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AFK Mining = Macro Mining Lite?

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amarrsuit	Posted - 2009.03.01 17:52:00 - [1] Premise: AFK mining = Macro mining Lite Why you ask? Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Symptoms include: repetitive actions, non-responsiveness (to mail, to being bumped, etc...). A possible solution: Make AFK mining a bannable offense. This will bring major howls of protest but hear me out. If someone is believed to be a Macro miner/Bot then they are reported as such. If a GM tried to contact them and gets no response, they can simply log off the char in question. If X number of log-offs is reached (char has been AFK mining multiple times) a 3-day ban is implemented. Caught again w/in a certain time period, the ban becomes permanent. Perfect? Hell no. Unfairly treats those who prefer to mine watching TV? Maybe, but then why the hell are they even "playing" the game? (If they're present at the keyboard, they'll be fine). Yes, I see many issues with the proposed, not least the drain on GM time and misuse by players reporting non-botters as a grief tactic, etc. It's another thought in an endless discussion Let the flames begin.
Breaker77	Posted - 2009.03.01 17:59:00 - [2] Originally by: amarrsuit Symptoms include: repetitive actions, non-responsiveness (to mail, to being bumped, etc...). I don't respond to mails/convos while playing Eve, mainly because idiots like you are not worth my time. Does that make me a macro miner/missioner/hauler/trader/PvPer?? Also how is mining NOT repetitive?? 1. Lock Asteroid 2. Activate miners 3. Repeat 1 and 2 until cargo full 4. Dock 5. Start at 1 again
Velicitia Phenex Industries	Posted - 2009.03.01 18:17:00 - [3] Edited by: Velicitia on 01/03/2009 18:17:51 Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: amarrsuit Symptoms include: repetitive actions, non-responsiveness (to mail, to being bumped, etc...). I don't respond to mails/convos while playing Eve, mainly because idiots like you are not worth my time. Does that make me a macro miner/missioner/hauler/trader/PvPer?? Also how is mining NOT repetitive?? 10. Lock Asteroid. go to 20 20. Activate miners. go to 25 25. Let miners cycle. go to 30 30. if roid pops, go to 10. Else go to 35 35. if cargo != 'FULL' go to 25. Else go to 40 40. Empty Barge hold to Orca. go to 50 50. Dock Orca when full. go to 60 60. go to 10 fixed your macr... oh wait.. that's MINING IN GENERAL! as for ignoring accusations of macromining -- totally agree there, I only talk to corpmates, potential recruits, and known friends. (Although I will hit up local if there's a thief about).
Dark Soldat Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.01 18:21:00 - [4] hmm so CCP gimme a titan in high-sec unlimited jump capabilities no more macro miners no more roids problem solved Win game Have a cup of tea
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2009.03.01 18:27:00 - [5] Originally by: amarrsuit Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Uh...the definition of a macro/bot is a program written to automate certain actions, and has nothing to do with being afk or not. In fact, macroers probably are at the keyboard, but running 20+ clients simultaneously pushes their limits And yeah, I wont respond to random idiots in cruisers bumping my hulk, nor will I reply to spammed convo. If you had ever ice mined you would go afk while the lasers cycle too So we're gonna ban players for going to get a drink between cycles? I personally do a bit of studying for uni when I mine, so I should be banned? get a grip tbh
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.01 19:35:00 - [6] Originally by: amarrsuit Premise: AFK mining = Macro mining Lite Why you ask? Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Symptoms include: repetitive actions, non-responsiveness (to mail, to being bumped, etc...). A possible solution: Make AFK mining a bannable offense. This will bring major howls of protest but hear me out. If someone is believed to be a Macro miner/Bot then they are reported as such. If a GM tried to contact them and gets no response, they can simply log off the char in question. If X number of log-offs is reached (char has been AFK mining multiple times) a 3-day ban is implemented. Caught again w/in a certain time period, the ban becomes permanent. Perfect? Hell no. Unfairly treats those who prefer to mine watching TV? Maybe, but then why the hell are they even "playing" the game? (If they're present at the keyboard, they'll be fine). Yes, I see many issues with the proposed, not least the drain on GM time and misuse by players reporting non-botters as a grief tactic, etc. It's another thought in an endless discussion Let the flames begin. And the next step? Ban mission runner doing courier mission because they can be macro or sweatshop workers? I don't like you and I think you are a troll, so can I get you banned for existing?
