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Are the Matar in "Political Stasis"?

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Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Cwn Annwn Clan	Posted - 2009.03.06 07:18:00 - [31] Political Stasis? I understand the charge but... I don't see how anyone could take it seriously. About 8 months ago I put out a call in this very forum, for a return to a Matari-style governance structure. A month or so later, Shakor announced his plans to push the Republic in this direction. I stated at the time I would wait and see wether his actions matched his words before saying I support him. Let me make clear...I still do not know his true intentions, nor motivations. I am not a 'Shakorite' yet. However, 'political stasis' is a bit of a heavy charge at the moment. Yes, our relations with the Thukker have, and continue to improve. The elders have returned. The Starkmanir and Nefantur are serious about setting down in empire and are making land claims. Former slaves are returning. Ammatar leaders are seeing the error of their ways. It was recently announced there was a boom in Matari culture, especially in culinary and historical fields. The Gallente are performing public executions. The Caldari are deeply split over Heth. The Ammarians are divided over Empress Jamyl. Amidst all this turmoil, the Republic is so stable that charges of 'political stasis' are made. And against this backdrop, we are said to be 'in shambles'? Failing? The lack of a call for delegates for a new parliament is due to the fact that 'parliament' is not part of a a Matari-style government. You do not see a new structure coming into place because there is no new structure. The structure is in place already. It was always there, right below the graft that was parliament and Gallente-style governance.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.03.06 10:13:00 - [32] Stasis is only bad when the state you are in is not in your advantage. Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Cwn Annwn Clan	Posted - 2009.03.06 11:22:00 - [33] Ah, yes. That would explain why so many Amarrians are getting worked up, as well as the Gallente that started this discussion. I am curious as to where Electus Matari stands on this issue.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.03.06 13:33:00 - [34] Electus Matari as an alliance stands behind the Minmatar Republic and its lawful leaders, as always. Individual opinions on Sanmatar Shakor's government vary, but we remain loyal. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Edouard Creeslar Gallente Placid Institute of Cultural Studies	Posted - 2009.03.06 14:13:00 - [35] First let me say the recent announcement and official call for Tribal Leaders to sit down is a very positive step. With any luck this could mean the beginning of the formation of a government that will properly reflect the Matar society. Concern the comments of Starsparrow, I find it very offensive that I am judged on the make up of my DNA and not on my actions. If you wish to debate my observations then feel free, if you must resort to personal attacks please turn off your comms systems and move along. Edouard Creeslar Director of Cultural Studies *Placid Institute of Cultural Studies*
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.06 14:43:00 - [36] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Electus Matari as an alliance stands behind the Minmatar Republic and its lawful leaders, as always. A politician's answer if ever I heard one. For the record, just who does EM consider to be the lawful leader of the Republic? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.06 14:45:00 - [37] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 06/03/2009 14:46:41 Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow The Ammarians are divided over Empress Jamyl. The Theology Council, the Privy Council as a whole, the Five Houses individually, the Speakers of Truth and every single body that counts in the Empire is behind the Empress. Hardly a division. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Jade Blackwind	Posted - 2009.03.06 16:07:00 - [38] Edited by: Jade Blackwind on 06/03/2009 16:09:27 Just a side note: everyone seems to praise Shakor for improving relations with the Thukkers. Indeed, the relations between the Republic and the Thukker tribe got better. Including the open borders policy (with a 0.0 entity - smugglers rejoice!). But I recall no change whatsoever in the relations between the Thukkers and the Angel Cartel. The friend of my worst enemy is my friend? Is that normal now?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.03.06 16:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Electus Matari as an alliance stands behind the Minmatar Republic and its lawful leaders, as always. A politician's answer if ever I heard one. For the record, just who does EM consider to be the lawful leader of the Republic? Why, Sanmatar Shakor. Who else? Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Casiella Truza Ecliptic Rift	Posted - 2009.03.06 19:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Jade Blackwind Edited by: Jade Blackwind on 06/03/2009 16:09:27 But I recall no change whatsoever in the relations between the Thukkers and the Angel Cartel. The friend of my worst enemy is my friend? Is that normal now? I didn't think that the Amarrs and the Angels were one and the same. -- IC Twitter

Jade Blackwind	Posted - 2009.03.06 19:58:00 - [41] Edited by: Jade Blackwind on 06/03/2009 20:01:58 Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: Jade Blackwind But I recall no change whatsoever in the relations between the Thukkers and the Angel Cartel. The friend of my worst enemy is my friend? Is that normal now? I didn't think that the Amarrs and the Angels were one and the same. Well, they do have some practices in common. Like capturing slaves. But okay, let me rephrase that: "...The friend of my worst parasite is my friend?.." :P
Aindrias Amarr Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.06 23:57:00 - [42] Extremism always breeds irrelevance. Hence the "Political Statis".
