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POS' In Empire - Profitable?

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Amelia Reign	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:48:00 - [1] Hi i'm new to running and maintaining Pos' and got a few questions. 1. Can it be profitable to run high sec pos' for the purpose of doing simple reactions? 2. Which reactions are the most profitable? 3. What does a decent high sec moon mining pos setup look like? 4. Medium tower.. right? Aiming for maximum profit of course! Any thoughts, ideas or contructive contributions would be of great help to not only me I believe. Thanks in advance, Amelia.
Haid Arcan	Posted - 2009.03.02 18:51:00 - [2] You cannot set up reactions nor moon mine in a highsec POS.
Amelia Reign	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:05:00 - [3] Low sec then :)
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:19:00 - [4] Then your risk vs reward becomes a very different equation and the amount of supporting items along with skills to train enters into the picture. As for profitable or not in its simpliest form, just look at imported moon minerals and PO fuel for a week, and how much your reaction output would sell on the market. Then take this amount and see how weeks to repay for the POS and its structures. After you payback your investment, thats your profit per week. I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce
Velicitia Phenex Industries	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:29:00 - [5] IIRC a LARGE tower is more along the lines of what you're needing for moon mining (meds don't have enough space for everything AND some semblance of defences) you'd better have a fleet to defend said POS in lowsec, not to mention a ton of guns there to make potential assailants rethink that course of action. Now, that won't really save you if they have dreads...
Amelia Reign	Posted - 2009.03.02 20:08:00 - [6] Thanks alot for the input so far guys, boiling it down a bit. 1. Which reactions are the most profitable? 2. What does a decent low sec moon mining pos setup look like? 3. Will it be profitable enough to support it's own fuel cost?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.03.02 20:24:00 - [7] I suggest you look at the fresh thread in the Market Discussion which is exactly about low sec POS profitability. Basically: maybe it's sufficiently (NOT amazingly) profitable, but it's so much effort that you'll give up in some months.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.02 21:49:00 - [8] Edited by: brinelan on 02/03/2009 21:50:26 Originally by: Amelia Reign Thanks alot for the input so far guys, boiling it down a bit. 1. Which reactions are the most profitable? 2. What does a decent low sec moon mining pos setup look like? 3. Will it be profitable enough to support it's own fuel cost? Nobody is going to tell you what to make, that is for you to figure out. 2 there is a post in this very forum that answers taht very qeustion. eve-search.com for that 3 will answer itself as you start running the numbers. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:11:00 - [9] Don't bother with guns. Guns on a POS will not stop it from being destroyed. Never have never will.
Krazemzar Caldari Khaos Heavy Industries Ocularis Inferno	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:56:00 - [10] Guns on a pos will however discourage people from shooting at it just because they can since they know that someone somewhere will get spammed by the pos....