Ratklif	Posted - 2009.03.01 20:06:00 - [7] Originally by: amarrsuit Premise: AFK mining = Macro mining Lite Why you ask? Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Symptoms include: repetitive actions, non-responsiveness (to mail, to being bumped, etc...). A possible solution: Make AFK mining a bannable offense. This will bring major howls of protest but hear me out. If someone is believed to be a Macro miner/Bot then they are reported as such. If a GM tried to contact them and gets no response, they can simply log off the char in question. If X number of log-offs is reached (char has been AFK mining multiple times) a 3-day ban is implemented. Caught again w/in a certain time period, the ban becomes permanent. Perfect? Hell no. Unfairly treats those who prefer to mine watching TV? Maybe, but then why the hell are they even "playing" the game? (If they're present at the keyboard, they'll be fine). Yes, I see many issues with the proposed, not least the drain on GM time and misuse by players reporting non-botters as a grief tactic, etc. It's another thought in an endless discussion Let the flames begin. So what...I lock three roids and begin mining....right then the phone rings and I go answer it. As I get up the GM tries to contact me and getting no response he disconnects me?? Sure as hell better not happen to me!
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.03.01 21:40:00 - [8] Macrominers are not being banned. And you think to ban afk miners? lolololololololololololol keep waiting mate. being afk is not against EULA. In fact there are some tools which help afk, such as autopilot, scout drones, shield boosters, and more.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.03.01 21:41:00 - [9] GMs have better things to do than checking wether or not a player is at the keyboard. Silly idea really on all levels. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.03.02 02:21:00 - [10] Strawman argument. AFK miners are not "macro mining lite". Macromining is not defined by "repetitive actions, non-responsiveness" etc. They're defined by using Macros and letting something other than the player control the actions of their ship. The Repetitive actions and non-responsiveness is merely because the more complex a programs task is the harder it is to program. An AFK miner is simply not controlling his ship at all and personally I don't see why it's a problem. Free targets ready to be suiganked IMHO. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.

Psionist	Posted - 2009.03.02 03:50:00 - [11] Edited by: Psionist on 02/03/2009 03:50:59 Guys, guys. I'm certain amarrsuit watches INTENTLY as his mining lasers cycle, pressing the buttons in 10 second intervals to ensure that he gets MAXIMUM mining yield by not overmining, and excitedly clapping his hands when an asteroid pops. He is FULLY ENGAGED in his mining and never glances away from the screen. In fact if he has to take a **, he DOCKS first before doing so because mining will away is BAD**. Edit: Spelling
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.03.02 04:51:00 - [12] I dont get why people get bent out of shape over macro mining when you can sit in a station in the newbi ship, never leave it and make idiotic amounts of ISK. **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.02 07:06:00 - [13] Originally by: amarrsuit Let the flames begin. I present the counterpoint that macro-mining should be SUPPORTED by in-game means, with nice in-game options of what to mine and what not to mine, if to use jetcans and switch between hauler/miner or just keep mining and return to station when hold is full, etc. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.02 07:13:00 - [14] A "bot" has to cycle your mining lasers.
Anadan Gesier	Posted - 2009.03.02 08:34:00 - [15] Originally by: amarrsuit Premise: AFK missioning = Macro mission Lite Why you ask? Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Symptoms include: repetitive actions, non-responsiveness (to mail, to being bumped, etc...). A possible solution: Make AFK missioning a bannable offense. This will bring major howls of protest but hear me out. If someone is believed to be a Macro missioner/Bot then they are reported as such. If a GM tried to contact them and gets no response, they can simply log off the char in question. If X number of log-offs is reached (char has been AFK missioning multiple times) a 3-day ban is implemented. Caught again w/in a certain time period, the ban becomes permanent. Perfect? Hell no. Unfairly treats those who prefer to do missions while watching TV? Maybe, but then why the hell are they even "playing" the game? (If they're present at the keyboard, they'll be fine). Yes, I see many issues with the proposed, not least the drain on GM time and misuse by players reporting non-botters as a grief tactic, etc. It's another thought in an endless discussion Let the flames begin. Fixed your post
Cyonix Maur Caldari Durt Industries Inc	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:04:00 - [16] the op is an idiot who has yet to have them Drop.
Dracira Dracc	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:19:00 - [17] dear little amarrsuit We talk again when you mined 1000 Ice Blocks.
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:50:00 - [18] This idea is terrible to a degree that I have not seen for a long time. sXe
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:34:00 - [19] -1 reputation Flame troll thread - sop making these and go use the macro thread in general discussion.. I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce
eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.03.02 15:06:00 - [20] Based on being AFK to mine would that mean while I am hauling AFK in my freighter I should be banned as well? If that is the case why not just get rid of Auto Pilot? ----- POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES

Ari Fah	Posted - 2009.03.02 16:54:00 - [21] I wonder why so many non-miners care about afk/macro mining. Is it in or something? Hip? Going with the stream? Punching the punchbag of the year (or rather "game")? I mean what the *** do you care about it? PvPers are the main beneficiaries of macro mining (and arguably the number one reason for macromining-sponsored rmt) while it hurts actual miners the most. And now you crawl out of your insured cheapfleet cat and mobilize the forums against all miners, including the honest small miner who just doesn't give a *** about all the annoying I'm-so-cool-and special bumps, convos, mails and threats? Ya, right.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:54:00 - [22] Originally by: amarrsuit Premise: AFK mining = Macro mining Lite Why you ask? Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Your premise is wrong. The EULA actually has a very specific guideline on what constitutes macro'ing, which is the use of another applcation to simulate keystrokes or mouseclicks to the game client. How is this like AFK mining at all? AFK mining means I locked on the asteroid using an in-game mouse click, I started my mining lasers. And then I went AFK. Do you notice the difference? Is it sinking in? I'd give you points for the troll - but I'm afraid you're really serious about the OP. --Vel There is no right or wrong way. There is only what works and what leaves you waking up in a clone vat.
