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ghost st	Posted - 2009.03.08 10:04:00 - [1] Covops are the only ships in the game with bonuses to probing, but are the worst in terms of survivability if they lose cloak. The majority of these new plexes force you to warpin at a specific point, which automatically will decloak the unlucky covops pilot who decides to warp to his scan result. Where the smarter sleeper ships will rip you a new one if you arent able to bug out immediately (which can be a problem due to lag, position of celestial objects, etc) Covops should be able to warping to a scan result without having to worry about getting instapop (as thier tanks are made of a combination of paper mache and fluff). Warping in at range isnt always an option (due to plexes being easy mode if you warp in at range and start taking them out before they can burn to you). At least the entrance point should be clear of stuff that will decloak you instantly. tl:dr version: Covops are made of fluff and will instapop when warping to sleeper plexes. Needs to be changed so they have a chance to perform thier role.
Avalira Caldari Pax Minor Asylum	Posted - 2009.03.08 10:09:00 - [2] 1) Initiate warp to scan result 2) Cancel warp 3) Warp to 100km Now you're safe. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its been fixed. All in all its one of the more embarrassing mistakes I made, but it made game design laugh. Now lets never speak of this again.
Alex Raptos Caldari The Firestorm Millennium	Posted - 2009.03.08 10:13:00 - [3] Shouldnt need to rely on an (IMO) extremely broken game mechanic.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.08 10:18:00 - [4] Well, even EVE cluster power isn't infinite. you need something to save it's resources. Deadspace spawning mechanics is one of them. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Kobayashi Wu	Posted - 2009.03.08 11:12:00 - [5] This is a very serious concern. From testing on Singularity, my corp have lost several Covert Ops frigates this way. As it stands now, wormhole exploration sites are deathtraps. Plain and simple. If you warp a covert ops ship to any exploration site in a wormhole, count on being de-cloaked, locked and destroyed before you can escape. This indeed spoils any viability of using covert ops ships for exploration in wormholes.
jinkoti boslin2 Firehawks The Church.	Posted - 2009.03.08 13:15:00 - [6] Edited by: jinkoti boslin2 on 08/03/2009 13:16:55 Good trick is to warp to a safespot, eject from ship and warp to the plex in your pod. Sounds crazy, and is.. but gives you a chance to check out the plex safely and see what strategy you may want to use.. One caveat. DON'T warp from a safespot withing 1-2 AU of the plex.. you wont be able to get back to your pod until its completed! (Yes i did have to get help to finish a plex just to retrieve my Helios with sisters probes fitted :( I know that people will flame this with "What about people scanning out your ship and stealing it?" All I can say is I have used this trick countless times and NEVER lost a ship through someone finding it in space... Edit: Alternatively use the easy 3 steps posted earlier on the page, i may try that one myself
Amael Galenus Mighty Moshin Emo Rangers	Posted - 2009.03.08 13:41:00 - [7] Originally by: jinkoti boslin2 Edited by: jinkoti boslin2 on 08/03/2009 13:16:55 Good trick is to warp to a safespot, eject from ship and warp to the plex in your pod. I tried this and it doesn't work- as soon as you eject from your cov-ops, your scan results disappear (the scanner resets). The only way to get a bookmark of the plex/site in order to warp to it in a pod is to go there in your cov-ops first. I agree with the op- it's realy annoying, defeats the point of using a cov-ops for exploring and it's just plain stupid (Aura: "I'm sorry, your 50mil ship is no longer cloaked because of a small cloud of dust/warp beacon that you can't see....")
Herkannon Caldari Radio Maryja - Hard Rock Station C0VEN	Posted - 2009.03.08 13:55:00 - [8] Well, if u lost a few covops while simple scanning at SISI, then u were doing something wrong. I found lots of sites, with rats or without em at first site, but I didnt lose even ONCE covops here at SISI. Being frigate t2 ship gives u a lot of time to bookmark site and get out of there, if not, there u are too slow - change profession :) Covoops with cover cloak is more then fine as it is now.
Winters Chill Amarr Mutants And Outcasts	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:12:00 - [9] Just like cynos and faction warfare "battle sites" another wierd, ill concieved, 100% ship loss mechanic from CCP.
Tsabrock Gallente Circle of Friends	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:13:00 - [10] I agree with the poster also. K-Space exploration sites are not usually dangerous enough that a Covert Ops pilot can't get out of it before getting popped. W-Space, on the other hand is a completely different story. Not only does EVERYTHING need to be scanned down, the Sleepers that are out there usually lock very quickly with many Covert Ops ships made of spit and bailing wire (when not made with the aformentioned materials), a 1-shot-kill is actually very realistic, and a slight bit of lag or a misclicked button would spell doom for the pilot. Ejecting doesn't work, as observed by somebody else - you loose any scan results you might have had. There's the other 3-step trick that might work, but not everybody knows about it, and it could technically be considered an exploit (and thus eventually be 'fixed'). It never seemed logical why you couldn't warp to a given signature, other than as a mechanic to make Covert Ops go into Harms Way. Coverts Ops are not supposed to be in Harms Way. --- I don't read the forums all the time here - if you read something here and want to respond to me directly, EVE-Mail me, and I'll eventually read it.
Draknishar Directive XIII	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:37:00 - [11] I don't know how it works but could you concievably warp your fleet to the result like you can warp somebody to a stargate or whatever? Even if that works I guess it's not optimal but could help quite a bit. :)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Draknishar I don't know how it works but could you concievably warp your fleet to the result like you can warp somebody to a stargate or whatever? Even if that works I guess it's not optimal but could help quite a bit. :) Doesn't seem to work. Right clicking as both scout AND fleet leader showed me nothing but the usual garbage. This was with my alt on the same grid as me, me uncloaked, etc. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:05:00 - [13] My alliance too, has lost a few cov ops to decloaking. This has cost us at least a few hundred million ISK. This is ahuge financial burden, and is unacceptable. Give these ships BC CPU/PG and more lows so we can all fit large tanks. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
General Meridus Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:33:00 - [14] I'm not sure I understand this. Just warp 100 off result. If you find yourself decloaked at that range, you will have time to leave. Drop a book mark, and come back at a different distance. If you need to make a warp in point for a gang, come at a distance and motor in. I've yet to be locked by a Sleeper in a Cov Ops.
Tsabrock Gallente Circle of Friends	Posted - 2009.03.08 18:03:00 - [15] Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, this is just speculation: I'm wondering if what happens is the first person that warps to a site (and thus causes the site to spawn), ends up at 0 meters regardless of the range they set. After that, you can (usually) warp to whatever range you want. Also, this is how the 3-step trick works, by tricking the site to fully spawn before getting to it. I didn't loose any Covert Ops either in w-space, but I've a good connection and seldom get lag. But it did seem the Sleepers locked rather quickly when I did arrive... very little delay like there normally would be on standard k-space sites. --- I don't read the forums all the time here - if you read something here and want to respond to me directly, EVE-Mail me, and I'll eventually read it.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.08 18:06:00 - [16] Yes, you are wrong. It doesn't work like that. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Brachah	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:06:00 - [17] Quick question... Currently Cov-Ops have a bonus to scan time, but as I understand it all probes now have a 10 sec timer, making that irrelevant. What do Cov-Ops now have in Apocrypha to replace that? And is it worth it? Specifically - as I can fit a 220 CPU probe launcher on my Pilgrim, am I as well to use that instead?
Demeterus Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:20:00 - [18] Edited by: Demeterus on 08/03/2009 21:21:37 "Covert Ops Skill Bonus: -98% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level and 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators" From the descriprion of my anathema on Sisi. Sisters launchers have "5% bonus to strength of scan probes." So the bonus will change from scan duration to scan strength. They require 210 cpu and 1 pg, the sisters launchers. Normal launchers require 220 cpu. --- Wtf happened to my sig now?
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:48:00 - [19] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 08/03/2009 21:53:58 Originally by: Tsabrock I didn't loose any Covert Ops either in w-space, but I've a good connection and seldom get lag. But it did seem the Sleepers locked rather quickly when I did arrive... very little delay like there normally would be on standard k-space sites. This is actually something that could get looked into if you ask me. At the moment with their godlike targeting speed a cruiser size ship (with 3x nano in lows for decent agility without sig explosion) you are unable to warp out again even if you do nothing than spamming the warp-to for a celestial. I mean, it wouldnt seriously make them any weaker if we'd get a grace delay of maybe 3 seconds before they start nuking stuff. Not only for probers, but also for people warping their ship in there to fight, its kinda annoying already taking damage while your UI is still coping with loading all the stuff in there, would be cool if there was at least time to get some transversal going.
Lady Aja Caldari IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2009.03.09 00:19:00 - [20] OP and others like them are morons... answer is simple. warp in a corp mate with you ( them in a pod ) and you cancel warp b4 entering warp. get them to book mark the area on arrival... then do what comes naturally.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.03.09 00:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Lady Aja warp in a corp mate with you ( them in a pod ) and you cancel warp b4 entering warp. get them to book mark the area on arrival... Good thing you can ask the GMs to spawn corpies in pods when you need to bookmark a site. Think before you post tbh, a probing ship shouldnt need an alt in a pod to bookmark the sites.
