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Damorris Laht
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:20:00 -
[31]
I can't believe how many times i read people calling for the nerfing of ships. You guys keep nerfing ships and the newb frigates are going to be going around pwnig everyone. How about just make the other ships better? Making things weaker so that other ships of that type can fight them on a more even field is like telling someone the guy you are going to fight will have one hand tied behind his back to you wont have to think or train hard to win. As players we need to over come and adapt not ask CCP to nerf something because it smacked us down in some battle somewhere. Lets start adding resist or more slots or drone space to the ships that are weak in some areas instead of nerfing the ones that are good. Its sad that tech 1 battlecruisers might be just as good as a HAC. Time to start giving rather then taking away.
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MitchPT
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:16:00 -
[32]
I can't believe how many people say bad things about the deimos....sure it has its problems, but its the highest DPS HAC out there.Its tank is crap but with that dmg you can't have it all (and badpaint job? wtf, coolest ship in eve!  )
About the Phobos, i think its pretty good aswell, just aslong as you don't run out of cap boosters.
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Kunming
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:16:00 -
[33]
Agree with Damoris to some extend. In the case of the phobos f.ex. the other HICs simply outperform it in its dedicated role; but when we look at the falcon, its so useful it makes the rook redundant. Same with lachesis, its outclassed by the arazu.
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Quantum Rise... nerfing the unnerfable! Sponsored by CCP |
Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:42:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Kunming
Agree with Damoris to some extend. In the case of the phobos f.ex. the other HICs simply outperform it in its dedicated role; but when we look at the falcon, its so useful it makes the rook redundant. Same with lachesis, its outclassed by the arazu.
I was under the impression the phobos had the best scan resolution i.e making it one of the better lowsec HICs?
Put in space whales!
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: vanBuskirk
This matters because if you already have the support skills (and of course the command ship skill itself) caldari cruiser V gets you the Nighthawk
(rushes off to put caldari cruiser V in queue)
Maybe u missed that you need battlecruiser 5/5 for a commandship.
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Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:36:00 -
[36]
Deimos gets primaried and blown up before it ever does anything usefull anyway, not to mention a brutix does the same job for an eighth of the price.
That is why the deimos is bad
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: MitchPT
I can't believe how many people say bad things about the deimos....sure it has its problems, but its the highest DPS HAC out there.
Here, we care only about EFT DPS numbers, rather than whether a ship can actually apply that DPS in a useful fashion.
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Dethis
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: MitchPT
I can't believe how many people say bad things about the deimos....sure it has its problems, but its the highest DPS HAC out there.
Here, we care only about EFT DPS numbers, rather than whether a ship can actually apply that DPS in a useful fashion.
Let me introduce you to the brutix, a better dps platform that is insurable.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:05:00 -
[39]
@Nonah
While I agree with a large part of your post, I want to comment on some things :
Quote:
Amarr and gallente have armor logisticboats. Amarr gets more lows, more highs and an energy transfer bonus. Gallente gets more mids, larger drone bay and pink colour. There's pretty much not a single reason to go with gallente here. Saying tracking links are crap would be optimistic.
There is a really good reason to go Gallente here. While Guardian gets more lows (5) and highs (6), it only gets two mediums. Fitting an ECCM is mandatory. So you get to pick between a Cap Booster, a propulsion mod and a Sensor Booster. No Sensor Booster means that a single ship with Dampeners removes you from battle. No Propulsion mod means that if your gang is moving you have problems following and that if you get Sensor Dampened it will take a long time until you get in your reduced range. No Cap Booster means you can run 4 of your repairers for about 2 minutes (with remote rep rigs and maxed skills), unless you gimp your tank to fit Cap Power Relays.
Oneiros, on the other hand has 4 Lows, 5 Mediums and 4 Highs. That means that you can fit 4 Repairers (you will not fit more in a guardian in 99% of cases anyway), a bit weaker tank BUT you can fit a Cap Booster, a Sensor Booster, an ECCM, a single tracking link and an AB (or MWD if you are willing to use a Reactor Control and downgrade tank).
That means that, if you are not in a pair of guardians, Oneiros is a better Logistic.
Other than that, Deimos is not as bad as you make it seem. It is an expensive Thorax yes, but it is also the hardest hitting HAC + it can send out 5 Medium ECM Drones that generally guarantee that you will beat other Cruiser class ships. It just needs very specific conditions to work and is easy to lose, but it is great fun when Isk is not an issue, or when you just need to kill something asap and get out.