Casiella Truza Ecliptic Rift	Posted - 2009.03.07 00:06:00 - [43] Originally by: Aindrias Extremism always breeds irrelevance. Hence the "Political Statis". Wow, that from CVA? How delicious. -- IC Twitter
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2009.03.07 00:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Aindrias Extremism always breeds irrelevance. Um. What? Pilot, this might possibly be true in peacetime, but in time of war extremism breeds slaughter. A full array of autocannons focusing fire on your ship's structural weak points is many things, but "irrelevant" is not one.
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Cwn Annwn Clan	Posted - 2009.03.07 11:14:00 - [45] Mister Creeslar, you were referred to as Gallente. I explained why I judged you. In case you missed it : Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow I see little merit in reading your opinions on other races when you have shown yourself to be self-obsessed and prone to ignoring fact. If your 'study's' are based on your personal observations, rather than fact, you should stop masquerading as a scientist. You are an opinionist. I'm still waiting for a response from you on that one.
Edouard Creeslar Gallente Placid Institute of Cultural Studies	Posted - 2009.03.07 20:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow Mister Creeslar, you were referred to as Gallente. I explained why I judged you. In case you missed it : Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow I see little merit in reading your opinions on other races when you have shown yourself to be self-obsessed and prone to ignoring fact. If your 'study's' are based on your personal observations, rather than fact, you should stop masquerading as a scientist. You are an opinionist. I'm still waiting for a response from you on that one. I am curious what "fact" you think I ignored? As for self obsessed, not sure I see that on either. Also when it comes to cultural studies you might wasnt to understand that it is usually opinion based since specific quantification as in other science is not truly possible. I masquerade as nothing, I am what I am, an observer. I study what people do, examine the history behind it and then show what I find. If you wish to ignore my work please feel free, you will not hurt my feelings in so doing. If you wish to dispute my work and present facts for an intellectual debate, I would welcome it. I am after all only human and not above making mistakes and through true debate many times new ideas can develope. But if the entire basis of your arguments with me have to do with my genetic makeup and your opinions of my opinions then I will happliy ignore you. Edouard Creeslar Director of Cultural Studies *Placid Institute of Cultural Studies*
Esna Pitoojee Amarr TalCorp Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.08 01:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Jade Blackwind But I recall no change whatsoever in the relations between the Thukkers and the Angel Cartel. Actually if you search through the Galnet news database, you will find several articles noting internal strife in the Cartel; one such article places the blame for said strife on Thukkers, inspired by the return of the Elders, attempting to break away from the Cartel and return to the Republic proper. The question is, how deeply do these fractures run? Are we looking at a near-total separation from the Cartel by the Thukkers, or merely a few especially patriotic individuals? ---------------------------------------------- Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you. My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp.
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Cwn Annwn Clan	Posted - 2009.03.08 08:49:00 - [48] Pilot Creesler, I am curious what your facts even are. I said as much and I asked you to present them. Instead, you chose to accuse me of being a racist. How scientific. How quantitative. How can I possibly debate you on your points when your points are not based on fact? When you refuse to present your facts when asked? When you continue to ignore fact? What point would there be? I explained exactly what I am judging you on, and you again, accuse me of racism. What a stellar intellect you are.