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Strawman argument. AFK miners are not "macro mining lite". Macromining is not defined by "repetitive actions, non-responsiveness" etc. They're defined by using Macros and letting something other than the player control the actions of their ship. The Repetitive actions and non-responsiveness is merely because the more complex a programs task is the harder it is to program. An AFK miner is simply not controlling his ship at all and personally I don't see why it's a problem. Free targets ready to be suiganked IMHO. Agree with this, it's the AUTOMATION of some action with 3rd party software that defines macroing and TBH you could be present at keyboard and still be guilty of it. well mannered ah*
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.03.02 20:29:00 - [24] +-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:. \| PLEASE DO NOT \| :.:\:\:/:/:.: \| FEED THE TROLLS \| :=.' - - '.=: \| \| '=(\ 9 9 /)=' \| Thank you, \| ( (_) ) \| Management \| /`-vvv-'\ +-------------------+ / \ \| \| @@@ / /\|,,,,,\|\ \ \| \| @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\ @x@@x@ \| \| \|/ WW( ( ) )WW \\|\|\|\|/ \| \| \\| __\,,\ /,,/__ \\|\|/ \| \| \| (______Y______) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > ======================================================================
Abulurd Boniface Gallente Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration	Posted - 2009.03.02 20:54:00 - [25] To OP: "That's the most stupid thing I've heard in my life" [William Henry Gates III] Abulurd Boniface ME ME CEO For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease.
Eddie Vermin Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:29:00 - [26] If you are really against it and you suspect that someone is doing it just sit on their jetcan with a hauler letting them do the mining for you and you'll find out soon enough if they were just AFK or running a macro. And by the way I know quite a few miners minding their own business that were smartbombed by peeps thinking they were macro miners. While I mine I am in another window working on websites and grafx and get quite distracted at times, think of a better idea and they will come or at least the trolls won't eat you
offcopy Caldari OffBeat Creations	Posted - 2009.03.03 04:14:00 - [27] so you can't kill the miners in high sec so you'll wait for them to go toilet then report them and ban them for being afk. does this mean that the afk cloakers are also banable and the people using the autopilot wow i think you might just have removed lag from the game as so many would be banned.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.03.03 06:45:00 - [28] Originally by: amarrsuit Premise: AFK mining = Macro mining Lite Why you ask? Simply, the player is not present at the keyboard controlling their toon which is the base defintion of a Macro/Bot. Actually the definition is one that performs actions automatically. If you are mid-cycle there are no actions that need to be performed, and thus no need to perform them, thus it's not a macro/bot. You can only AFK mine for a few minutes, before an action is required. You can macro 23 hours a day dozens of accounts. Being AFK or not gains you no advantage. At the keyboard there is nothing you can do to speed up the process, if you actually think AFK mining is serious, the easy non-GM involved way to fix it would be to simply decrease cycle times. By the way, I know of plenty of people that will exhibit all of your symptoms and not be AFK. Personally I haven't mined in years, because even 'afk' it's not worth it, actually especially AFK. You get what a few minutes and then you have to be back at the keyboard anyway, enough time to go take a leak but that's about it. This is a problem that exists only in your head.
R4d1o4ct1v3 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.03 07:07:00 - [29] If you ban everybody who's attentions wanders away from the EVE client while their mining lasers cycle, EVE would run out of raw minerals. Which would lead to shortages of items, prices would sky-rocket, and people couldn't afford to loose their ships. Which would mean they either start mining themselves, which would bore them into a ban (after their attention inevitably wanders away from EVE), or they would just... stop playing. Sound good to you? If CCP really wanted our full attention 100% of the time spent mining, they would require some interaction at frequent intervals. The fact that, rather than introducing such a mechanism, they INCREASE the cycle time of mining lasers to 3 minutes, would indicate they not only understand, but support the wandering attention of miners. And by the way, macro mining usually involves 3'rd party software controlling your characters, which is against the EULA. (Although, extremely hard to proof) The EULA says nothing about you actually being glued to the keyboard every second your character is logged in.
Expendable Crewman	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:41:00 - [30] Lord Fitz, FWIW a properly fit Hulk, parked in an ice field, would need attention about once every 35 minutes. Its a good way to make AFK isk when you are doing house chores, or studying for that test.



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