to all this. But it seems to me that the time and effort you go through to find a mark and steal a couple 100k of ore could be put to actual mining for a greater profit and less headache. What's the advantage to stealing it?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.03.03 06:02:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 03/03/2009 06:03:06
Originally by: Vincenzo DiFrancesco Admittedly, I'm new to all this. But it seems to me that the time and effort you go through to find a mark and steal a couple 100k of ore could be put to actual mining for a greater profit and less headache. What's the advantage to stealing it?
They don't steal it because they want the ore. They steal it to get you to shoot at them so that they can blow you up.
Oh yeah ... and the reason that they blow you up is - purely for the fun of it.
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Vincenzo DiFrancesco
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.03 06:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 03/03/2009 06:03:06
They don't steal it because they want the ore. They steal it to get you to shoot at them so that they can blow you up.
Oh yeah ... and the reason that they blow you up is - purely for the fun of it.
Ah. So, they do it for ePeen stroking. :)
Seems like the best plan would be to not worry about the can. Let them have it, congratulate them on their epic accomplishment of wasting a small amount of your time and move on.
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