Edouard Creeslar Gallente Placid Institute of Cultural Studies	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:29:00 - [49] Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow Pilot Creesler, I am curious what your facts even are. I said as much and I asked you to present them. Instead, you chose to accuse me of being a racist. How scientific. How quantitative. How can I possibly debate you on your points when your points are not based on fact? When you refuse to present your facts when asked? When you continue to ignore fact? What point would there be? I explained exactly what I am judging you on, and you again, accuse me of racism. What a stellar intellect you are. This is truly fascinating, you accuse me of not using facts, I ask where I did this and you counter by saying my points are not based on facts and you question my intellect. Now worries however, as you have made my point for me and your posts will now be ignored. Edouard Creeslar Director of Cultural Studies *Placid Institute of Cultural Studies*
Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:20:00 - [50] Saying that the Minmatar nations political structure is in stasis on the basis that you cannot see any radical or momentous change is ludicrous. A government is not successfull because its actions are constantly brought in to the public realm as news worthy or because it constantly re-invents itself. In fact dynamic change and constant redefinition is only presenting an illusion of a vibrant government, hiding the reality which is that it is incapable of carrying out, or understanding it's peoples needs, in short its ability to govern efficiently has been paralysed. You do not see a republic parliament in meeting all the time becuase the day to day governance of the people is now, as it should rightfully be, being carried out at a Tribal level by those leaders which each tribe has, in whatever way they deem to be best for them, chosen to lead them. This is in fact the way most of our lives were ordered, even when the old Gallente model of parliament was in full swing. Our politics as such have never traditionally been seen as a seperate part of our lives, they permeate from the family, through the clan, tribal and up to national level, and as such do not take the form of a seperate political layer or entity this is the biggest reason the Gallente idea of democracyt failed, it tried to seperate politics from people. And when something is an integral part of your daily life it loses meaning when viewed as a seperate item, indeed it loses its very definition and becomes unclear and vapourous. This is why you do not see a great political machine within the Minmatar nation, the tribes and the people are the politics, but they are so much more, and they are inseperable, it is impossible to study, identify, categorise and understand one component in isolation to the whole. Of course such an organic and devolved governance needs direction and steering, and to that end Shakor has called a meeting of the tribal leaders who will discuss and come to aggreement, or not maybe, on the directions we should be taking, but they will not sit in isolation in their chamber and order how the tribes are to achieve our goals, this will be done when they return to their tribes as the ideas will permeate down the system from National, to tribal, to clan to family, each working in their own way, but each with the idea of a shared and common understanding. You will not see this overtly, it will not cause endless debate in the news, it will not require a change to our current systems of governance it will happen within the existing framework, because that framework is a part of our lives already, we live it and we can adapt it without destroying it or making it something new. Do not also make the mistake of believing that Shakor is a leader in the true sense, nor that he has absolute power because of his title. He is a spokesman for the tribes, he has his title because the tribes have agreed to work together to protect the interests of all matari, he neither needs to pander to the masses for favour, nor is he capable of forcing the tribes to act as he wishes; he is a symbol and catalyst of the Tribes pledge to act together as a nation when required, nothing more, if he appears to lead it is merely because a symbol is always the first thing you can identify when examining a movement who's origins are hard to pinpoint. Dae.

Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:26:00 - [51] So much for stasis. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kleoptoleme Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.08 18:04:00 - [52] Well said Ms Elsebeth Rhiannon, I was about to make that point myself grins
Alica Wildfire Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency	Posted - 2009.03.08 18:42:00 - [53] Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 08/03/2009 18:44:23 The screen flashes on and a giggling girl is so near to the cam that it is blurred and distorted. She isn't able to bring out a simple understandable word and just slips down the console, falling on the ground with a hearable 'tumb' and more giggling. From the background some voices can be heared. +I told you to keep her in her room!½ +But she ordered me.. She's general!½ +First of all she's dead drunk! Bring her back to her room until she is sober! What's this? Communication on?...½ The screen fades into white noise. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
Esna Pitoojee Amarr TalCorp Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.08 20:39:00 - [54] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon So much for stasis. So much for stasis indeed. I imagine that representative is feeling rather silly right now, having had his entire point largely smashed to pieces. ---------------------------------------------- Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you. My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp.
Edouard Creeslar Gallente Placid Institute of Cultural Studies	Posted - 2009.03.09 00:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon So much for stasis. I completely agree, this is truly exciting news. It is wonderful to see such a surge forward in forging a new Matar government after so much time of no apparent movement. This is truly exciting times for the Matar people, enjoy it and embrace it. Edouard Creeslar Director of Cultural Studies *Placid Institute of Cultural Studies*


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