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.03.09 00:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Lady Aja OP and others like them are morons... answer is simple. warp in a corp mate with you ( them in a pod ) and you cancel warp b4 entering warp. get them to book mark the area on arrival... then do what comes naturally. This is a work around for a broken mechanic, not a solution to an in-game challenge. Any solution that involves abusing AI programming that says - don't target pods - is a **** work around. In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net
jinkoti boslin2 Firehawks The Church.	Posted - 2009.03.09 00:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Amael Galenus Originally by: jinkoti boslin2 Edited by: jinkoti boslin2 on 08/03/2009 13:16:55 Good trick is to warp to a safespot, eject from ship and warp to the plex in your pod. I tried this and it doesn't work- as soon as you eject from your cov-ops, your scan results disappear (the scanner resets). The only way to get a bookmark of the plex/site in order to warp to it in a pod is to go there in your cov-ops first. I agree with the op- it's realy annoying, defeats the point of using a cov-ops for exploring and it's just plain stupid (Aura: "I'm sorry, your 50mil ship is no longer cloaked because of a small cloud of dust/warp beacon that you can't see....") It does.. I wouldn't lie to you. You must be doing it wrong
Nebularis	Posted - 2009.03.09 01:01:00 - [24] Umm I was using a heron with a prototype cloak on and oddly i didnt lose it once. you simply mash the cloak button as you are about to leave warp and presto, you are at the site and cloaked with your new sleeper friends none the wiser. Seriously, if you are losing ships you are doing something wrong. Don't ask ccp to make something easier just because you are having trouble doing it, learn to adapt, just like everyone else.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.09 01:14:00 - [25] /signed there shouldn't be anything at the warp in point for you to bump into imo. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.09 01:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Typhado3 /signed there shouldn't be anything at the warp in point for you to bump into imo. Yep. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2009.03.09 02:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Avalira 1) Initiate warp to scan result 2) Cancel warp 3) Warp to 100km Now you're safe. I'm not sure that this is working all the time. I lost a Cheetah to a Sleeper radar site using this trick. I warped cloaked and was still decloaked and popped. The sleepers were about 80km away when I came out of warp.
jinkoti boslin2 Firehawks The Church.	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:50:00 - [28] Originally by: jinkoti boslin2 Originally by: Amael Galenus Originally by: jinkoti boslin2 Edited by: jinkoti boslin2 on 08/03/2009 13:16:55 Good trick is to warp to a safespot, eject from ship and warp to the plex in your pod. I tried this and it doesn't work- as soon as you eject from your cov-ops, your scan results disappear (the scanner resets). The only way to get a bookmark of the plex/site in order to warp to it in a pod is to go there in your cov-ops first. I agree with the op- it's realy annoying, defeats the point of using a cov-ops for exploring and it's just plain stupid (Aura: "I'm sorry, your 50mil ship is no longer cloaked because of a small cloud of dust/warp beacon that you can't see....") It does.. I wouldn't lie to you. You must be doing it wrong Then again.. Maybe its been changed.. its been a while.. Hmmm, im off to see if i can do it in Apocrypha on Sisi
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.09 11:07:00 - [29] warp to 100km should mean warp to 100km not straight to. If it happens that waay and ccp wont hcange then its another reason wspace will be a big waste of time
The Shadowman	Posted - 2009.03.09 11:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Typhado3 /signed there shouldn't be anything at the warp in point for you to bump into imo. This.
Sazuka Kirr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:28:00 - [31] You could always fleet warp your squad to the site instead, and then cancel the warp before you actually fly there yourself ... I don't see any reason for a Cov Ops to fly to the site itself, since their job is to find the sites, not actually probe them out. That said, a warp to 100km feature that works would be very nice!
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.09 12:38:00 - [32] Originally by: Sazuka Kirr You could always fleet warp your squad to the site instead, and then cancel the warp before you actually fly there yourself ... I don't see any reason for a Cov Ops to fly to the site itself, since their job is to find the sites, not actually probe them out. That said, a warp to 100km feature that works would be very nice! Yes. Punt your fleet. Don't warp there yourself. :)
ghost st	Posted - 2009.03.15 08:37:00 - [33] Originally by: Nareg Maxence Originally by: Sazuka Kirr You could always fleet warp your squad to the site instead, and then cancel the warp before you actually fly there yourself ... I don't see any reason for a Cov Ops to fly to the site itself, since their job is to find the sites, not actually probe them out. That said, a warp to 100km feature that works would be very nice! Yes. Punt your fleet. Don't warp there yourself. :) Yes but this is not the ship performing its role. Whats the point of having a ship thats dedicated to scouting, being unable to scout. Nobody is just gonna throw there gang into a sleeper fleet without having some sort of clue as to what to expect.
