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The CSM and the need for Industry and Market advocacy

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Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.02 08:41:00 - [1] Hey guys, The next round of CSM elections are only a few months away now. LaVista Vista's two terms are up at the end of this cycle and it's time to start thinking about candidates that the Market Discussions community can get behind to support their interests and issues. This thread serves two purposes; 1) Most importantly; to hopefully get the discussion going on who can advance the industry and market agendas in the CSM. 2) Least importantly; to announce that I intend to submit myself for candidacy. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2009.03.02 09:02:00 - [2] Originally by: Hexxx 2) Least importantly; to announce that I intend to submit myself for candidacy. I would normally only wish CSM membership on someone I disliked as it is an empty and thankless job most commonly filled with defectives engaging in "me, me, me" syndrome. That being said I'm not against a few idealistic souls jumping in as well (though I think it is a waste of their time) like Charlie did. Or like you seem to wish to do. /me shrugs. You've got my vote. I believe in you enough to know this is not just about your own aggrandizement. Mind you I trust your results more than your words so please don't try to tell me it does not include a bit of ego. I'm just glad someone of character is stepping up instead of someone of no character. My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free?
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2009.03.02 09:26:00 - [3] I honestly cant see any better candidate from an MD perspective. I would have thrown myself at another term on this new CSM. Knowing that someone as competent as Hexxx want this responsibility makes it almost redundant to look for an alternative. You got my vote Hexxx - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.02 09:35:00 - [4] I'm LaVista Vista, and I approve of this message. I'm voting for Hexxx.
Forceflow Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.03.02 09:40:00 - [5] +1 Vote. Target: Hexxx for CSM Chairman.
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.02 09:59:00 - [6] Hexxx will most likely stare at Dr Eyjog the entire meeting.... freaking him out totally. +1 vote -------- EBANK Forum Manager \| KIA Recruiting Director
TomHorn	Posted - 2009.03.02 10:37:00 - [7] Great job by LaVista Vista but when the next round of CSM elections come around no harm in a change. Especially when there is another sterling candidate for the job + 1 vote for Hexxx
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.02 11:17:00 - [8] Like many here I welcome your candidacy. One of the key reasons LV has done a good job in his terms is because he has put considerable time and effort into being a CSM. It was only a few months ago you announced you were quitting owing to time constraints. Whilst I appreciate you have reversed that decision I'm curious as to how you go from retirement to taking on an additional new role in a relatively short period and wonder how confidently you can make a 6 months+ time commitment.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.02 11:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Jackie Fisher Like many here I welcome your candidacy. One of the key reasons LV has done a good job in his terms is because he has put considerable time and effort into being a CSM. It was only a few months ago you announced you were quitting owing to time constraints. Whilst I appreciate you have reversed that decision I'm curious as to how you go from retirement to taking on an additional new role in a relatively short period and wonder how confidently you can make a 6 months+ time commitment. A damn good question. My attempted retirement stemmed from a blend of things. I was frustrated with what I believed was increasingly poor moderation, my own burn out, time constraints with my work, and also coming to grips with how I played EVE. When I "retired" from EVE, I retreated to the EBANK forums and essentially lurked there while I recharged my batteries and got myself sorted. I had some great conversations during that period of time, one of them happened to be with Mr. Horizontal. We had a talk about the future of the secondary markets, what it was like trying to build a financial system in a virtual world, and my priorities. That conversation ended with me admitting that I couldn't find a proper substitute for the challenge that I got from working as EBANK's Chairman. After more discussion I realized that I got real tangible value and satisfaction from EVE and trying to retire from that left a void. My time away taught me a few things. The most important was that I have to force myself to take time off from EVE now and then. If I get elected I plan on running the first term fully and then taking time off (and subsequently, not trying to get re-elected for a second term immediately after the first). The second thing is that I realized what I get from playing EVE and how I play it. I love the markets...I really love the secondary markets. For as long as I've been involved with the Market Discussions I've been working towards a single goal: maturing the secondary markets. I want to create a financial system. I want to help guide