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Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:53:00 - [1] Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period Mainchar:
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:10:00 - [2] I disagree. It makes it interesting.
Kyanzes Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:13:00 - [3] No! Don't do it CCP! Heck, if you can make demands, so can I. --------------------------------------------- Unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:14:00 - [4] While they are GTCs they are out of game items. Secure trade system makes manipulation very, very difficult. Scamming is strictly forbidden. Once in-game they are subject to all other in-game item rules. Feel free to buy your time using the old secure system if you dislike the in-game market.
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:17:00 - [5] Yes I guess its a perspective of opinion thing. My opinion is that they are "out-of-game-items" and therefore should not be resellable etc. Anyway this would be a easy solution to stop speculation. Greetings Belmarduk Mainchar:
nether void Caldari The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:19:00 - [6] You should get in on the speculation. Make some ISK. Then you'd be on the other side of the debate, I'm sure. --------------------
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:40:00 - [7] some of us like making billions ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page "Nothing about Eve should be easy. Not even ganking." -Rhohan
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:44:00 - [8] They did say (in the dev blog i believe) that they were in game items except they cant go out of station. Sounds like someone bought them during a manipulation and the price crashed right after. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:48:00 - [9] Edited by: Caelum Mortuos on 10/03/2009 19:48:21 Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period They are an item, and they're in-game.....so they are an in-game item Anyway, half the point of PLEX is that they can be resold or contracted! move along... Edit - I fail at spelling
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Belmarduk it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them One question : WHY ? They're the same as any other in-game item. Do you want us to be forbidden from "speculating" in, umm, Drakes ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:02:00 - [11] Originally by: brinelan They did say (in the dev blog i believe) that they were in game items except they cant go out of station. Sounds like someone bought them during a manipulation and the price crashed right after. Let's make them mobile... buy in Jita move around and resell. Or find someone hauling one and blow them up hoping it drops :)
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:37:00 - [12] supply and demand should flow for free
Imertu Solientai	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:51:00 - [13] No.
LLM Raoul	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:53:00 - [14] Edited by: LLM Raoul on 10/03/2009 21:54:12 Grasping the concept of free market has always been hard for young, idealistic people. Speculating with anything is allowed, and should be allowed. Realistically PLEXes are licenses. Licenses, let's say liquor licenses, are included in the prices of bars f.e. Licenses have a value. Speculating with a value is inherent, and as such your best bet is to not rely on PLEXes. The way I see it, taking anything for granted in this game implies that you are extremely naive. Question ensues, can you say that prices for liqour licenses (to stick with our example) will not rise if obtaining them became harder? Be smart and just choose the best option. If PLEXes are expensive, pay the measly subscription this month. Apply vice-versa when situations differ. Profit.
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period Actually Speculative investors are to the LONG term advantage of the consumer. Assuming the volume traded is large enough And assuming the amount of investors are large enough Speculative investors encourage there to be more production of a product. Because there are will always be buyers the people who produce will produce more. The producers can focus on what they do best is produce. With out having to worry about if they're product will sell. The speculative investors then hold the product and take the risk that it might NOT sell. They also hold the product until an actual consumer buys it when it is ready to be consumed. Yes the investors take a profit cut, but they also take a risk, and they are converting their time, as they have to wait until it sells. And as supply and demand goes, the more supply you have... The lower the price gets, the more consumers buy. It is a good thing in the long run. Again assuming there are many investors and the volume isn't limited. ********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation Military Tactics
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period You should really think this out. If you get your way in the long run, there will be less supply. With less supply comes higher prices. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation Military Tactics
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period Heres another way to say it... The economic benefits of speculation The well known speculator Victor Niederhoffer, in "The Speculator as Hero" describes the benefits of speculation: Let's consider some of the principles that explain the causes of shortages and surpluses and the role of speculators. When a harvest is too small to satisfy consumption at its normal rate, speculators come in, hoping to profit from the scarcity by buying. Their purchases raise the price, thereby checking consumption so that the smaller supply will last longer. Producers encouraged by the high price further lessen the shortage by growing or importing to reduce the shortage. On the other side, when the price is higher than the speculators think the facts warrant, they sell. This reduces prices, encouraging consumption and exports and helping to reduce the surplus. Another service provided by speculators to a market is that by risking their own capital in the hope of profit, they add liquidity to the market and make it easier for others to offset risk, including those who may be classified as hedgers and arbitrageurs. If a certain marketùfor example, pork belliesùhad no speculators, then only producers (hog farmers) and consumers (butchers, etc.) would participate in that market. With fewer players in the market, there would be a larger spread between the current bid and ask price of pork bellies. Any new entrant in the market who wants to either buy or sell pork bellies would be forced to accept an illiquid market and market prices that have a large bid-ask spread or might even find it difficult to find a co-party to buy or sell to. A speculator (e.g. a pork dealer) may exploit the difference in the spread and, in competition with other speculators, reduce the spread, thus creating a more efficient market. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation Military Tactics
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:52:00 - [18] PLEXES SHOULD NOT QUICKLY ADJUST TO THEIR TRUE MARKET PRICE!