St'oto BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:48:00 - [34] Edited by: St''oto on 15/03/2009 22:49:30 Then your pilot skills are simply lacking in this area. I have been to countless exploration sites in wormholes. With npcs and have had no problem quickly dropping a bm and then warping out. I have been using a prototype cloak on the char I do scanning with while I train up cloaking to use covert ops cloaks. So you guys really need to improve your piloting skills. EDIT : also the ship I use is a cheetah. just to clarify that it is a covert ops.
ghost st	Posted - 2009.03.16 11:03:00 - [35] Originally by: St'oto Edited by: St''oto on 15/03/2009 22:49:30 Bull**** Ok and what about those of us that arent arrogant douchebags?
Corrock Minmatar SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2009.03.16 12:01:00 - [36] Edited by: Corrock on 16/03/2009 12:05:44 Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Lady Aja warp in a corp mate with you ( them in a pod ) and you cancel warp b4 entering warp. get them to book mark the area on arrival... Good thing you can ask the GMs to spawn corpies in pods when you need to bookmark a site. Think before you post tbh, a probing ship shouldnt need an alt in a pod to bookmark the sites. Everytime someone posts something along these lines, I bet it goes into the Power-of-Two High-Five file, and the dev responsible gets their name entered in a drawing for some major, end-of-the-year prize. Also, chicks dig it. I really don't blame them, it's not as if you HAVE to have two accounts, just that's it's so much easier. I think it's nice that they don't try and make it harder like most MMORPGS, and actually let you multi-client to your heart's content (and your hardware's capacity:). Just kidding, of course, lol. I'm trying to justify my own second account.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.16 12:24:00 - [37] I have 3x inertial stabs and 3x small shield extenders on my scanship. I find it has no issues whatsoever getting in and getting out...of hisec w-space. However, as we all know, more dangerous unknown space is quite different. Can anyone reply with their experiences warping into a high-end w-space site with a TANKED covops?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.16 15:00:00 - [38] should be able to, imo, bookmark scan results as soon as you get them. - Contagious -
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:07:00 - [39] It's only gravimetric and ladar sites that have the decloaking clouds. Maybe this is a measure by CCP to add a bit of extra security for miners?
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.16 23:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Rawr Cristina should be able to, imo, bookmark scan results as soon as you get them. /vote for this idea! It would also mean you could mark sites your scanned down already which is another big issue in W space! -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Reggy Busy	Posted - 2009.03.16 23:27:00 - [41] I haven't lost 1 single cov ops during the numerous bookmarking operations to sleeper sites I've undertaken. Even if you warp in at 0 you should be fine, as long as you're not being overly curious towards the contents of the site. Warp to the signature. Select a planet that's going to be aligned best to your current warp direction. Open your places window, press add bookmark, leave the popup open and press ok when you finish warp, or just before. Spam the warp button on the selected item window (where you've got a planet selected). This way you'll be out way before anything can lock you up, even if the warpout isn't optimally aligned. Lag can mess it up ofcourse, but that's general meh.
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2009.03.17 06:16:00 - [42] A simple answer rather than change the sites at all to accomadate your warp in keeping you cloaked, how about letting us BM the green dot result without warping in. Cov Ops can sit and probe out sites and hand off bookmarks to gangmates to go run without leaving it's spot.
Vicarrah Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.17 12:04:00 - [43] ok, this is what happened to me (yes I lost my cov-ops) I'm cloaked I scanned down a site I warped to it I cancelled warp I warped to it again at 100km I'm still cloaked on entry while I'm getting my book mark, a single sleeper rat rushes away from the rest of them and suddently I'm decloaked. obviously, within the next two seconds I was dead due to the WTFPWN Sirius sentries. now I've seen the sleeper frigs do this before, going at random directions, rushing around, but I'm trying to work out whether or not they're doing this intentionally to attempt to decloak, or whether its a bug, or something else. there's a couple of things I don't like here, the main one is the almost instantaneous sentry gun damage, it takes me barely a couple of seconds to warp out in a cheetah, and in that time the sentries had locked, fired, and destroyed me. was I slow in bookmarking and getting out? maybe were the sleeper frigs doing something new and interesting? maybe are they doing what's intended? I don't know. and please, don't call me a scan-nub, I've been playing with cov-ops and cloaking for a long time. I may have made mistakes, and if this intended gameplay, then hats off to the devs for catching me out, but IMHO something smells fishy, even if its just the sentry gun lock time. Vicarrah Tahiri Matriarch

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