| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
   |
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:18:00 -
[1]
Wont wormhole space soon become overpopulated with pos because its fairly easy to setup and maintain... but near impossible to take down if you cant get cap ships in?
|
rubico1337
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: rubico1337 on 05/03/2009 22:19:42
not any more
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=644
|
Sciencegeek deathdealer
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:25:00 -
[3]
? you can still have pos in there?
|
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:25:00 -
[4]
As I see: Yes
|
Col Callahan
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 23:08:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Col Callahan on 05/03/2009 23:08:26
 Quote:
Additionally, there are no minable moon minerals in W-space.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
This would have fixed the issue of high ends getting so high because of a broken system.
Rage, well, guess thats it for me. no need to go to W-space any moar, T3, right
|
Assassin Zer0
Amarr
PURE Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 00:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Col Callahan
Edited by: Col Callahan on 05/03/2009 23:08:26
Quote:
Additionally, there are no minable moon minerals in W-space.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
This would have fixed the issue of high ends getting so high because of a broken system.
Rage, well, guess thats it for me. no need to go to W-space any moar, T3, right
Similar to my own thoughts friend. Stripping the moons of minerals in w-space was a bad call.
If your a human being I love you =D unless your stupid =P
WARNING: My ship made of imaginary pixels might kill your ship made of imaginary pixels. |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 00:40:00 -
[7]
i actually think its a good idea because it keeps WH space less populated.. It should be easy to get into and not filled to the brim with pos's and people.. i hope they keep adding lots of wh systems.. if not more then the regular. i think it would add lots to eve.. :)
-geek
|
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 00:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Assassin Zer0
Stripping the moons of minerals in w-space was a bad call.
I'm with you on that. Currently a medium sized Alliance would be hard pressed to even get hold of a low end moon in known space without a sizable cap fleet because many of them are farmed by 0.0 alliance alt corps. I was hoping W-Space would afford a few more opportunities for the little guy in Eve who was at least trying to get out of Empire.
Does anyone know whether the ore in W-Space is worth anything? Last I heard there weren't any roids at all but that was some time ago and it may have changed since.
I have tried to check this out for myself but up until now even with only two working days before roll-out scanning on Sisi appears to have been so fubar that only those with time to burn appear to have been able to make much headway.
|
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 01:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Does anyone know whether the ore in W-Space is worth anything? Last I heard there weren't any roids at all but that was some time ago and it may have changed since.
There are roids there, but you need to probe the belts, as they are hidden. Pretty much all ore types are there as far as I can tell.
Sleepers will visit these sites now and then, so you need protection for your miners.
|
Gaius Aemilius
Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 01:36:00 -
[10]
I think a POS will provide logistical benefits. It will offer resupply and repair venues. As well as allowing on-site production of ammo and ships.
If you're ambitious you could bring along arrays to do almost everything you need getting done. So to speak.
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 02:45:00 -
[11]
ore in Wpsace? if you are thinking 10+ belts in a -0.8 system then no.
there's also different levels of WSpace. i've mapped some systems and even in "dangerous unknown space" (yes there's also simple "unknown space" according to wormhole showinfo's ^^) i've only found 2-3 plexes which each then had 4 bistot, 4 crokite, 6 arkonor
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 02:48:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 06/03/2009 02:49:02
'deadly unknown space' has plenty of ore.
Besides, once you mined them all away the sites should respawn, or am I wong on this? (didnt actually try to mine  )
|
Atrossoe
Gallente
Lost Nomads
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 06:35:00 -
[13]
One has to wonder if you can put a POS up in unknown space that you can also put up a POS jump array there as well.
I think its something some of us should investigate before this thing goes live. Because if you can get to the W-system without using the wormhole by just anchoring a jump array then I think it would be alot easier to maintain a POS in that area of space with out having to worry about the worm hole blinking out of existence.
Atrossoe
|
Agrilad
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 06:53:00 -
[14]
When wormhole space was announced. I started dreaming of building an alliance and taking over a system. Build up one of the first Outposts in w-space. Then they took the dream away.
I changed my focus and started thinking of the moons that would be unclaimed, and the riches they could give me. Then they took the dream away.
So now I sit here wondering why I would want to go into w-space after a few weeks of newness. It is just one big area to Raid. no reason to stay. You may even call it the biggest dungeon raid ever made. Oh I am sure I'll find tid bits here and there to make money with. But there is really no reason to stay once the newness fades.
Why CCP, the owner of the biggest sand box ever is choosing now to limit it so much I don't know. These are artificial limitations you are putting in place to limit your players inventiveness. Why are you limiting us to small dreams and denying us the big dreams. It is the big dreams that drive the world and greatness.
|
Agrilad
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 06:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Atrossoe
One has to wonder if you can put a POS up in unknown space that you can also put up a POS jump array there as well.
I think its something some of us should investigate before this thing goes live. Because if you can get to the W-system without using the wormhole by just anchoring a jump array then I think it would be alot easier to maintain a POS in that area of space with out having to worry about the worm hole blinking out of existence.
