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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:21:00 -
[1]
16 year old fired for saying job is boring
So apparently you can lose your job for just saying your job is boring and not even giving the name of the company. The individual that was fired is a 16 year old girl for christs sake, they think everything other than dating is boring!
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:25:00 -
[2]
Well, we do live in the age of the Internetz nowadays, people will just need to learn to not release this kind of information to a media that is essentially public.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:27:00 -
[3]
And yet people continue to tell me Facebook is "awesome".
Its a bit petty - but hey. Maybe they had additional motives.
I was laid off once saying "I had a lack of interest in the role" - The role was idiot-work, it was my first job after all.
Coincidentally - The company was making cutbacks at that particular point, and since I was last in... I was the first out.
Simple employer mechanics, create reasons to get rid of your staff. They probably needed to lay off the girl, and went looking on Facebook for some juicy evidence. Turns out they found it.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jacob Mei on 26/02/2009 15:31:39
 Originally by: Reven Cordelle
They probably needed to lay off the girl, and went looking on Facebook for some juicy evidence. Turns out they found it.
How is it evidence though. She didnt say "My job at Ivell Marketing & Logistics in Clacton is boring." She simply said "My job is boring." meaning that the only people who would get the context of this statement are her friends who knew where she worked at and her employers.
I agree though that it sounds like the company was looking for a reason to fire her, perhaps she wasnt a good employee or they did indeed need to lay off some workers but come on, firing her for saying something like THAT is treading into thought police territory.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:36:00 -
[5]
If I were to say something like that under my real name, I would be in trouble. Like it or not, under your name you represent your employer. What you say reflects on them. This can have negative consequences. That is why I do not do social networking.
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cpu939
Gallente
OffBeat Creations
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:46:00 -
[6]
well remember the pen is more powerfull than the sword, oer in our age the face book is more powerfull than a titans doomdays lol
becarefull what you write and say on the internet.
01101111 01100110 01100110 01100010 01100101 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100011 01110010 01100101 01100001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 |
Roah Baztohr
Minmatar
The Hive Mind
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:48:00 -
[7]
Nothing strange about this... you have an employee who you know does not enjoy her job... of course you fire her (if you legally can). I've got a team with some people on a permanent contract as well as several temps... If I find one of the permanent contract people isn't enjoying his/her job, I sit down and talk to them and see what can be done. If a temp goes round saying it's a boring job, I replace them... common sense really.
One could debate whether or not a manager should read his employees' facebook pages... but then again, we don't know how or why he did this... it might have been brought to his attention in many different ways.
Bottom line: If you want to keep your job, don't say it's boring in public. If you can't fathom something that basic, you deserve to be fired. And whether the company's name was mentioned doesn't matter, as this isn't about "slandering" the company, it's about having an unmotivated employee.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:49:00 -
[8]
Context, people, context !
" Miss Swann, 16, was handed a letter informing her she was being sacked when her bosses found out about it.
The letter said: “Following your comments made on Facebook about your job and the company we feel it is better that, as you are not happy and do not enjoy your work we end your employment with Ivell Marketing & Logistics with immediate effect.”
Stephen Ivell, owner of Ivell Marketing Logistics, said the Stephenson Road West company has done everything by the book.
He said: “It is just a shame that it did not work out because she is a lovely girl.
“For a small company, when a decision is made, one thinks long and hard about it.” "
Would your small company boss overhear you saying to a visiting friend that your job is boring, he'd probably fire you anyway, since in small companies employee involvement is critical. A bored employee is a non-productive employee, which you'd better get rid of.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:51:00 -
[9]
I didn't think companies could tread into police thought territory. They are privately owned associations where the opinions and actions of each and every employee can make a difference in the profit/loss of said company. If one cog wears down, it can slow down the entire machine.
Now, firing somebody because they thought the company was boring is only as fraction of the story. When you are bored of your work your performance tends to show it, and they probably noticed that. And there is nothing stating that they actually looked for her facebook, being in the most likely event a coworker that was on the friends list had seen it and pointed it out, either because she wanted the spot, she wanted to brown nose, or the 2 didn't get along as well as they thought.
And they make a statement in there about snooping in facebook and reporting something that is 'personal'. I'm sorry but YOUR ON A SOCIAL NETWORKING SIGHT ON THE INTERNET. Once you post a thought or comment on myspace or facebook it is no longer personal as the whole world can see it.
This happened to a guy once who worked here as well but in his case he was caught talking **** about the company on his myspace page and that page just "happened" to fall into managements hands.
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Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc.
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:58:00 -
[10]
I'd just like to see what would happen at an employment tribunal. The majority of workers probably do find their jobs boring.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
Would your small company boss overhear you saying to a visiting friend that your job is boring, he'd probably fire you anyway, since in small companies employee involvement is critical. A bored employee is a non-productive employee, which you'd better get rid of.
I disagree. It is much better for a small company to work out the problems because firing someone + finding a new person for the spot costs time and means losing money. This affects a small company much more than a large one. Of course, when the problems really can't be worked out, then you have to let someone go.