My last disagreement is about Dampeners but it is a general discussion, not a ship specific.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Walker Bulldog
Muninn - anti-support sniper, can hit out to 100-120km or so. Its main weak point is that Hurricane is almost as good, for a tiny fraction of the cost.
So, here's the rub with the Muninn: at range, you should be using a BS or an Eagle (possibly Cerb for certain situations), and close up you should be using a Hurricane (yes, it's better even close up).
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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Walker Bulldog
Minmatar
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:49:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
[
So, here's the rub with the Muninn: at range, you should be using a BS or an Eagle (possibly Cerb for certain situations), and close up you should be using a Hurricane (yes, it's better even close up).
-Liang
A BS will have trouble staying with a fast-moving roaming gang; also the lock times on a BS with a cloak are atrocious (I've used a cloaking Muninn with success). Eagle has better range, but considerably less DPS.
Up close you should be using a Vagabond anyway, if you've trained Minmatar Cruiser V, Heavy Assault Ships and Projectile Weapons.
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.03.12 10:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dethis
Deimos gets primaried and blown up before it ever does anything usefull anyway, not to mention a brutix does the same job for an eighth of the price.
That is why the deimos is bad
which is why you should skip damage mods and shoehorn as much tank as possible on it and use it as a dps sink while your other gang members kill stuff. assuming gang is small enough for things like that to matter. in a bigger gang you have to fit lolrails anyway and tank wont matter.
Put in space whales!
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vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.17 10:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Butzewutze
Originally by: vanBuskirk
This matters because if you already have the support skills (and of course the command ship skill itself) caldari cruiser V gets you the Nighthawk
(rushes off to put caldari cruiser V in queue)
Maybe u missed that you need battlecruiser 5/5 for a commandship.
Nope. Read my post again. "including the command ship skill itself". Which of course means already having BC V.
At the moment I can fly both the Gallente commands. In 14 days 12 hours 29 minutes, I'll be able to fly both the Caldari ones as well. 
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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Mortis Tyrathlion
Twisted Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:57:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Edited by: Ig Neus on 11/03/2009 20:22:27
@Nonah
While I agree with a large part of your post, I want to comment on some things :
Quote:
Amarr and gallente have armor logisticboats. Amarr gets more lows, more highs and an energy transfer bonus. Gallente gets more mids, larger drone bay and pink colour. There's pretty much not a single reason to go with gallente here. Saying tracking links are crap would be optimistic.
There is a really good reason to go Gallente here. While Guardian gets more lows (5) and highs (6), it only gets two mediums. Fitting an ECCM is mandatory. So you get to pick between a Cap Booster, a propulsion mod and a Sensor Booster. No Sensor Booster means that a single ship with Dampeners removes you from battle. No Propulsion mod means that if your gang is moving you have problems following and that if you get Sensor Dampened it will take a long time until you get in your reduced range. No Cap Booster means you can run 4 of your repairers for about 2 minutes (with remote rep rigs and maxed skills), unless you gimp your tank to fit Cap Power Relays.
Oneiros, on the other hand has 4 Lows, 5 Mediums and 4 Highs. That means that you can fit 4 Repairers (you will not fit more in a guardian in 99% of cases anyway), a bit weaker tank BUT you can fit a Cap Booster, a Sensor Booster, an ECCM, a single tracking link and an AB (or MWD if you are willing to use a Reactor Control and downgrade tank).
That means that, if you are not in a pair of guardians, Oneiros is a better Logistic.
At which point I ask: why -aren't- you in a pair? A lone logistics is primary-bait, as I can attest from a few battles. Two logistics can support each other to ensure that even if they are taken down, they soak up a lot of damage, which gives time to do some serious harm to the attacking fleet. A lone one has no support unless it's in the middle of a remote-rep fleet - in which case, why not just bring another one, and be able to provide some DPS?
Whereas a pair of guardians has no need of a cap booster, and in a small-medium gang fight, can keep their fleet alive for a very long time.
Quote:
Edit : I am not really experienced on HICs but what I hear is that Phobos is a great HIC for small gangs as well since it can fit a good dual rep tank (just one low less than Devoter and close total resistances), use the 4 mids for SeBO, Web (this should help at small gangs), MWD and Cap Booster and it (probably) does the highest damage for its class.
My experiences are limited to lowsec, but there, a Broadsword or Onyx will always be superior to a Devoter/Phobos simply because it isn't limited to its supply of cap boosters...
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Originally by: Arcon Telf
OP, you should be honored, because this is the first time in my short Eve career I've felt the need to say this:
Azeroth is that way ------> 
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