Atrossoe
Jump Arrays require a certain level of Sovereignty and there is no Sovereignty in w-space.
|
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 06:55:00 -
[16]
No minerals is a good step.
This way the big allys have less interest of "owning" the new system by just spam deathstars.
This let new/small allys room to grow and get expirens with POSing and semi-0.0 habitating.
It is still a good idear to settle a POS in W-Space if you plan to life there.
It gave you a save-spot where you can store backup material (ships, moduls) and collect your loot until you have enough to haul it to highsec. Plus you can ancore refining/assambly arrays to get a small amunition production maybe.
Oh and be warned, T3 ships can NOT be assambled or altered at a POS!
So if you like to use them in W-Space you must predeside which combination you like to use and fly them 1 by 1 into the system ;).
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 06:58:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 06/03/2009 06:59:42
This just in: You wont be able to set up an invulnerable ISKmachine through w-space. More at 11
Seriously, does anyone realize what moon mining would do to w-space? There's no effective way to take down a halfway-decently defended POS in w-space, as you can't bring in sufficient numbers of caps. It would turn w-space static, which the devs don't want. It's not "0.0 except your POS can't really be sieged), it's w-space.
If you don't want to go into w-space as a result of these changes, then the rest of us will harvest the w-space riches.
Quote:
Why CCP, the owner of the biggest sand box ever is choosing now to limit it so much I don't know. These are artificial limitations you are putting in place to limit your players inventiveness. Why are you limiting us to small dreams and denying us the big dreams. It is the big dreams that drive the world and greatness.
Because becoming rich and powerful in EVE should require effort, thought, and innovation, rather than just being the first one to drop a deathstar POS in w-space?
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 07:21:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 06/03/2009 07:21:17
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 06/03/2009 06:59:42
This just in: You wont be able to set up an invulnerable ISKmachine through w-space. More at 11
Seriously, does anyone realize what moon mining would do to w-space? There's no effective way to take down a halfway-decently defended POS in w-space, as you can't bring in sufficient numbers of caps. It would turn w-space static, which the devs don't want. It's not "0.0 except your POS can't really be sieged), it's w-space.
If you don't want to go into w-space as a result of these changes, then the rest of us will harvest the w-space riches.
You'd think they could do something with the Tactical Environments that would make a POS more vulnerable. Or perhaps Sleeper POS burninators. Risk and all that.
Though there's nothing stopping them from adding these features later on, I suppose.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 07:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
No minerals is a good step.
This way the big allys have less interest of "owning" the new system by just spam deathstars.
This let new/small allys room to grow and get expirens with POSing and semi-0.0 habitating.
And how the small alliances will grow? WH space can be (potentially) rewarding at a player level, but I don't see any reward at alliance level.
So how the alliance/corp will grow? Saying "half of all you get in WH space should go to the alliance/corp"?
Having richer corp member don't mean that the corporation has growth, only that some corp member will be richer.
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 09:33:00 -
[20]
another reason wspace will end up basically a waste of an expansion though ccp could fix it later by putting moon mins in and ..... limited combat modules attached to poses to make them more fair as far as takedown and defenses.
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 09:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And how the small alliances will grow? WH space can be (potentially) rewarding at a player level, but I don't see any reward at alliance level.
I can imagine that setting up a POS as a base for t3 component/material harvesting would be quite profitable for a small alliance, especially in the beginning when t3 is bound to fetch huge prices.
|
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 09:43:00 -
[22]
strip out the minerals youre still able to farm the sleepers for components, gas clouds, mining sites, hack and salvage sites and what not. So yeah a non moon mining but processing, ammo making ship replacement sotrage depot and t3 production centre are a good idea
|
|
CCP Applebabe
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 10:46:00 -
[23]
Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion" forum.
Applebabe
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang |
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 12:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And how the small alliances will grow? WH space can be (potentially) rewarding at a player level, but I don't see any reward at alliance level.
I can imagine that setting up a POS as a base for t3 component/material harvesting would be quite profitable for a small alliance, especially in the beginning when t3 is bound to fetch huge prices.
I disagree with you. It would be profitable for the players that set it up but not for the whole corp/alliance.
In my experience in 0.0 the people that organize that kind of operation, an operation that require to kill and salvage the sleepers rats and hack the sleeper sites, are quite possessive of the special materials recovered. Think of it has doing a high level complex.
The individual player will count the time spent and the ship lost fighting sleepers and players and demand a return from that.
In 0.0 the differences are that:
- a large part of the loot is low quality material that players will freely donate to the corp (while WH space will have only high quality drops, more or less the equivalent of factions drops);
- the corporation will get the tax on the rats bounties (no bounties on Sleepers);
- the risk (and losses) from ratting is way lower than in WH space.
One more difference is that each single operation in WH space will be restricted to the players that entered the space together, with no input from other player in the corp (unless the wormhole was a big one and there was sapce for further reinforcement after the first group reached W-space).
That mean that the group that did W-space system A today will divide the spoils between the group members, not at corp level.
Without a mid term colonization of W-space there is no system (at least that I can see now) that will allow all the corp members (and even less all alliance members) to participate to a single operation.