CEO | Diary of a pod pilot |
Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc.
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Myrhial Arkenath
Originally by: Akita T
Would your small company boss overhear you saying to a visiting friend that your job is boring, he'd probably fire you anyway, since in small companies employee involvement is critical. A bored employee is a non-productive employee, which you'd better get rid of.
I disagree. It is much better for a small company to work out the problems because firing someone + finding a new person for the spot costs time and means losing money. This affects a small company much more than a large one. Of course, when the problems really can't be worked out, then you have to let someone go.
Even the possible training costs and time for the person to get up to speed incurs a bigger impact on a small company.
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mingeta dong
BEER Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:07:00 -
[13]
My friend posted this on my facebook page, I am now worried my future in farming has been borked my such a rash action.
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Kambiri Zoltana
Gallente
Zoltana Business
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:14:00 -
[14]
Their is a freedom of speach, if it happened where I live and take it to the court I bet the person in question would win.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kambiri Zoltana
Their is a freedom of speach, if it happened where I live and take it to the court I bet the person in question would win.
And there is also freedom of the press and slander. Now tell me where one ends and one begins.
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NeoShocker
Caldari
Free Collective
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:25:00 -
[16]
I'm willing to bet you that the girl in question gave facebook info to her employer. :P Who needs evidence?
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Peace through power! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Myrhial Arkenath
Originally by: Akita T
Would your small company boss overhear you saying to a visiting friend that your job is boring, he'd probably fire you anyway, since in small companies employee involvement is critical. A bored employee is a non-productive employee, which you'd better get rid of.
I disagree. It is much better for a small company to work out the problems because firing someone + finding a new person for the spot costs time and means losing money. This affects a small company much more than a large one. Of course, when the problems really can't be worked out, then you have to let someone go.
Not if the "employee" in question is a 16-year-old girl working as a glorified secretary, that probably needed next to zero training to begin with.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:28:00 -
[18]
[gutter press]
Also: Much older male employer spies on teenage employee, looking for erotic pics of her underaged friends.
Omg! He's one of them!
[/gutter press]
Yes.
Yes, I am. |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Kambiri Zoltana
Their is a freedom of speach, if it happened where I live and take it to the court I bet the person in question would win.
And there is also freedom of the press and slander. Now tell me where one ends and one begins.
Taken from English Defamation Law page on wiki.org
Quote:
English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual (or individuals) in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.
Because she did not name the company in her statement I would argue that slander does not apply to this.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
I didn't think companies could tread into police thought territory. They are privately owned associations where the opinions and actions of each and every employee can make a difference in the profit/loss of said company. If one cog wears down, it can slow down the entire machine.
Now, firing somebody because they thought the company was boring is only as fraction of the story. When you are bored of your work your performance tends to show it, and they probably noticed that. And there is nothing stating that they actually looked for her facebook, being in the most likely event a coworker that was on the friends list had seen it and pointed it out, either because she wanted the spot, she wanted to brown nose, or the 2 didn't get along as well as they thought.
And they make a statement in there about snooping in facebook and reporting something that is 'personal'. I'm sorry but YOUR ON A SOCIAL NETWORKING SIGHT ON THE INTERNET. Once you post a thought or comment on myspace or facebook it is no longer personal as the whole world can see it.
This happened to a guy once who worked here as well but in his case he was caught talking **** about the company on his myspace page and that page just "happened" to fall into managements hands.
Now while I completely agree with you on the point of social networking sites on the internet being public my question to you is are you saying that its not enough that the employee essentially gives the employer their body (dirty thoughts aside) for X amount of time for X amount of pay and does their job but that the employee must in essence give the employee their "heart and mind" as well? In short do employees need to be Hank Hill's going around saying "I love selling propane and propane accessories"?
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Now while I completely agree with you on the point of social networking sites on the internet being public my question to you is are you saying that its not enough that the employee essentially gives the employer their body (dirty thoughts aside) for X amount of time for X amount of pay and does their job but that the employee must in essence give the employee their "heart and mind" as well? In short do employees need to be Hank Hill's going around saying "I love selling propane and propane accessories"?
Well your asking the wrong person that question as I'm a Hank Hill type. I love my job and I'm very dedicated to it. Any time someone asks me about my work I go on explaining (what I'm allowed to explain since I do work in a secured area) what I do and how much fun it is.
But word of mouth can have a big impact on a company. Let's take for example the pass it on group training exercise. When you have a group of people the objective is to pass a message from Person A to Person G through every one in between. you can not write the message down and only the next person in line can hear the message from you. You will find that by the time the message gets to person G the message is almost completely different than when it left person A.
She may post that her job is boring. Somebody may read that and tell a few friends who tell their parents who tell their coworkers and by the time the message makes it out there it may be construed as something completely different which may or may not affect the company.
Quote:
Taken from English Defamation Law page on wiki.org
Quote:English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual (or individuals) in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.