it's infrastructure and it's standards. I have yet to find another activity that gives me the challenges and rewards that working to develop EVE's secondary markets (and by extension, it's fledgling financial system). So...I learned some lessons. First, I need to know my limits and force myself to recharge BEFORE I burn out. Secondly, creating EVE's secondary markets is the best challenge/game/intellectual fun that I can possibly have right now...and I need that. Being a candidate for the CSM is a natural and practical step that I can take to further advance the secondary markets and also the primary markets. The markets do not operate in isolation from one another...and it's in my interest to see both are addressed and that ideas and concerns reach CCP. I can commit to the time required for the position for one election cycle at the minimum. I believe I have excellent communication skills, a history of being able to effective push ideas, and strong leadership qualities. I believe all this places me in a position to make sure that the voices of those who vote for me are heard clearly. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:00:00 - [10] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/03/2009 12:04:55 Originally by: Hexxx 2) Least importantly; to announce that I intend to submit myself for candidacy. Don't hesitate to resort to violence if CCP doesn't pay you the attention you believe you're entitled to... pull the drama card, remind them of what's at stake here. Oh and Hexxx, you're my hero! Black Sun Empire
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 02/03/2009 12:07:36 Originally by: YouGotRipped Oh and Hexxx, you're my hero! I thought Ricdic was your hero?
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.02 12:09:00 - [12] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/03/2009 12:04:55 Originally by: Hexxx 2) Least importantly; to announce that I intend to submit myself for candidacy. Don't hesitate to resort to violence if CCP doesn't pay you the attention you believe you're entitled to... pull the drama card, remind them of what's at stake here. Oh and Hexxx, you're my hero! Resort? You make it sound like violence is my "Plan B". EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:02:00 - [13] Originally by: Jackie Fisher Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 02/03/2009 12:07:36 Originally by: YouGotRipped Oh and Hexxx, you're my hero! I thought Ricdic was your hero? Shar Tegral is my hero, he's also our lord and saviour +1 to Hexxx as CSM. I couldn't pick anyone better.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:05:00 - [14] In it to win it, you got my vote
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:06:00 - [15] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/03/2009 13:10:11 Originally by: Hexxx Resort? You make it sound like violence is my "Plan B". Don't get your hopes up. Even if market issues are relevant, PVP (graphics, balancing) always gets a higher priority. It's no shame to quit midterm though. Black Sun Empire
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Taikun on 02/03/2009 13:13:43 Originally by: Hexxx Hey guys, I intend to submit myself for candidacy. Well you couldn't screw it up any more than LaVista Vista... But have fun. Sucker punch a CCP for me. (Figuratively speaking in the realm of your duties of course. ) Originally by: SentryRaven Hexxx will most likely stare at Dr Eyjog the entire meeting.... freaking him out totally. +1 vote This reminds me of Tommy of pinball wizard fame. How could Dr Eyjog get freaked out by Hexxx?? Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:22:00 - [17] I have a small question that I would really like you to answer HExxx. Your talking about the secondary markets, and I am a bit fearfull you might be biased to keep the ingame traded stock option on hold due to your interests in the current methods? I think its a HUGE problem that to much secondary game and metagame is unknown to many players and rather invisible inside the client of the game.. I have personally been battling for the ingame scc traded stock, and I seriously hope you will be the voice realizing this dream.. I would like to take the chance to mention the 3 main issues I worked on the old CSM, issues that was disregarded and deemed impossible back then... 1. The option to trade corp stocks on ingame scc market Needs little intro, we all discussed this a lot.. 2. Tradegoods price dynamics and interdependencies. It is and has long been a rather strange way the trade goods are seeded and traded by npcs. It seems ccp dropped this one in fear of breaking the game while trying to fix it. I would seriosuly suggest getting ccp to look at an overhaul and a fixing of this system. In my vision these items are linked to cause eachother to spawn, both on supply and demand side, also linked to station type, npc corp type and player activities. So Selling a piece of electronics on a caldari station would add to the effectiveness and supply of say a caldari missile BPO. Without some advanced system like this tradegoods seem dull and dead, and not worth the efferot aside from spawning a bit of isk.. 3. Npc facility prices and content Npc corps should really play a more underlying and passive aspect of the game, but always depending on player activities. In effect all facilities shoudl change prices much faster and based on player dynamics. To mention an example everything is governed by supply and demand, then prices on research slots and office space should move a lot faster in regards to these player dynamics. Also it could be needed to actually add a hangar fee and docking fee to the game to better balance player behaviour. These features are needed to change behaviour and to motivate players to differentiate their game, and to make a difference between what is possible for whom and where.. In short we could use a rather big economic revolution to the game, and I hope you Hexxx would advocate some of these.. Adam Smith's Revolution : CCP please supply: Defence / Justice / Logistics (that works) More fair wardec and aggression system, a better and working bounty system, and some logic in logistics thats not compression based, solo bias. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.02 13:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania 1. The option to trade corp stocks on ingame scc market Needs little intro, we all discussed this a lot.. It has been discussed alot, my main concern with an in-game market is that you just can't slap it into the current market tool, you'd have to come up with something totally different to prevent the inherent information asymmetry that we'd get by trying to shoehorn securities into the current in-game market tool. You need to link to discussions, you need to link to reports, etc. CCP has stated before that they want to see regulation and auditing before they'd even give an in-game securities exchange a green light and we certainly haven't been able to demonstrate that yet. All in all, unless CCP changes their stance we just aren't ready to twist their arm. We could try it, but I'm personally not sure if it's the best use of time. At the end of the day, if the voters demand it I'll give it a go. My personally recommendation is that we save that battle for a time when we're better equipped to fight it. Originally by: Caleb Ayrania 2. Tradegoods price dynamics and interdependencies. It is and has long been a rather strange way the trade goods are seeded and traded by npcs. It seems ccp dropped this one in fear of breaking the game while trying to fix it. I would seriosuly suggest getting ccp to look at an overhaul and a fixing of this system. In my vision these items are linked to cause eachother to spawn, both on supply and demand side, also linked to station type, npc corp type and player activities. So Selling a piece of electronics on a caldari station would add to the effectiveness and supply of say a caldari missile BPO. Without some advanced system like this tradegoods seem dull and dead, and not worth the efferot aside from spawning a bit of isk.. I'd like to see NPC goods reacting to over-sold and over-bought conditions, factoring in some kind of randomness and a behind-the-scenes stochastic oscillator driving the highs and lows of any given NPC commodity. I think some kind of volatility variable in some NPC goods pricing would give NPC trade goods some added depth as well. There are some possible problems here....but I think they can be addressed Originally by: Caleb Ayrania 3. Npc facility prices and content Npc corps should really play a more underlying and passive aspect of the game, but always depending on player activities. In effect all facilities shoudl change prices much faster and based on player dynamics. To mention an example everything is governed by supply and demand, then prices on research slots and office space should move a lot faster in regards to these player dynamics. Also it could be needed to actually add a hangar fee and docking fee to the game to better balance player behaviour. This last point needs more discussion. I think I understand what you want, but the unintended consequences may effect game design (new players docking). EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Axxul Void Engineers Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.02 14:43:00 - [19] Hexxx, Glad to hear that you will be running. +1 for Hexxx -Axxul
Absimi Liard Gallente Vertical Industrial Partners Limited	Posted - 2009.03.02 14:52:00 - [20] Got my vote. Shar might get it before you if they were willing, but until then. +1 Hexxx
LadyOfWrath Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research	Posted - 2009.03.02 17:25:00 - [21] I wish you the best Hexxx, and as many have asked me over and over again since the CSM was started I will also be running for CSM in the role of bringing current industrial issues to light.
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.03.02 17:39:00 - [22] I will be happy putting all my votes for you Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.03.02 17:57:00 - [23] Will anyone run for CSM on a platform of pushing for improvements to the primary markets? There is a ton of room for making things better there. I would like to see CCP spent a development cycle for the next big patch on the market/trade interfaces. Simple obvious things like highlighting my own orders in the Market Details screen--why has this never been implemented? Perhaps it's time for a new thread listing these things? Where are our new trade skills like adjusting qty/range on orders and perhaps improvements to the sluggish circa-1985 contracts interface. We all have to work in the trenches of the market interface every day. Give me a CSM that will put some effort into the problems there.