Jana Delusional Interstellar Mining and Trade Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period Why not? Please explain this?
Sir Ibex	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period I agree bud... But the problem is that me and you want to play EVE for free. (Let me guess... You'll say SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!) Heh, I heard it all before. In case you cant or don't want to, I'll admit it. It's nice to not have to pay $15 a month because I am a bum, and still be able to play a game which is probably meant to be played by WORKING people, who can easily afford to pay that same $15. Let's think about this. If you could EASILY afford to pay $15 every month, I'm sure you wouldn't be making such posts, and you'd be instead trying to speculate on PLEXES. To play EVE means to spend 50 cents a day. That's less than what some of us used to spend on arcade machines when we were kids! But.. It's such a pain when one does not have a job. And how the hell does one get a job when everywhere I go I get the same answer: "Sir, you don't have any "relevant" work experience". But how do I get experience when no one will hire me?! I mean WTF? I have a BA in Web Design.. I'm fresh out of college... What the hell do these people want from me? What experience are they talking about when all I did in HS and College was play things like Starcraft and Diablo? And by golly, that's what I SHOULD have been doing back then. I was a teenager! I tried the employment agencies, but do you know what they tell me? "Sir... Are you aware of how tough these times are? We are experiencing an ECONOMIC CRISIS! People more qualified than YOU cant even get a job! So what do you expect from us?" (Got a little sidetracked there.. I know.) Unfortunately CCP, doesn't really give a damn about what people like you or me want. Neither do most of the WORKING people on these forums. If PLEX prices were fixed, EVE would be "bum heaven". I would make 180-300mil isk through missions or trading(whatever is required for a 30 day PLEX), and I would be able to play EVE FREE! Always! I mean.. How awesome is that? So to comment on your last sentence, I'll say this. Our society, with it's "christian work ethic mentality" does not like freeloaders. PERIOD. You should be glad that PLEXES are even there, allowing you to do what you are doing! If I were to guess, I'd say that CCP will eventually remove time cards and PLEXES from the game completely, because every time someone buys a PLEX, extending their subscription, that someone is depriving CCP of potential profit in RL money. So enjoy it while it lasts.
Krathos Morpheus Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period Plexes ARE in-game items, Gtcs aren't. Period. EVE Knowledge
Manalapan Dynasty Banking	Posted - 2009.03.16 05:26:00 - [22] Sir Ibex way to blame the system.... What you guys need to think about is that its a means of trading in game money for real money. Consider GTC and Plexes (Yes there is speculation in both, just not as much in GTC) as a currency exchange so their prices are bound to fluctuate you can buy and sell Euros and Dollars in real life so what is wrong with being able to this with ISK. Dynasty Banking
Maven Deltor	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Sir Ibex every time someone buys a PLEX, extending their subscription, that someone is depriving CCP of potential profit in RL money. You're a bit off here. PLEX cards aren't born by space whales. Someone paid money to CCP for the item in game. CCP encourages this market, and they should. PLEX cards will not go away. I bet more options will come available in the future. As for the whole "speculating" thing from the OP. Who cares? I've been playing for a little over a year now, and back when they offered them, 30 day GTCs were 330-360 million ISK. I'd say availability of the PLEX card, and ease of the transaction has only helped the market grow. And when the market grows, the sales competition gets stronger, and the prices drop. And for the record, I don't see what's wrong with playing for free. Working or not, sometimes it's just fun to feel like you're getting a bargain.
Manalapan Dynasty Banking	Posted - 2009.03.16 08:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Maven Deltor Originally by: Sir Ibex every time someone buys a PLEX, extending their subscription, that someone is depriving CCP of potential profit in RL money. PLEX cards aren't born by space whales. Yes they are, but only when I am the father. I feel sorry for whoever I marry she gives birth to EVE GTC instead of babies :'( Dynasty Banking
Kingtemplar	Posted - 2009.03.16 10:06:00 - [25] You guys forgot one thing, IF plex prices too high people will buy GTC instead, for 2 plexes = 1 GtC. The real control on plex prices will be controlling GTC.
Landrassa Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.03.17 09:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Sir Ibex Originally by: Belmarduk Plexes are not ingame-items assuch and it should NOT be possible to make isk by speculating with them ! Easy Solution: It should NOT be possible to resell plexes or contract them.Period I agree bud... But the problem is that me and you want to play EVE for free. (Let me guess... You'll say SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!) Heh, I heard it all before. In case you cant or don't want to, I'll admit it. It's nice to not have to pay $15 a month because I am a bum, and still be able to play a game which is probably meant to be played by WORKING people, who can easily afford to pay that same $15. Let's think about this. If you could EASILY afford to pay $15 every month, I'm sure you wouldn't be making such posts, and you'd be instead trying to speculate on PLEXES. To play EVE means to spend 50 cents a day. That's less than what some of us used to spend on arcade machines when we were kids! But.. It's such a pain when one does not have a job. And how the hell does one get a job when everywhere I go I get the same answer: "Sir, you don't have any "relevant" work experience". But how do I get experience when no one will hire me?! I mean WTF? I have a BA in Web Design.. I'm fresh out of college... What the hell do these people want from me? What experience are they talking about when all I did in HS and College was play things like Starcraft and Diablo? And by golly, that's what I SHOULD have been doing back then. I was a teenager! I tried the employment agencies, but do you know what they tell me? "Sir... Are you aware of how tough these times are? We are experiencing an ECONOMIC CRISIS! People more qualified than YOU cant even get a job! So what do you expect from us?" (Got a little sidetracked there.. I know.) Unfortunately CCP, doesn't really give a damn about what people like you or me want. Neither do most of the WORKING people on these forums. If PLEX prices were fixed, EVE would be "bum heaven". I would make 180-300mil isk through missions or trading(whatever is required for a 30 day PLEX), and I would be able to play EVE FREE! Always! I mean.. How awesome is that? So to comment on your last sentence, I'll say this. Our society, with it's "christian work ethic mentality" does not like freeloaders. PERIOD. You should be glad that PLEXES are even there, allowing you to do what you are doing! If I were to guess, I'd say that CCP will eventually remove time cards and PLEXES from the game completely, because every time someone buys a PLEX, extending their subscription, that someone is depriving CCP of potential profit in RL money. So enjoy it while it lasts. Completely off-topic, but your field is one of the few where you can actually show off your mad skillz without having to be already employed to do so...and one where your physical location compared to that of your client/employer isn't really all that important. Why don't you have a signature full of url's showing off your previous work? Surely someone in your field enjoys his chosen metier enough to have created some pretty spiffy websites just for fun? Back on topic...CCP does not lose money when people pay for their subscriptions through plexes...they just get it from someone else(whoever bought the GTC). As for the "christian work ethic mentality"...you do realize this is the world wide web, right? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nice corp you got there...would be a shame if something happened to it.
Tasko Pal THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.17 14:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Sir Ibex What the hell do these people want from me? What experience are they talking about when all I did in HS and College was play things like Starcraft and Diablo? And by golly, that's what I SHOULD have been doing back then. I was a teenager! I tried the employment agencies, but do you know what they tell me? "Sir... Are you aware of how tough these times are? We are experiencing an ECONOMIC CRISIS! People more qualified than YOU cant even get a job! So what do you expect from us?" (Got a little sidetracked there.. I know.) There's a better question. Why do you expect those things? I think Landrassa has a good point. You're in the lucky position that you can get experience even if you can't get employed. Maybe you can earn some isk by setting up a corp's website or similar activity. Bottom line for CCP is that employed people are where the money is. Unemployed people don't have the money, but they do have the time. The PLEX market trades that time for that money. The high cost of PLExes right now is due to a lot of people with spare time.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.03.17 16:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Sir Ibex But.. It's such a pain when one does not have a job. And how the hell does one get a job when everywhere I go I get the same answer: "Sir, you don't have any "relevant" work experience". But how do I get experience when no one will hire me?! I mean WTF? I have a BA in Web Design.. I'm fresh out of college... What the hell do these people want from me? What experience are they talking about when all I did in HS and College was play things like Starcraft and Diablo? And by golly, that's what I SHOULD have been doing back then. I was a teenager! I tried the employment agencies, but do you know what they tell me? "Sir... Are you aware of how tough these times are? We are experiencing an ECONOMIC CRISIS! People more qualified than YOU cant even get a job! So what do you expect from us?" (Got a little sidetracked there.. I know.) quick calculation Good lvl 4 mission runner earns ~50mil per hour. assume plex price of 300Mil and that 12 hours to earn 2 plex. Now unless you live in the poorest parts of Under-delveloped countries (which I assume, having that education background, you dont) 12 hours work will easily yeild enough to pay for a GTC or subscription. And honestly mate you need to learn a few lessons, so you went to college and you got some qualifications and now you cannot find a job in that field, well you still need to Eat so go find a job in another field I'm sure tesco's or the like won't turn you away and honestly stop expecting everyone to pay your way, I know a few unemployed people and they all have the same attitude...They all have excuse's for not having a job. There is no excuse's only solutions.
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.03.17 16:52:00 - [29] I lost my job in real estate, I haven't been able to find a new job in real estate so now I'm consulting businesses with management problems. It sucks but it pays the bills till my field comes back. There is always a job out there. Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.17 17:19:00 - [30] I hate entitlement attitudes. The markets are coldly efficient, amoral, unsympathetic, and absolutely beautiful. You earn your way, you don't get it handed to you. Don't like the way things are? Do something about it...earn more money. Biggest mistake people make is thinking that time spent earning money and amount earned are somehow explicitly linked. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Hexxx I hate entitlement attitudes. The markets are coldly efficient, amoral, unsympathetic, and absolutely beautiful. You earn your way, you don't get it handed to you. Don't like the way things are? Do something about it...earn more money. Biggest mistake people make is thinking that time spent earning money and amount earned are somehow explicitly linked. Biggest mistake people make is mistaking price for value.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:13:00 - [32] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Originally by: Hexxx I hate entitlement attitudes. The markets are coldly efficient, amoral, unsympathetic, and absolutely beautiful. You earn your way, you don't get it handed to you. Don't like the way things are? Do something about it...earn more money. Biggest mistake people make is thinking that time spent earning money and amount earned are somehow explicitly linked. Biggest mistake people make is mistaking price for value. I like you. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
nether void Caldari The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.17 21:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Sir Ibex Our society, with it's "christian work ethic mentality" does not like freeloaders. Better question: who likes freeloaders? --------------------
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.17 23:49:00 - [34] Originally by: nether void Originally by: Sir Ibex Our society, with it's "christian work ethic mentality" does not like freeloaders. Better question: who likes freeloaders? Oh, oh! I know this one! Liberals. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools	Posted - 2009.03.19 12:28:00 - [35] Originally by: Sir Ibex stuff Acquiring relevant work experience is easy. Clearly, you're in a stable situation in terms of not needing money coming in in order to eat or sleep (parents' house?). So, find a local charity and ask them if they'd like a website built or updated. They'd have to pay the hosting costs (a couple bucks a month), and you'd set them up with PayPal recurring payments for donations, a way to poll visitors as to what their charitable needs or goals are, and a shiny, brand-new site. As a bonus, you get to write off that time on your taxes, should you generate any taxable income by the end of the year. Alternately, find a local web design firm, explain that you're talented and trained, but need experience from experts. Offer to work for minimum wage, or failing that, absolutely nothing, for three months, and at the end of that three months, they can either keep you and pay you as a junior designer, or send you off with their thanks if they just don't have a position for you--no hard feelings. No matter which path you go down, you earn RL work experience, you're done in just a couple months, and you earn (or "are not taxed on -> pocket") some extra money. I prefer the cheap-internship option as it leads directly into a job if you're good, but both work, and the former has the advantage of helping out a charitable cause. Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: nether void Originally by: Sir Ibex Our society, with it's "christian work ethic mentality" does not like freeloaders. Better question: who likes freeloaders? Oh, oh! I know this one! Liberals. Liberals believe that the freeloaders should be given a bit of time to get on their feet, and then should have equal opportunity to climb the ladder as anyone else. Conservatives believe if you aren't already at the top of the heap, it wasn't your destiny to be there. The top of the heap is higher with conservatives in power, but it's also much more dangerous (see The Jungle, or any of the Wikipedia articles on the robber-barons of the turn of the century). The top of the heap is slightly lower with liberals in power, but the average amount of happiness through the pile is much higher. I tend to believe that it is far easier to extract 10% extra value from someone producing $100k/year in value (say, an factory assembly-line worker who no longer has to worry about his family's healthcare costs and thus makes a better product/more of it), times fifty, to produce $500k extra value in total, at a cost of a 5% increase in taxes--a total of $250k created--than to reassure that same factory's owner that he need not concern himself with environmental impact, thus allowing him to focus on better managing his people, generating an extra 2% of value out of each--a mere $100k extra value, at the cost of a potential massive cleanup effort and/or PR backlash on the other side completely erasing all that extra value. I recognize that my numbers are pulled from thin air, but hopefully they demonstrate my point. As always, no liberal policy is going to always be right, nor any conservative ones. The key is to have a tripartisan* official choosing what's best on behalf of all of us, after careful consideration of a level of detail we can't get in a ninety-second blurb on the evening news. Enough proselytizing from me for now. Stopping manipulation on PLEXes would just make the market illiquid, meaning that it would cost 50% more for a PLEX on a Saturday than on a Wednesday and similar silliness. In addition, it'd be just plain asinine. For that matter, so is the restriction on transporting the damn things, but that's a fight for another day. MP : Listening carefully to all three voices: Liberal, Conservative, and the Truth. And sometimes choosing something other than option #3. -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?*
Chssmius Capital Support House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.03.19 17:07:00 - [36] You do all realize that PLEX speculation devalues Isk. That an economist was added to the payroll before PLEXs were put on the market. That one of the key methods of increasing the velocity of money is by inflation. Take The EvE Personality Test today!
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools	Posted - 2009.03.20 00:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Chssmius You do all realize that PLEX speculation devalues Isk. ...? Originally by: Chssmius That one of the key methods of increasing the velocity of money is by inflation. Wait, what? Increasing the velocity per unit cash, sure, but per unit of value? Absolutely not. And the former is the one that matters. Now on the other hand, velocity of money increasing tends to be inflationary, but that's a whole separate discussion. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
glas mir	Posted - 2009.03.20 09:00:00 - [38] too much macro economics in here I'd say. Lets get back to basics. price is determined by supply = demand. the plex is an in-game item and as such is subject to a free market. Its price in the long term is determined by demand, sit back. If it's priced too expensively then the price will come down till supply meets demand. Also you have to realize that the supply of plex's are more variable than most other things in the game. Factors external to the game can affect the supply. Perhaps its not speculation after all, just lower supply and increased demand. It stands to reason if fewer people want to shell out $$$ for isk then people also want to turn isk into gametime more.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.20 09:23:00 - [39] Originally by: LLM Raoul Edited by: LLM Raoul on 10/03/2009 21:54:12 [justify]Grasping the concept of free market has always been hard for young, idealistic people. I think it's more likely that idealistic people will believe free markets always lead to the social optimum. Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Originally by: Hexxx I hate entitlement attitudes. The markets are coldly efficient, amoral, unsympathetic, and absolutely beautiful. You earn your way, you don't get it handed to you. Don't like the way things are? Do something about it...earn more money. Biggest mistake people make is thinking that time spent earning money and amount earned are somehow explicitly linked. Biggest mistake people make is mistaking price for value. Right, price is just the point at which marginal value equals marginal cost, not value in general. Originally by: Motivated Prophet The key is to have a tripartisan* official choosing what's best on behalf of all of us, after careful consideration of a level of detail we can't get in a ninety-second blurb on the evening news. Why would some bureaucrat know what's best for you? Despite "careful consideration" we get bans on victimless crimes like in home drug use.
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:39:00 - [40] aww.. stop it! You pay game with isk, you don't want PLEX costing 700millions... But if it was the opposite, prices dropping to 70millions, you would be happiest dude over Eve Online and you wouldn't have opened a thread called "CCP stop sellers droping the PLEX prices its not fair" would you?.
Tasko Pal THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.20 12:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Originally by: Hexxx I hate entitlement attitudes. The markets are coldly efficient, amoral, unsympathetic, and absolutely beautiful. You earn your way, you don't get it handed to you. Don't like the way things are? Do something about it...earn more money. Biggest mistake people make is thinking that time spent earning money and amount earned are somehow explicitly linked. Biggest mistake people make is mistaking price for value. Nah, Hexxx had it right. For someone in a market, value is what someone is willing to pay for what you have and vice versa. In practice, a large number of the market participants have labor at their disposal so there is a way to exchange labor for money. For example, selling the labor to someone else or using your own labor rather than buying a service. In any case, price is value in a market. Sure, there are numerous labor theories of value as the above link indicates. These either price labor via the market, or incorrectly via some other mechanism. And given that a good or service is so much more than just the labor, such an approach that uses only labor won't derive the proper value.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.03.20 12:29:00 - [42] Originally by: LLM Raoul Edited by: LLM Raoul on 10/03/2009 21:54:12 Grasping the concept of free market has always been hard for young, idealistic people. blah blah blah... You sound like a teen. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Chssmius Capital Support House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.03.22 16:30:00 - [43] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Chssmius You do all realize that PLEX speculation devalues Isk. ...? Buying a PLEX costs the same today as it does tomorrow. With speculation the amount of isk that you can trade for a PLEX goes up with time. As the real value of an isk unit goes down with time this is an inflationary pressure. That is you lose real value with time by holding onto isk. Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Chssmius That one of the key methods of increasing the velocity of money is by inflation. Wait, what? Increasing the velocity per unit cash, sure, but per unit of value? Absolutely not. And the former is the one that matters. That was kind my point. Originally by: Motivated Prophet Now on the other hand, velocity of money increasing tends to be inflationary, but that's a whole separate discussion. MP I believe you may be confusing cause and effect. Higher velocity of money is an indicator of inflation and not a cause of it(at least in Eve due to game mechanics). Most of the accepted inflationary theories revolve around the concept that more money leads to the devaluation of a given unit of money. Yet, within Eve this largely has not occurred, this has led to the Eve isk being monetarily overvalued in game, PLEX speculation should help correct this. So the real value of almost everything within the game, being measured at a relatively constant quantity of isk, will go down but the perceived value will stay approximately the same. Take The EvE Personality Test today!

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