Because she did not name the company in her statement I would argue that slander does not apply to this.
The average looker would not know what company she works for but for her friends and associates on her list it doesn't take much to figure out who she was talking about. The only exception is if she worked multiple jobs.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:59:00 -
[22]
I find it amusing that the company in questions website has disabled its contact page. I can only imagine all the rabble rabble rabble e-mails they were getting. 
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Now while I completely agree with you on the point of social networking sites on the internet being public my question to you is are you saying that its not enough that the employee essentially gives the employer their body (dirty thoughts aside) for X amount of time for X amount of pay and does their job but that the employee must in essence give the employee their "heart and mind" as well? In short do employees need to be Hank Hill's going around saying "I love selling propane and propane accessories"?
Well your asking the wrong person that question as I'm a Hank Hill type. I love my job and I'm very dedicated to it. Any time someone asks me about my work I go on explaining (what I'm allowed to explain since I do work in a secured area) what I do and how much fun it is.
But word of mouth can have a big impact on a company. Let's take for example the pass it on group training exercise. When you have a group of people the objective is to pass a message from Person A to Person G through every one in between. you can not write the message down and only the next person in line can hear the message from you. You will find that by the time the message gets to person G the message is almost completely different than when it left person A.
She may post that her job is boring. Somebody may read that and tell a few friends who tell their parents who tell their coworkers and by the time the message makes it out there it may be construed as something completely different which may or may not affect the company.
Have you loved every job you had or is there one or two that you took "because you needed the money" that you didnt particularly care about? Dont get me wrong, finding a job you love is a rewarding experience but for a majority of humanity often times the job is only a means to get money for other things. If we indeed were required to give our "heart and mind" to the job we were in at the time simply being unhappy would skyrocket the unemployment rate of every nation on earth.
Quote:
Taken from English Defamation Law page on wiki.org
Quote:English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual (or individuals) in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.
Because she did not name the company in her statement I would argue that slander does not apply to this.
The average looker would not know what company she works for but for her friends and associates on her list it doesn't take much to figure out who she was talking about. The only exception is if she worked multiple jobs.
Let me counter by asking would everyone on her buddy list and friends know what the name of the company was and would they care enough based on that statement to stop doing buisness with said company if infact they were doing buisness with them. Further more, if her exact words were "my job is boring" how could that possibly be used in a game of teliphone. The thing about humans is that the more interesting the comment is the more likely it is to get passed along, if infact the four word sentience is all she wrote odds are it would just go as far as the person reading it and likely be discarded a moment later.
Responses in bold.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Have you loved every job you had or is there one or two that you took "because you needed the money" that you didnt particularly care about? Dont get me wrong, finding a job you love is a rewarding experience but for a majority of humanity often times the job is only a means to get money for other things. If we indeed were required to give our "heart and mind" to the job we were in at the time simply being unhappy would skyrocket the unemployment rate of every nation on earth.
Well considering I worked for Wal-mart I have to say no. I spent 5 years destroying my knee and busting my ass for a pittance of pay. Every evening I woke up I dreaded, and I do mean it, going there but even so by the time I got there I still gave it everything I had (191 cases an hour baby).
But our way of venting was getting ****face drunk by noon the following day, which is how I ended up being a bartender. All in all though, I saved my **** talking for the day I quit and every day after that. In truth though if Wal-mart is ever brought up I may or may not pop off a one liner and then let it be. I guess my point being is that at that point they no longer 'own' me so I've got full freedom to slander away.
I would also like to take into account 2 other jobs, my current one and my time at roundtable/IPC. Management and me have not always seen eye to eye. And I have had bad Managers at both of these places. But instead of venting on myspace or facebook or whatever I took it up with the main office and solved my issue's. To date now I have knocked 4 managers off their high horse (For anyone who claims that companies do not listen, do not be afraid to speak your mind)
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Let me counter by asking would everyone on her buddy list and friends know what the name of the company was and would they care enough based on that statement to stop doing business with said company if infact they were doing business with them. Further more, if her exact words were "my job is boring" how could that possibly be used in a game of telephone. The thing about humans is that the more interesting the comment is the more likely it is to get passed along, if infact the four word sentience is all she wrote odds are it would just go as far as the person reading it and likely be discarded a moment later.
This is something that we may never know considering that we do not really know what the company does (well aside from the obvious company title). What we do know is that at least one person cared.
And like I said, what we read here is only a fraction of the story. I can almost guarantee that there is more to it that the general public does not know.
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Lintaka
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:35:00 -
[25]
Well aside from the ridiculous situation that this has been brought under, I have read before where an employee was fired after taking the day ill and putting on their Facebook "Skiving a day off!", which he had not realised that his boss was added as a friend..
That aside however, if she was on Facebook at work then its her own fault as you should not be using the companies internet for personal leisure during work hours..
The second point is, if you have a public profile then you should be weary of what you say, however in a situation like Facebook, you can set complete privacy between the internet and your friends, and then through the list function that Facebook allows, further seperate your freinds..
For example, I have a Facebook account, however Im very weary of having my real name on it, so the account itself is completley private except freinds who I have added..
This is further broken down through the list function that only freinds can see my pictures, status ect, where as work colleges can only message me or write on the wall..
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Gotta be on the ball.. ball? what ball.. that ball.. which ball.. AHH BALL!! |
Danton Rasche
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:10:00 -
[26]
It's a terrible excuse for firing someone:
1. Boredom is internal. As long as she performs her job well and conducts herself apropriately at work, it no one else's business if she's bored or not.
2. Boredom is subjective. She could have yelled the company's name from the rooftop, it's not a slur on the company because it's just her reaction to the work. She's not saying the company is boring, she's merely reacting to her own life, which is wel within her rights.
Talking about your job online may not be the smasrtest thing to do, but it's a part of her daily life and people talking about their lives is the mainstay of these sorts of networking sites.
I'm guessing this whole incident was just an excuse, but it's a pretty poorly chosen one. If her lack of motivation was an evident problem, then they should leave facebook out of it altogether. If it wasn't, they've no cause to fire her and shouldn't pretend as though they do.
Managers like to think all their employees should be dancing on moonbeams at the thought of every staff meeting and hour of overtime, but it's simply not realistic. You can't start firing people for being human.
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Atnal
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:30:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Atnal on 26/02/2009 18:32:32
This is why smart people don't post embarrassing statements on publicly available forums with your own name on it.
In my opinion the burden of responsibility falls on the person. There's plenty of things to talk about and express yourself online but if you posted a statement about how boring your job was with a fake name none would be the wiser.
I have a Facebook page too but I don't have hardly anything on it except for a picture and some hobbies I have. If I want to say something bad about something I would use a place like this where the can't relate my real name with my game name.
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:52:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/02/2009 18:53:59
I thought we had this discussion in a thread a few months back and I think I recall you being on the other side of the debate.
As I said then, policing thoughts of an individual or the thoughts of their friends, that are not associated with work, and are not criminal, should not give grounds to fire. But if you identify the employer, slander them directly, and it is open for public viewing, some issues are raised.
In this case the employer prove that she did not have another job that she could have been implicating and was the employer identified? Unless those two things can be uncovered then I see no reason to fire the individual.
Facebook has an easy way to prevent this in the way of making your page private. This only allows your friends to view the content. If the girl was naive enough to give her boss access or not make it private, implicated the employer, and the job is actually productivity based, then firing her may be justified. If she was at work and said to a customer the same thing and the boss overheard, she would more then likely get canned.
As it has to do with jobs, boredom, and productivity, I say the productivity of an individual can only be affected by "boredom" if the job actually involves production. For example, when I was younger I was a life-guard. Many days I was bored out of my mind, but I never let anyone drown due to that fact.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:19:00 -
[29]
Yet another shining example of how social networking sites can be more dangerous than helpful if you aren't careful.
I remember when Blogging first became big, there were SEVERAL stories about people being fired for what they said on their blogs. The same when MySpace was the big thing. Now Facebook is the big thing, and people are getting fired over comments on that. Unsurprising.
Let us all remember, regardless of how we think things should operate, if you put comments on the internet in your own name, be prepared to deal with possible negative consequences. Particularly when those comments are directed towards or are about your employer.
Fix the Wardec System! |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:24:00 -
[30]
This is indefensible. She was fired because she voiced an opinion - an opinion that anyone who has ever had a job will at some point have shared. I'm a bleeding rocket scientist for crying out loud, and even I find certain aspects of my job boring. It goes with the territory, but that doesn't mean I'm unhappy with my job. Being fired because of it is just petty, and probably illegal. If there are any actual lawyers reading this thread, I'd be interested to know if this falls under unfair dismissal.
____________________
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:30:00 -
[31]
i hope that teen can sue the company and get some money
also why the boss was searching for employee profile in facebook ? is pretty clear that the boss want to know employee personal life
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Yet another shining example of how social networking sites can be more dangerous than helpful if you aren't careful.
I remember when Blogging first became big, there were SEVERAL stories about people being fired for what they said on their blogs. The same when MySpace was the big thing. Now Facebook is the big thing, and people are getting fired over comments on that. Unsurprising.
Let us all remember, regardless of how we think things should operate, if you put comments on the internet in your own name, be prepared to deal with possible negative consequences. Particularly when those comments are directed towards or are about your employer.
this is way i am against the new rules to identify the blogger
Somos universales,
Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales,
Ocultando nuestros miedos,
Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos,
Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
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Evthron Macyntire
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Posted - 2009.02.27 01:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Danton Rasche
It's a terrible excuse for firing someone:
1. Boredom is internal. As long as she performs her job well and conducts herself apropriately at work, it no one else's business if she's bored or not.
