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Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.10 23:04:00 - [1] Edited by: Requiescat on 10/03/2009 23:07:40 I've been playing this game for quite a while (not as long as some) but as far as I can remember I have been satisfied with the "Classic" graphics. I have a below-average computer and recently my graphics card's fan broke so I am stuck with integrated graphics until I have the money to either completely overhaul my computer (no PCI-E slot on my mobo) or buy a new one. Apocyrpha could not have come at a worse time and I am taken aback by how little foresight CCP must have put into the decision to stop supporting less powerful GPUs. I know I can't be the only person who runs an obsolete machine to play this game, and as I look at "Premium Lite" I am offended by how terrible the graphics look, compared even to Classic. Cloaking looks ****ed (low-alpha meshes overlapping), when I turn down textures to improve my performance, everything looks ty and grey, and when I turn up textures to make everything look less ty and grey, I get about 5 frames per second. I also have to turn shaders all the way down and everything except missile effects off just to have bearable performance. In short, thanks for making everything pretty at 2FPS, CCP, I'm really glad you thought this through. Whose idea was it to get rid of Classic anyway? Edit: Also it would be really neat if the models for celestial objects would load, because right now I have invisible planets and lights coming out of nowhere with station icons near them -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town**
General Gingerbread	Posted - 2009.03.10 23:11:00 - [2] Can't drag the little guys around for ever, it hinders the advance towards the future. The weak get left behind.
Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.10 23:17:00 - [3] Originally by: General Gingerbread Can't drag the little guys around for ever, it hinders the advance towards the future. The weak get left behind. That's why there were two separate clients. I don't have the money to throw at new computers every two years, but I have three accounts, I don't see how my problems are any less significant than yours -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town
achoura	Posted - 2009.03.11 00:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Requiescat I am taken aback by how little foresight CCP must have put into the decision to stop supporting less powerful GPUs. That really isn't true and you know it I do agree though, that once every things turned down getting it going it looks substantially worse than the old classic client. For a game that sweeps you always with it's beauty this client is in direct contradiction with eve It's not that they changed the base req. (frankly, it's amazing to took them this long to), it's that they somehow made eve, idk, "less". On the plus side, even on premium there's still the bugs and glitches from sis last week, and some effects are still either poor or needing altered (e.g.g bubbles) so there's hope yet. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.03.11 03:30:00 - [5] Originally by: General Gingerbread Can't drag the little guys around for ever, it hinders the advance towards the future. THIS. Having 2 clients means that everything had to be coded twice, tested twice, re-checked against the other version to make sure they both actually do the same thing. Adding a new station model? Great, do it twice. And make it look the same. But you can only use some of the features in one of the versions and we want the other one to look spectacular.. And it has to be exactly the same size, and stick out in exactly the same places in all clients so we don't have ships bouncing off the station in 1 client but not in the other. 1 client and all of a sudden half the coding is gone, meaning more stuff can be created/fixed in the same amount of time with the same number of coders and testers. Its not like SM2 is even particularly new.. Were up to what? 4 now? and even that's not very new.. NOT a kublai alt. Honest! Vote Pompous for CSM, or Lana's babies will starve!
Chissil Tooth	Posted - 2009.03.11 06:10:00 - [6] yeah 2 x 2 but ccp's coders could have put a "I have a crap pc button" once clicked could turn the pretty shinny sh-it off but ccp seem to show utter contempt to the poor but that's cool as the world goes deeper into Depression I for one will be first to point at ccp and laugh my F-ing ass off when they too feel the whip of the depression bandit. you're greedy ccp and you'll pay for your loyalty to us that's been supporting you from the beginning, I have the minimal requirements and this over packed shinny toy don't work too well at all frame rate hits a massive 6.9 lol try working your minimal requirements from a place that's not next to the friggin server dumb a-s-s's. I'm all up for improvements and yeah some are grate but friggin hell who cares how pretty a ship is dang man I'll loose it before I get chance to admire it most likely. I would have loved to see old bugs that still have not been fixed in 4yrs, or how about improving the corp tab or hey how about introducing a stock market all this beats a friggin pretty painted ship. So now I had my emo rage at ccp, feel free to flood this post with your lame ass opinions. or better still send me RL money so I can upgrade my pc. thanks ccp, looks like your gona loose more then the estimated 2000 accounts you bean counters allowed for.