Block Ukx Block Ships and Ammunitions	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:01:00 - [24] Hexxx, I would definetly support your effort. Regards, Block BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Vested Interest Will anyone run for CSM on a platform of pushing for improvements to the primary markets? There is a ton of room for making things better there. I would like to see CCP spent a development cycle for the next big patch on the market/trade interfaces. Simple obvious things like highlighting my own orders in the Market Details screen--why has this never been implemented? Perhaps it's time for a new thread listing these things? Where are our new trade skills like adjusting qty/range on orders and perhaps improvements to the sluggish circa-1985 contracts interface. We all have to work in the trenches of the market interface every day. Give me a CSM that will put some effort into the problems there. Already pushed for that. But it wasn't possible because of the fact that the market takes so much CPU that they had to make it so efficient that it's not possible.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Ricdic Shar Tegral is my hero~~, he's also our lord and saviour~~ Have some decency mate. This is Hexxx's thread and Hexxx's moment. And we both agree, Hexxx is best. My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free?
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:33:00 - [27] Originally by: LaVista Vista Already pushed for that. But it wasn't possible because of the fact that the market takes so much CPU that they had to make it so efficient that it's not possible. But CPUs are cheap! Yeah sure they can say "well you have everything essential to work the market." They could say the same thing about Contracts and we know it's not the case there either. I want the contracts interface to work like Ebay instead of Prodigy(tm) Marketplace. There is vast room for improvement with both interfaces and CCP needs to get some of this stuff in the pipeline. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only improvement to the market interface in the last 16 months has been the addition of the "Sell orders total" at the bottom of the order details screen. Oh and a bunch of filters that do nothing for me as a trader. Everybody uses the market. Everybody! It's time to put some of the bells and whistles on it.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Hexxx I'd like to see NPC goods reacting to over-sold and over-bought conditions, factoring in some kind of randomness and a behind-the-scenes stochastic oscillator driving the highs and lows of any given NPC commodity. I think some kind of volatility variable in some NPC goods pricing would give NPC trade goods some added depth as well. There are some possible problems here....but I think they can be addressed I was actually thinking about getting all rid of randomness. I think we need something a bit more unique and interesting. I think the best way is to have some sort of dependencies tables running everything under the hood. I know it sounds complex, but it might actually not need to be so hard to create. In effect you would simply interlink npc items dependencies in an A.I: / Finite state machine system, so players acting on them would create and change their prices and availability. Linked with a better pricing system the result would be second best to actually governing stations ourselves.. An effect of this would be that very used stations would have a lot of npc activity and items. Also your comment on facility prices and Noobs, an easy solution could be that npc corps have the advantage of never having fees, but having way higher taxing. Thats the easiest solution I can think of really.. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:05:00 - [29] I might consider going for CSM, after Hexxx's second term as CSM member _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Durente Galaica Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:15:00 - [30] +1 vote Hexx here Originally by: Vested Interest Originally by: LaVista Vista Already pushed for that. But it wasn't possible because of the fact that the market takes so much CPU that they had to make it so efficient that it's not possible. But CPUs are cheap! Yeah sure they can say "well you have everything essential to work the market." ... The real kicker is these requests are for UI changes in the client. Meaning either they made some terrible design decisions and are processing data on their servers which should be pushed to the client (which I don't believe is the case) or they don't want to dedicate resources to improve something that works (very likely). I hate to say this but here is one area they should look into taking a page from the playbook of World of Warcraft. Open up (non sensitive) parts of the client (like the UI) to modification by developers. I promise it would not take long before you would see an explosion of quality mods released. CCP, the players, and developers would all benefit. I believe that is where the future lies in online gaming. I'm going to also guess based on the pace of UI changes that the components in their client are probably very tightly coupled. Meaning it would take a near complete rewrite to make this type of change (aka this will never happen). Ah well, one can dream.

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