2. Boredom is subjective. She could have yelled the company's name from the rooftop, it's not a slur on the company because it's just her reaction to the work. She's not saying the company is boring, she's merely reacting to her own life, which is wel within her rights.
Talking about your job online may not be the smasrtest thing to do, but it's a part of her daily life and people talking about their lives is the mainstay of these sorts of networking sites.
I'm guessing this whole incident was just an excuse, but it's a pretty poorly chosen one. If her lack of motivation was an evident problem, then they should leave facebook out of it altogether. If it wasn't, they've no cause to fire her and shouldn't pretend as though they do.
Managers like to think all their employees should be dancing on moonbeams at the thought of every staff meeting and hour of overtime, but it's simply not realistic. You can't start firing people for being human.
There is a difference between "My job is boring" and "I had a boring day".
If you have a boring day, it is simply that. Not enough work to do that day, some menial task you had to do, whatever.
If you job is boring then you probably half-ass all day, everyday. You show no enthusiasm for work, you don't care about anything. You are dead weight.
I didn't like my first job, and I was the least enthusiastic person there. But I showed up every day, and did my job better then most.
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Sigs like this. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 02:18:00 -
[33]
Well if they fired someone for saying something silly like 'my job is boring' on a social outlet like Facebook then the employers were probably looking for any reason to get rid of them anyway. 
- Infectious - |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.02.27 02:23:00 -
[34]
Office admin work is boring as **** unless you have some strange fetish for collating.
On top of that, she's 16. When I was that age, most my peers would smoke pot before work and take naps when the boss wasn't looking. If their only complaint was her expressing a lack of enthusiasm for the job, they had themselves one good kid.
On top of that, just because you CAN read someone's messages doesn't mean you have any business doing so if you know full well you were not meant to see them. It's called respect, and I guess this company has none for its employees.
On top of that, they were probably paying her **** all anyway, how much do they expect for slave labour wages?
P.S. Facebook is silly and no one should keep any info, pictures, messages, anything at all on there.
In before Ralara. |
Evthron Macyntire
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Posted - 2009.02.27 03:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Office admin work is boring as **** unless you have some strange fetish for collating.
On top of that, she's 16. When I was that age, most my peers would smoke pot before work and take naps when the boss wasn't looking. If their only complaint was her expressing a lack of enthusiasm for the job, they had themselves one good kid.
While we will not know for sure, if they fired her over "my job is boring" then it stands to reason she was a genuinely ****ty employee.
Originally by: Brea Lafail
On top of that, just because you CAN read someone's messages doesn't mean you have any business doing so if you know full well you were not meant to see them. It's called respect, and I guess this company has none for its employees.
If you post anything on the internet in the public domain, then you want people to see it, or don't care. If you don't want prying eyes in your personal life, restrict information to your friends, or simply don't post it on the internet. I see this a lot, everyone demands respect before earning or giving any. I am sure you can see the glaring problem here.
Originally by: Brea Lafail
On top of that, they were probably paying her **** all anyway, how much do they expect for slave labour wages?
It's called work ethic. You are paid to do a job and you should do that job to the best of your ability. Pay sucks? Get a new job.
Originally by: Brea Lafail
P.S. Facebook is silly and no one should keep any info, pictures, messages, anything at all on there.
Srsly.
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Sigs like this. |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.02.27 03:52:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Evthron Macyntire
Originally by: Brea Lafail
On top of that, they were probably paying her **** all anyway, how much do they expect for slave labour wages?
It's called work ethic. You are paid to do a job and you should do that job to the best of your ability. Pay sucks? Get a new job.
It's called, "If all you pay is peanuts, all you get is monkeys." If they want enthusiasm, there needs to be a motivator. Cash works well for this.
In before Ralara. |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:10:00 -
[37]
She was working there for free after all.
On another topic, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Originally by: Evthron Macyntire
Originally by: Brea Lafail
On top of that, they were probably paying her **** all anyway, how much do they expect for slave labour wages?
It's called work ethic. You are paid to do a job and you should do that job to the best of your ability. Pay sucks? Get a new job.
It's called, "If all you pay is peanuts, all you get is monkeys." If they want enthusiasm, there needs to be a motivator. Cash works well for this.
The job also has to be worth the money you are being paid for it. Skilled work is more valuable than unskilled, and skilled work requiring extensive education more valuable still.
This is why jobs that are physically demanding but require little education to perform pay little compared to jobs that are physically undemanding but require complex knowledge.
It's also why Unions are evil. They allow unskilled, uneducated laborers to elevate themselves to the level of skilled educated employees, thus making the business afflicted with the Union uncompetitive, causing it's ultimate demise and the loss of all the jobs that company provided.
In other words, if you don't like your job or it doesn't pay enough, either get another job, or head back to school and get a better education. Don't demand something you haven't earned, and don't complain when your low-end job is boring.
Fix the Wardec System! |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:48:00 -
[39]
But that would be undemocratic of us. :D
On another topic, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.27 06:38:00 -
[40]
People really put the stupidest stuff up on those social-networking sites. Especially the ones that use it as both their personal and professional contact place.