Andromeda Stardrifter	Posted - 2009.03.11 06:26:00 - [7] I agree, My frames have gone to unplayable on one system. Hate to think what running two accounts on my good system will be. At this point - I'm just not that impressed anymore or interested. (don't start me on this craptacular fitting screen)
Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.11 06:34:00 - [8] Edited by: Requiescat on 11/03/2009 06:36:37 Originally by: Lana Torrin Having 2 clients means that everything had to be coded twice, tested twice, re-checked against the other version to make sure they both actually do the same thing. No; nothing needs to be "coded" twice. I'm guessing you don't have a whole lot of programming experience because most of the cogs and gears between the two clients are the same. Everything except the lighting, models and textures is (as far as I can tell as an end user) functionally identical between the two clients. Graphics is really not that significant of a chunk of game design, once you get over the part where without graphics you're playing Zork. Graphics are just the bells and whistles. I'm guessing some of the devs at CCP wanted to push Apocrypha out a couple of months faster, and with the wealth of T3 modeling that needed to be done for ships no one will be flying for a month and no one will fly for 8 months after that because of how expensive they are, someone decided it would be cheaper and easier to give (I'm guessing) 20% of EVE the bird and switch Classic to a genuinely awful redheaded Premium stepchild. Collision mapping, texture mapping and mesh creation are all fairly straightforward, and as far as I can tell most of the ships introduced with the Premium client or after its release use the same models in the Classic and Premium clients. The only major hurdle is the texturing, which as I said above and I'm sure almost every other Classic user will agree with me on, isn't all that important. What really matters is that I have gone from 25-30 FPS at normal use to 5-7 FPS floating in a safespot cloaked in a bomber (with settings cranked all the way down). The performance hit is staggering, and everything looks crappier anyway. I should not be required to go out and throw down a grand on a new computer just to continue playing a game that I've been playing for three years. Originally by: Chissil Tooth as the world goes deeper into Depression I for one will be first to point at ccp and laugh my F-ing ass off when they too feel the whip of the depression bandit. The Krona has actually crashed fairly severely in the last year, Iceland's economy is crumbling. Are you pointing and laughing yet? -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:25:00 - [9] OK, thats it.. I now demand to see the specs of every machine that people CLAIM cant run the new client. I just found out that my backup home server (the one that i pulled together from old parts i had laying around to save things that i cant ever replace) can actually run this thing (well it could if it ever booted in to windows). GeForce 5200 - Created 2003 - Supports Shared Model 2.0 NOT a kublai alt. Honest! Vote Pompous for CSM, or Lana's babies will starve!
Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:28:00 - [10] 2.8ghz Northwood P4 1Gb RAM Intel 82915G/GV/910GL integrated gfx had to pull my chaintech fx5200 after the fan motor broke. not worth putting the money into a new card as my mobo only has a 1x pcie slot, so i was looking at buying a new comp anyway. but the principal is still the same, ccp are *s for dropping the low end like this -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town**

Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:29:00 - [11] Repairing GPU cooling can't take more than 40 minutes and $1 for necessary replacement parts. If you're a man, not a woman, however. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:30:00 - [12] Edited by: Requiescat on 11/03/2009 07:32:36 Edited by: Requiescat on 11/03/2009 07:30:13 double posted edit: excuse me for not living next door to a fry's, i don't care enough about a $40 graphics card to drive an hour and a half and buy a new fan and i don't care enough to order one online either -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Requiescat 2.8ghz Northwood P4 1Gb RAM Intel 82915G/GV/910GL integrated gfx had to pull my chaintech fx5200 after the fan motor broke. not worth putting the money into a new card as my mobo only has a 1x pcie slot, so i was looking at buying a new comp anyway. but the principal is still the same, ccp are *s for dropping the low end like this Assuming that's got a GMA900 (which that chipset should have) as its controller, it supports Shader Model 2.0.. Yeah its going to suck at framerate, but you should be able to log in at least until you get a video card. NOT** a kublai alt. Honest! Vote Pompous for CSM, or Lana's babies will starve!
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Requiescat edit: excuse me for not living next door to a fry's, i don't care enough about a $40 graphics card to drive an hour and a half and buy a new fan and i don't care enough to order one online either Mmhm, I though that cheap non-cricket type lighter can be bought just about everywhere, basically nextdoors... or you living such healthy country that there's no shops selling cigarettes and lighters? -- Thanks CCP for cu
Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.11 08:05:00 - [15] i can indeed log in, my performance is absolutely terrible though, down 50-75% from classic -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2009.03.11 08:46:00 - [16] Do you pay for your accounts by buying GTCs with isk?
Requiescat Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 11/03/2009 09:09:42 Do you pay for your accounts by buying GTCs with isk? This is a pretty cheap agp card... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814145067 i do indeed pay for my accounts with isk, and i have since i reactivated just after christmas. my mobo doesn't have an agp slot, i have two regular pci slots and a pci-e 1x slot. i've already looked through all the crappy video cards i could get for it, and i'm not interested in putting in a new video card that's so far behind that it can't even see shader model 3.0 -+- let's break out the shotguns, we're going to town
Amida Ta German Mining and Manufacture Corp.	Posted - 2009.03.11 21:01:00 - [18] Requiescat in pace. SCNR g _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net
Chissil Tooth	Posted - 2009.03.11 21:13:00 - [19] Quote: The Krona has actually crashed fairly severely in the last year, Iceland's economy is crumbling. Are you pointing and laughing yet? Hey stupid there economy could become like the stone age but while you me others economy is good we still play the game when your's mine hits the shi-t house then ccp will feel it or did I use to big of words for you this time ?