Arpad Elo Gallente Ascendant Mining and Manufacturing Prosperity Rising	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Velicitia you'd better have a fleet to defend said POS in lowsec, not to mention a ton of guns there to make potential assailants rethink that course of action. Now, that won't really save you if they have dreads... Do they get any benefit by blowing up a lowsec POS (other than fun)? Like, they can't take it over right, only destroy it? Also, can they loot it or something?
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.03.03 06:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Amelia Reign 1. Which reactions are the most profitable? 3. Will it be profitable enough to support it's own fuel cost? 1. This is a question that the answer will be wrong for as soon as someone answers it. The most profitable reaction is the one the least people are doing vs the demand. As soon as someone tells you about it, people read it, start doing it, and by the time you have any to sell it will probably be the least profitable. 3. You really just have to work it out, it's not that hard, all the fuel costs / reaction inputs/outputs are based upon an hourly cycle, if you add up the input cost and output value you will get your answer for 1 hour which will determine if it's profitable.
John Hollow Minmatar Afterisk	Posted - 2009.03.03 06:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Velicitia IIRC a LARGE tower is more along the lines of what you're needing for moon mining (meds don't have enough space for everything AND some semblance of defences) you'd better have a fleet to defend said POS in lowsec, not to mention a ton of guns there to make potential assailants rethink that course of action. Now, that won't really save you if they have dreads... Small to large towers all mine the same amount. 100 units/hour. Larger ones just take more fuel and initial startup costs. If you want to start fitting more things (multiple factories, ship building equipment etc) then you will need to upgrade to a larger size. If you are mining a moon that is profitable then you will have to worry more about attackers wanting to take it, than one of the many unprofitable moons out there. Sometimes it's best to use the minerals mined to offset the fuel cost of your star base and make profit off of other things the star base can do (research bpo's, build things, etc).
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.03 08:10:00 - [14] I ran advanced reactions with a large gallente tower. Find a quiet corner of lowsec and become friends with the locals. Last I checked, Hypersynaptic Fibers and Ferrogel were bringing in around 600mil/month/tower, while Fermionic Condensates was losing ISK. The rest of the reactions made under 100mil/month/tower, although with much lower profit volatility. It sometimes helps if you make your product into T2 components - their prices are a tiny bit more stable.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.03 15:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Krazemzar Guns on a pos will however discourage people from shooting at it just because they can since they know that someone somewhere will get spammed by the pos.... That's just silly. This is a non-existant problem. There's very little mail spam when a POS is attacked. It doesn't send mail for each ship. It appears to send mail every certain amount of time. Last med I saw go into reinforced sent out 4 (2x2) whole mails. 2(1x2) for the destruction. It mailed when they started firing and they popped it before it could mail again.
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.03.03 18:00:00 - [16] Originally by: B1FF That's just silly. This is a non-existant problem. There's very little mail spam when a POS is attacked. It doesn't send mail for each ship. It appears to send mail every certain amount of time. Last med I saw go into reinforced sent out 4 (2x2) whole mails. 2(1x2) for the destruction. It mailed when they started firing and they popped it before it could mail again. They popped your tower how fast? So you didn't bother with putting Strontium in it did you? Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.03 18:19:00 - [17] Enough dreads (less then you would think) can put a small tower into reinforced in under 1 siege cycle (10 min) Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.03 18:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Dreamwalker Originally by: B1FF That's just silly. This is a non-existant problem. There's very little mail spam when a POS is attacked. It doesn't send mail for each ship. It appears to send mail every certain amount of time. Last med I saw go into reinforced sent out 4 (2x2) whole mails. 2(1x2) for the destruction. It mailed when they started firing and they popped it before it could mail again. They popped your tower how fast? So you didn't bother with putting Strontium in it did you? Please read and comprehend. You missed the part where I mention reinforced.
Amelia Reign	Posted - 2009.03.04 23:01:00 - [19] Awesome input from everyone, it has shed some light into the corners for me. I cannot seem to find the link containing the rarity of moons/materials, can anyone help me out?
Olga Mokroff School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.03.04 23:12:00 - [20] Edited by: Olga Mokroff on 04/03/2009 23:21:19 Originally by: Amelia Reign Awesome input from everyone, it has shed some light into the corners for me. I cannot seem to find the link containing the rarity of moons/materials, can anyone help me out? http://www.thebabushka.com/eve-online/ low sec moons edit> some POS setups

foobarx	Posted - 2009.03.05 00:04:00 - [21] Originally by: B1FF Don't bother with guns. Guns on a POS will not stop it from being destroyed. Never have never will. This is very bad advice. Guns on a POS won't guarantee its survival, but there's no point in inviting people to attack you.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2009.03.05 01:46:00 - [22] Originally by: B1FF Don't bother with guns. Guns on a POS will not stop it from being destroyed. Never have never will. I wonder if you use the same logic on pvp ships?
PMA	Posted - 2009.03.05 02:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Irish Blend Then your risk vs reward becomes a very different equation and the amount of supporting items along with skills to train enters into the picture. As for profitable or not in its simpliest form, just look at imported moon minerals and PO fuel for a week, and how much your reaction output would sell on the market. Then take this amount and see how weeks to repay for the POS and its structures. After you payback your investment, thats your profit per week. Well the POS tower and modules can be resold and will probably not depreciate in price. It's capital that does not need to be paid off. You just need to work out the total revenue minus total costs.
beor oranes Caldari Skill Level Six Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.05 10:50:00 - [24] My advice: Look at all the reactions, make a spread sheet with how much you need per week of raw materials, how much it produces per week, how many towers and modules you need, how much fuel they take per week, defences (there are programs and spread sheets already made to help with fuel amounts and what each tower can fit), etc. Then sit in Jita and put all the prices for everything into your spread sheet. If after fuel and mineral costs per week your reactions make you money then it is profitable, if not then dont do it. Just remember for advanced reactions you will need pos's making the intermediate materials and then the advanced ones, so you will need several pos's probably large...start up cost will be into the billions. So if you are doing a reaction that is profitable but is only making you a few mil per week...then its gonna take you months/years before you actually recoup the intial investment. On the subject of defences; if someone whats to drop your tower, they will. A decent Dread fleet can drop a tower into reinforced and then destroy it once the stront runs out, in only a cycle or 2. What most defences do is stop people bringing small fleets or opportunists with a smaller capital fleet from dropping your tower. As long as you dont put your Pos down on a moon of value, most people ignore your Pos's, unless they have something against you or your corporation. So put reaction Pos's (unless in secure 0.0 space) on totally worthless moons.
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.05 13:05:00 - [25] I wouldn't bother with guns, not on low-sec POS. Do put up as many shield hardeners as you can, though. I'd like to think that people are smart and only reason they'd attack your low-sec POS is profit - to ransom, loot or set up their own - and do so with least effort possible. If they see that your POS is so reinforced that it would take them more effort (time) then it's worth you'll go look for an easier target. That's my theory, at least, and I'm only human. (If they are motivated by something else then profit you're so screwed. ) Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.


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