I fired someone on a project I was working on, a while back, just 'cos of their s-n statements.
Pity, too, 'cos he had a lot of talent. I'd met him before that, on a different project. Talked to him about getting aboard mine. Went over everything from logistics, to budget, to payments. Went great. Everything was on target... 'til he sends me the link to his s-n page (to add me as a contact).
He'd written a series of profanity-laced blogs (plainly readable on his s-n site) about how much he resented working for less than X-amount of dollars, and how he's worth so much more than that. He probably is, tbh... but that's not what I needed to read, after he's agreed to do his task for just under half the rant-obsessed X-amount that he never mentioned during our discussions. Also, great pains to mention how he'd shove such offers up the posteriors of anyone low-balling his apparent worth.
Sorry, dude... going to have to change plans. 
Yah, it's a bit different from the case of the 16 year old in the OP... but people seriously need to get smarter about how they use those darn social-networking sites. The information can be difficult to get rid of, once it's out there... and easily found.
_______
Liberating Vegas '09! |
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:43:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
I didn't think companies could tread into police thought territory. They are privately owned associations...
And as such they can fire anyone they want, for any reason they want, as long as it does not violate the law.
Fact is, a lot of employers will look you up on myspace/facebook/etc now just to see the kind of person you are. And there is no reason to think they don't continue to check on you, for whatever reason.
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This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
How is it evidence though. She didnt say "My job at Ivell Marketing & Logistics in Clacton is boring." She simply said "My job is boring." meaning that the only people who would get the context of this statement are her friends who knew where she worked at and her employers.
I agree though that it sounds like the company was looking for a reason to fire her, perhaps she wasnt a good employee or they did indeed need to lay off some workers but come on, firing her for saying something like THAT is treading into thought police territory.
It does sound like they were looking for an excuse to get rid of her. However, it looks like they've shot themselves in the foot, as a dismissal on so flimsy a reason now makes them look heavy-handed and not an employer to work for. If they were serious about her attitude, they simply would have had a quiet word with her, maybe a disciplinary (although even this would be hard to justify).
Mind you, as the credit crunch rolls on, we will see an increase in random sackings on threadbare pretexts. Companies will want to shed staff as much as possible. Then they will realise that they have no skilled people left and start recruiting again six months down the line. It's so predictable, it's not even funny.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Quote:
English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which are alleged to defame a named or identifiable individual (or individuals) in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.
Because she did not name the company in her statement I would argue that slander does not apply to this.
If someone knew that she only had one job, and who her employer was, then that person would know who the statement applied to. I'm not sure whether this is sufficient to count as identifiability of the subject - most people certainly wouldn't have been able to make the connection. Does anyone know where the law stands on this point?
---
Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/02/2009 19:08:42
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/02/2009 19:07:01
I thought we had this discussion in a thread a few months back and I think I recall you being on the other side of the debate. EDIT: and making some very good points against me. /end edit:
That thread was similar; I believe it was over photo contents and how such things can get you fired or in trouble. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words however it would seem for this employer four very common words was enough to sack the individual or at least that is what we are lead to believe assuming the reporters didnÆt leave anything out.
IÆm still on the same side of the argument, I honestly feel social network sites are digital Pandora boxes that either need to reconfigured in such a way as to avoid these situations or honestly taken down all together (granted you cant protect people from themselves but that doesnÆt mean you should blindly invite personal disaster with innocent photos and comments that your stalker employer uses to fire your ass. Lets be honest with ourselves, you cant guard your thoughts 100% of the time and if you have friends who use such sites even if you donÆt, and they post something in your name or a photo of you in a compromising situation your pretty much screwed either way.)
In short, the internet and the job environment should not cross paths in such a way as to effect the status of a individuals income unless in the obvious situations (such as an individual saying they were going to come to work with a shot gun the next week and go crazy, etc). Hell IÆm not crazy about companies that require you to apply to a job opening solely online now but thatÆs for another topic.
Originally by: Micia
Yah, it's a bit different from the case of the 16 year old in the OP... but people seriously need to get smarter about how they use those darn social-networking sites. The information can be difficult to get rid of, once it's out there... and easily found.
While I agree completely would you not say there is something amiss between the two examples? You fired that individual because of his idiocy in handing you a self authored webpage containing views that he was under paid and used profanity. This girl on the other hand was fired for something that could amount to a slip of the tongue if she were speaking as opposed to typing.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
If someone knew that she only had one job, and who her employer was, then that person would know who the statement applied to. I'm not sure whether this is sufficient to count as identifiability of the subject - most people certainly wouldn't have been able to make the connection. Does anyone know where the law stands on this point?
While I donÆt know the answer to your question let me ask you this. Would that statement have affected the income of that company? What would the odds be that someone looking to do business with her former company would look it up, see a comment on Facebook, go ôOMG that company is boring I donÆt want to do business with them!ö even if they knew the company that individual was talking about.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:02:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 27/02/2009 16:02:08
Originally by: Jacob Mei
While I donÆt know the answer to your question let me ask you this. Would that statement have affected the income of that company? What would the odds be that someone looking to do business with her former company would look it up, see a comment on Facebook, go ôOMG that company is boring I donÆt want to do business with them!ö even if they knew the company that individual was talking about.
Imagine you're her employer. You want to recruit people to work at your company, but after hearing her comments, fewer people might be interested. Potentially, you need to spend more money looking for recruits as well as offering to pay them more.
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Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 27/02/2009 16:02:08
Originally by: Jacob Mei
While I donÆt know the answer to your question let me ask you this. Would that statement have affected the income of that company? What would the odds be that someone looking to do business with her former company would look it up, see a comment on Facebook, go ôOMG that company is boring I donÆt want to do business with them!ö even if they knew the company that individual was talking about.
Imagine you're her employer. You want to recruit people to work at your company, but after hearing her comments, fewer people might be interested. Potentially, you need to spend more money looking for recruits as well as offering to pay them more.
The thing is though she did -not- mention the companies name nor left any indication of who the company could be. No street name, no discription, etc. If she had the point would be valid however all she did was make a statement that many employees (see billions) would likely make on a dayily basis in their homes to their families and in the pubs with their friends, do you think any of them care enough if employee X in the paperwork department thinks their job is dull not to do buisness with said company?
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:31:00 -
[47]
I agree that most people wouldn't make the connection, but some people still would, and they could tell others, and so on. It may be that the overall impact is negligible. On the other hand, it may not; a smaller company probably depends much more on word-of-mouth recruiting.
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Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I agree that most people wouldn't make the connection, but some people still would, and they could tell others, and so on. It may be that the overall impact is negligible. On the other hand, it may not; a smaller company probably depends much more on word-of-mouth recruiting.
In all seriousness if I posted with my real name on here that my job was boring and you knew I worked at say McDonalds, would you go tell you family and friends "hey, Jacob thinks his job at McDonalds is boring!" would they A. Go tell others and B. Even care to begin with?
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.27 17:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Evthron Macyntire
There is a difference between "My job is boring" and "I had a boring day".
If you have a boring day, it is simply that. Not enough work to do that day, some menial task you had to do, whatever.
If you job is boring then you probably half-ass all day, everyday. You show no enthusiasm for work, you don't care about anything. You are dead weight.
I didn't like my first job, and I was the least enthusiastic person there. But I showed up every day, and did my job better then most.
I was gonna mention this too mainly because I had one hell of a boring week this week at work. But just because I came really close to grabbing one of our video recorders with the snake line and shoving it up my nose to see what's up there does not mean that the job itself is boring. It is quite fun when the projects roll in and we get to be very creative with modifications and problem solving.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.27 17:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I agree that most people wouldn't make the connection, but some people still would, and they could tell others, and so on. It may be that the overall impact is negligible. On the other hand, it may not; a smaller company probably depends much more on word-of-mouth recruiting.
In all seriousness if I posted with my real name on here that my job was boring and you knew I worked at say McDonalds, would you go tell you family and friends "hey, Jacob thinks his job at McDonalds is boring!" would they A. Go tell others and B. Even care to begin with?
That's why I believe it was a coworker who had access that may have ratted her out. For actual friends and family they would probably wouldn't have even thought twice about it.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.02.27 17:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I agree that most people wouldn't make the connection, but some people still would, and they could tell others, and so on. It may be that the overall impact is negligible. On the other hand, it may not; a smaller company probably depends much more on word-of-mouth recruiting.
In all seriousness if I posted with my real name on here that my job was boring and you knew I worked at say McDonalds, would you go tell you family and friends "hey, Jacob thinks his job at McDonalds is boring!" would they A. Go tell others and B. Even care to begin with?
Even if true it was ultimately the employer deciding to terminate the employment of the 16 year old. Assuming this was the straw that broke the camels back in a long line of issues with the 16 year old the fact that they fired her with this being the clincher is a weak move that clearly blew up in their face.
That's why I believe it was a coworker who had access that may have ratted her out. For actual friends and family they would probably wouldn't have even thought twice about it.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Evthron Macyntire
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Posted - 2009.02.28 06:47:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Brea Lafail
Originally by: Evthron Macyntire
Originally by: Brea Lafail
On top of that, they were probably paying her **** all anyway, how much do they expect for slave labour wages?
It's called work ethic. You are paid to do a job and you should do that job to the best of your ability. Pay sucks? Get a new job.
It's called, "If all you pay is peanuts, all you get is monkeys." If they want enthusiasm, there needs to be a motivator. Cash works well for this.
Maybe, but if you demonstrate to your employer that you don't care about your job, and you perform poorly, do you think they are going to give you more money in an effort to work harder? No they won't, they will start looking for a replacement.
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Sigs like this. |
Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc.
Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:37:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Xen Gin on 28/02/2009 12:37:38
Originally by: Evthron Macyntire
Maybe, but if you demonstrate to your employer that you don't care about your job, and you perform poorly, do you think they are going to give you more money in an effort to work harder? No they won't, they will start looking for a replacement.
Just because someone finds their job boring doesn't mean they don't care.
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Xen Gin
Edited by: Xen Gin on 28/02/2009 12:37:38
Originally by: Evthron Macyntire
Maybe, but if you demonstrate to your employer that you don't care about your job, and you perform poorly, do you think they are going to give you more money in an effort to work harder? No they won't, they will start looking for a replacement.
Just because someone finds their job boring doesn't mean they don't care.
Exactly!
My work is boring as hell currently since we are real slow at this point in time. When there are people to work with and kids to train I am one of the most passionate people in the field and the results show it. My work is always with me and I do my work even when I am not at there  I am a health professional with little work at my current place of employment so I get bored when there is little to do. So fire me (sorry, I had to do that  )
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:34:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 01/03/2009 01:37:29
Originally by: Kambiri Zoltana
Their is a freedom of speach, if it happened where I live and take it to the court I bet the person in question would win.
I bet you think screaming "fire" in a busy movie theater or "Bomb" in an airport is covered under freedom of speech (in the countries that have it). You can say whatever you'd like, but that doesn't mean it won't have repercussions at times.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Evthron Macyntire
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Posted - 2009.03.01 02:32:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Evthron Macyntire on 01/03/2009 02:32:34
*
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Sigs like this. |
Polkageist
Minmatar
Grave Diggers
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:01:00 -
[57]
**** facebook, its an antisocial animal farm for peope to be exploited by who know what...
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Antiochus Laetus
Gallente
Nox Aeternu
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:36:00 -
[58]
I think its ridiculous, how many people in the workforce actually like the job they do, hell most do the job because they need it for the money. I've been that way I'll straight up tell my boss, as I have in the past, this job is crap hurts my back, and i get really tired of it, but i still show up early and do the work.
Just because it may be boring as hell doesnt mean you should be fired. Boring does not equal non-productive worker.
Like others have said they were probably suffering financially and needed a bs excuses to axe her, instead of just saying 'hey, we're gonna have to terminated you to lowever overhead.'
I myself would probably fight it.
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--The Federation above all. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:59:00 -
[59]
If this happened here, the company would be forced by court to take her back if that one phrase was the only reason.
But it needs more context before it can be assessed properly.
I podded a Scot and I liked it <-- hot smartbomb action |
Persephone Starsider
Caldari
Starsider Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:59:00 -
[60]
I want to know why a ****head in management was looking at a 16-year old girl employee's facebook page. Also, since when were office jobs NOT boring? Here's how I feel about them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sq-HYGfnIo
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Nyd
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Posted - 2009.03.01 17:01:00 -
[61]
I used to live in Clacton, only 20 minutes away.
This isn't the first time i have heard of employers taking any excuse to fire employees, stops them having to pay redundancy. I once knew someone who was in charge of a cleaning firm, she hired some guy to do some cleaning and so she told him to turn up at one of the offices and meet another member of staff, the guy turned up and there was this woman in there, she wouldn't let him in because she scared him, said he was scary looking.
So the cleaner boss fired him, and that was that, out of a job because he was 6'4ft and ugly and some woman got the jitters.
People like me, we work to live, not live to work, but soon there will be a time when we will turn up for an interview and given a gun and told to kill members of a rival corporations to prove our loyalty. Seriously...
People take their jobs way to seriously, ok fine if your a doctor, or emergency services then yeah, but even if your a shelf stacker your surrounded by other shelf stackers who think there above you, you know the types...'Team leaders' they call themselves. Grow up, your a glorified shelf stacker.
Security guards for stores? You see them with the walkie talkies, like there fighting the war on terror from the front line in Morrisons.
But yeah, anyway, being bored at work...who isn't? Can't all be **** stars.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.03.04 14:29:00 -
[62]
As a few people have already said, many jobs are boring. I challenge anyone to state that they have never, in their life, said that their job was boring, or worse.
If you're lucky enough to have a job you enjoy, you'll work hard because you have fun.
If you're in a job you don't like, you'll work hard because you need the money to survive.
You always will have people who are unproductive and waste time and resources needlessly, but you cannot determine this from how they feel about their job. Some of the best motivated people care nothing for their jobs, only for the fact that they are being paid for it. Some of the worst motivated people can talk the talk to keep themselves in a job where they can slowly eat away at the company like a cancer, and be totally convinced that they love their job. These people can be at any level of the business.
If you sack a 16 year old for finding their job boring, you wouldn't have a single teenage staff member anywhere in the country. In fact, you'd have precious few employees at all. What matters is not what you think of the job, but whether you can actually do it.
Of course, people who consistantly moan and deride the company are counter-productive, and you need to get rid of those people, but there is a big difference between disliking your job and bringing the company into disrepute.
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