Atticus Gaul	Posted - 2009.03.11 22:50:00 - [20] I have to say I am going to miss classic, it ran well on my computer... 8( But on the other hand completely understand why the scrubbed it. Cost is to great, and they can do so much more with only one client to worry about. With so many new sci fi MMO's coming live in the next year (like 12 of them), I can understand why CCP wants to make sure their game is on top. It's all about playability, they could have very well not given you a choice of having less or more graphics. Other MMO's have done way worse in that department. I will play on low/low/none lol, and I will chat with my buddies. Only neg I have to say.. fix the sound please, if I can't have graphics, at least i'd like to hear everything no matter how far away it is. 8) Fly safe all!

Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Atticus Gaul It's all about playability speaking about playability, i'd better play text-based game, than suffer from lags every time I click a button in interface. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.03.12 01:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Requiescat Edited by: Requiescat on 10/03/2009 23:07:40 I've been playing this game for quite a while (not as long as some) but as far as I can remember I have been satisfied with the "Classic" graphics. I have a below-average computer and recently my graphics card's fan broke so I am stuck with integrated graphics until I have the money to either completely overhaul my computer (no PCI-E slot on my mobo) or buy a new one. Apocyrpha could not have come at a worse time and I am taken aback by how little foresight CCP must have put into the decision to stop supporting less powerful GPUs. I know I can't be the only person who runs an obsolete machine to play this game, and as I look at "Premium Lite" I am offended by how terrible the graphics look, compared even to Classic. Cloaking looks ****ed (low-alpha meshes overlapping), when I turn down textures to improve my performance, everything looks ty and grey, and when I turn up textures to make everything look less **ty and grey, I get about 5 frames per second. I also have to turn shaders all the way down and everything except missile effects off just to have bearable performance. In short, thanks for making everything pretty at 2FPS, CCP, I'm really glad you thought this through. Whose idea was it to get rid of Classic anyway? Edit: Also it would be really neat if the models for celestial objects would load, because right now I have invisible planets and lights coming out of nowhere with station icons near them just economical annalysis perspective. People that cannot pay a computer with a card made after 2003 on its majority cannot pay for MMO subscritpions. So it snto inteligent to put much efforts on supporting those. Specially if this allows them to focus more in the high end clients that can buy more expensive machines, that usually are able to pay for 3 or more accounts of an MMO.
Seishi Maru M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.03.12 01:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Requiescat Edited by: Requiescat on 11/03/2009 06:38:01 Originally by: Lana Torrin Having 2 clients means that everything had to be coded twice, tested twice, re-checked against the other version to make sure they both actually do the same thing. No; nothing needs to be "coded" twice. I'm guessing you don't have a whole lot of programming experience because most of the cogs and gears between the two clients are the same. Everything except the lighting, models and textures is (as far as I can tell as an end user) functionally identical between the two clients. Graphics is really not that significant of a chunk of game design, once you get over the part where without graphics you're playing Zork. Graphics are just the bells and whistles. I'm guessing some of the devs at CCP wanted to push Apocrypha out a couple of months faster, and with the wealth of T3 modeling that needed to be done for ships no one will be flying for a month and no one will fly for 8 months after that because of how expensive they are, someone decided it would be cheaper and easier to give (I'm guessing) 20% of EVE the bird and switch Classic to a genuinely awful redheaded Premium stepchild. Collision mapping, texture mapping and mesh creation are all fairly straightforward, and as far as I can tell most of the ships introduced with the Premium client or after its release use the same models in the Classic and Premium clients. The only major hurdle is the texturing, which I'm sure almost every other Classic user will agree with me on, isn't all that important. What really matters is that I have gone from 25-30 FPS at normal use to 5-7 FPS floating in a safespot cloaked in a bomber (with settings cranked all the way down). The performance hit is staggering, and everything looks crappier anyway. I should not be required to go out and throw down a grand on a new computer just to continue playing a game that I've been playing for three years. Originally by: Chissil Tooth as the world goes deeper into Depression I for one will be first to point at ccp and laugh my F-ing ass off when they too feel the whip of the depression bandit. The Krona has actually crashed fairly severely in the last year, Iceland's economy is crumbling. Are you pointing and laughing yet? you forget that graphics is 99.99% of the client code. So yes. the client has to be written twice!
Baeryn Caldari Corporate Sin	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:15:00 - [24] I don't understand why they don't allow us to disable non-UI graphics altogether. EVE is beautiful, but there are times when I absolutely need the highest possible framerate (fleet battles, for example?) and I don't particularly care about the prettiness - I just want to get my clone out alive! Also, why is it called "Premium" and "Premium Lite" - isn't that a bit counter-intuitive? Shouldn't it be something like "Standard" and "Lite"? Role Playing Games by RolePlayGateway
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.03.13 02:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Baeryn Also, why is it called "Premium" and "Premium Lite" - isn't that a bit counter-intuitive? Shouldn't it be something like "Standard" and "Lite"? That's what's called "inheritance"... -- Thanks CCP for cu
Conq Er Stellare Umbra	Posted - 2009.03.13 02:49:00 - [26] Quote: Intel 82915G/GV/910GL integrated gfx Get a real card.


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