The long therm organization and coordination required to profit for a moon mining operation would keep a corp together and get them to share profits, the short term organization and focus on "we need to be on line all at the same time" needed to profit from a raid (even extended raid) system will benefit more subgroups within the corp that share the same play hours.
The limits of my English make the explanation a bit unclear, but what I mean is that a group that enter WH space and stay there several days, then exiting in some distant region will have little incentive to share the result of his hard labour with those that didn't participated, so raiding WH space will make the player richer and stronger, not necessarily his corp or alliance.
|
Psihius
Caldari
Atomic Scrapyard
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 16:10:00 -
[25]
Venkul Mul
Even setting up a pos isn't so easy. But when it's done, many people can use it. Not only your corp - you could provide services to other people what end up in your system. You probably will need scouts to scout out opened wormholes so to give a signal to your allies where they have to get the supplies to, so to get them into W-space. Maybe big alliances with their sovereignty and balanced out logistics are good in 0.0, in W-space there will be more little corps, on smaller ships - but their actions are more rapid and they can move around fast. there definitely will be formed new small alliances of corps witch will work together. It's an opportunity for new forces to develop. And what's really good - if a small corp will get a pos in W-space and able to maintain it there - they can defend it even if a Goonswarm or BoB's decide to move in. they just lack have that stupid blob power. I see it as an opportunity for independent brilliant CEO's and FC to develop and rise, be able to show their real skill. Tactics will rule the world.
|
AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 16:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer
...easy to setup and maintain...
Dude, do you realize the nightmare it will be to keep that POS fueled? If not, get on the test server and start probing for a WH....
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 18:34:00 -
[27]
Erm, does anybody seriously think that if there was a 'static' income in w-space that could be easily claimed and defended by setting up POS'es the big powerblocks wouldn't just take it?
I mean.. come on, how naive can you be?
Do you really think new or small alliances would be allowed to take their part of w-space? Containing valuable moon minerals? Unmolested?
Yeah, sure..
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 21:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Erm, does anybody seriously think that if there was a 'static' income in w-space that could be easily claimed and defended by setting up POS'es the big powerblocks wouldn't just take it?
I mean.. come on, how naive can you be?
Do you really think new or small alliances would be allowed to take their part of w-space? Containing valuable moon minerals? Unmolested?
Yeah, sure..
seeing how wormholes work you have a stange definition of easy. also as several times in several threats stated just putting it up wont be enough.
maybe you think other people are naive but i think you just dont got confidence in people to pull stuff of larger scale of.
goons are the best example for where dedication can bring you... *yeah with metagaming but that card can be plaied on both sides, stil they dont gave up after syndicate*
also no one said they wont be unmolested. no matter who owns the pos has to play by the same rules. no cynojammer, no titans,.... just the better organization and fcing wins. so you will see entitys taking on those moons even from bigger alliances just to see what happens.
a tower constantly put in reinforcement also spoils no wealth and can get unintresting to hold on over time, not to mention a lot depends on the time its sieged.
the question is also if a tower being attacked in wormholespace *if a person owns more than one* will spill out the system so that you know which "pos gunner alts" you have to login if there are even any.
|
Hariya
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 22:01:00 -
[29]
Sure, let the people have POS'es in wormhole space... Just make sure to add the scripted sleeper 50 dreadnaughts visit each one daily. 
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.07 09:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Erm, does anybody seriously think that if there was a 'static' income in w-space that could be easily claimed and defended by setting up POS'es the big powerblocks wouldn't just take it?
I mean.. come on, how naive can you be?
Do you really think new or small alliances would be allowed to take their part of w-space? Containing valuable moon minerals? Unmolested?
Yeah, sure..
Look it this way: setting up a POS in WH space and keeping it operative require to keep several fairly skilled characters there. A list:
- at least 2 probers (you always risk losing one to a small wormhole or enemy action, so at least 1 back up is indispensable);
- 1, better 2 characters that can operate the different industrial processes of the POS and the guns;
- at least 2 haulers for the fuel (one should be ready to make a run to buy it if the WH open in a usable system and the other is a back up);
- some good fighter to kill interlopers or they could easily block your refueling operations (bubble the WH entry point and kill the hauler).
Even if the characters have multiple jobs at the same time less that 5 character for each W-space system will end in a failure. A more credible number, with some space for losses and harvesting of W-space resources beside the moon minerals, is at least 10, with some of them industrialist churning out replacement ships in system.
Your really think that alliances controlling 0.0 k-space can easily spare 10 skilled characters for each W-space system? They will lose the K-space very fast.
At the same time they will be benefiting from the K-space moon harvesting that has way lower manpower requirements (1 character every few days).
It is a matter of profit against effort against manpower required.
What for a little alliance/medium corp is a big profit and worth the effort, for a big alliance can be small profit.
A corp or a small alliance without k-space holdings could easily move in one W-space system and profit from it, a big alliance with good holdings would have to chose between reducing K-space control and getting some good W-space system or keeping the K-space. It seem a win -win option for EVE to me.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |