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So how long do you need for DT now CCP?

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Dekkaard Vandor Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:34:00 - [1] Hi Guys, Given that you have now migrated the clusters over to this new SANRAM 500 Solid State Server, you mentioned that DT will be reduced because of it. Now I know this is the first DT since it was implemented but I was wondering how long you think DT will last in the future? Will it be significantly reduced from the 1 hour that it currently is? Just like to know Cheers Are you sure you want to go to Red Alert sir? It does mean changing the bulb!
Dari Anoh Amarr Anoh Shavar	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:39:00 - [2] Actually, the RAMSAN 500 was added recently, before Apocrypha was deployed. Downtime has regularly been around 30 minutes in fact, though it varies per day. Given we just received a massive expansion, in the coming days I'm expecting hotfixes to be applied at DT, meaning I wouldn't count on shorter downtimes right now if I were you.
Dante024781 Mercenary Evolution	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:43:00 - [3] I'm actually hoping for longer downtimes. That way I'll be forced back to my real life which I have been neglecting for some time now.
Del369 Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:45:00 - [4] Surely with all the new tech now employed downtime should in theory be all but eliminated, I'm just wondering if the computer systems of every major power in the world need to come down daily? or the banks? or the worlds largest companies? and an answer from CCP over if it is still needed then why exactly?
Deira Lenia Carebear Evolution Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Del369 Surely with all the new tech now employed downtime should in theory be all but eliminated, I'm just wondering if the computer systems of every major power in the world need to come down daily? or the banks? or the worlds largest companies? and an answer from CCP over if it is still needed then why exactly? Lets say the database is a paper bag. All the stuff that happens ingame is water. After a wile the bag would break and screw everything under it. So instead of having people emorage over another server crash, they empty the bag before it breaks once a day. -- Carebear Evolution. Learning People to explode since: Err, since we felt like it.
pipvac Sacred Templars Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:04:00 - [6] Edited by: pipvac on 11/03/2009 12:05:47 Quote: Lets say the database is a paper bag. All the stuff that happens ingame is water. After a wile the bag would break and screw everything under it. So instead of having people emorage over another server crash, they empty the bag before it breaks once a day. Yes, I see what you're saying... So the hardware and coding is woefully underspecced and inadequate for the task intended, when much safer more robust alternatives exist which could do the same job much better. After all, how many of us carry water around in paper bags? Desperately seeking originality since the first "can I have your stuff" since 2003.
Luana Lehrer	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Del369 Surely with all the new tech now employed downtime should in theory be all but eliminated, I'm just wondering if the computer systems of every major power in the world need to come down daily? or the banks? or the worlds largest companies? and an answer from CCP over if it is still needed then why exactly? Bank branches don't connect to the mainframes via the internet for a start. Add to that the FAR superior redundancy that a multi BILLION business can afford. I have played eve with 50k concurrent users, I doubt any bank can handle that anyway, there use of the main servers won't be concurrent.
Marguerite Antiki	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:14:00 - [8] Anyone else seen the server count down and on / off now 4 times ?
Black Omne Caldari House Of BlackStar SIRRIUS.	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:15:00 - [9] Daily downtime has been extended to 12.30 GMT/UTC due to a server-side hotfix deployment.
Vlade Psyker	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:15:00 - [10] Edited by: Vlade Psyker on 11/03/2009 12:17:06 what he said ^
Manfred Doomhammer Caldari ShadowTec Inc. Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:16:00 - [11] Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 11/03/2009 12:16:05 first downtime after expansion deployment, its only natural it takes longer for the hotfixes :P edit: you know its bad once they start handing out free days and rollbacks :P ---- CEO ShadowTec Inc. Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Vlade Psyker	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:16:00 - [12] Edited by: Vlade Psyker on 11/03/2009 12:16:46
angelena Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Vlade Psyker Edited by: Vlade Psyker on 11/03/2009 12:16:46 What he said. ^^^
Luana Lehrer	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 11/03/2009 12:16:05 first downtime after expansion deployment, its only natural it takes longer for the hotfixes :P edit: you know its bad once they start handing out free days and rollbacks :P It is like fitting a new front door ... It never unlocks easily the next few days ;)
Thercon Jair Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Marguerite Antiki Anyone else seen the server count down and on / off now 4 times ? That's a natural occurence with all those wormholes now in the server. There had to be some time/space disruptions... Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:19:00 - [16] All ur stuffs giev nao.
angelena Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Luana Lehrer Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 11/03/2009 12:16:05 first downtime after expansion deployment, its only natural it takes longer for the hotfixes :P edit: you know its bad once they start handing out free days and rollbacks :P It is like fitting a new front door ... It never unlocks easily the next few days ;) You need a better Carpenter.
Luana Lehrer	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:22:00 - [18] Originally by: angelena Originally by: Luana Lehrer Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 11/03/2009 12:16:05 first downtime after expansion deployment, its only natural it takes longer for the hotfixes :P edit: you know its bad once they start handing out free days and rollbacks :P It is like fitting a new front door ... It never unlocks easily the next few days ;) You need a better Carpenter. But my dad is free! As soon as I call him "Daddy" he knows I want something ;)
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:23:00 - [19] Originally by: pipvac So the hardware and coding is woefully underspecced and inadequate for the task intended, when much safer more robust alternatives exist which could do the same job much better. Not really, no. It's perfectly adequate and robust for the task at hand, and the cost of adding so much processing overhead to do these things only once a week aren't nearly worth it since they'ld lie idle >50% of the time. Also, I'd rather have short daily downtimes than a long weekly one. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:24:00 - [20] currently you can train all three characters at once.... I wouldn't be surprised if DT is another 2 hours..
DiaBlo UK Killer Koalas Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Del369 Surely with all the new tech now employed downtime should in theory be all but eliminated, I'm just wondering if the computer systems of every major power in the world need to come down daily? or the banks? or the worlds largest companies? and an answer from CCP over if it is still needed then why exactly? CCP have 'pretty much' stated, even if the tech becomes available to remove DT, they will probably still have a little each day, as some sov and outpost mechanics are applied when the server is down. without a big change in these parts of the game, a small DT will be with us for the forseeable future. Originally by: CCP Navigator Pretty sure someone is selling tinfoil hats. You should buy one Originally by: CCP Zulupark Trollin' with my homies!
Grosses Geld	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Del369 Surely with all the new tech now employed downtime should in theory be all but eliminated, I'm just wondering if the computer systems of every major power in the world need to come down daily? or the banks? or the worlds largest companies? and an answer from CCP over if it is still needed then why exactly? Strangely enough, a lot of financial institutions have regular daily maintenance tasks which run overnight and on weekends. These tend to have a negative effect on performance but due to most of their customers and staff being asleep they're able to run them without taking their systems offline; the degraded performance isn't noticable due to a lack of users. I won't pretend to know anything about what CCP do but it wouldn't surprise me if their daily downtime involves the likes of cleaning indexes and removing cack from the databases, updating caching metrics and the like in order maintain optimal performance. This sort of work would affect game performance so I guess they take everything offline because of that performance hit.
Zachariah Carter Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:35:00 - [23] any1 able to log in yet ? 12:35 GMT here
Khamous Neo Spartans	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Zachariah Carter any1 able to log in yet ? 12:35 GMT here Given the fact there was a huge patch deployed yesterday (server back up on time I might add) I think we can cut them a bit of slack for spending a bit extra time ironing out some kinks today.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Dante024781 I'm actually hoping for longer downtimes. That way I'll be forced back to my real life which I have been neglecting for some time now. Real life? Hmm. YIKES! runs off to do all the stuff he'd forgotten to do in the last few months... *Let My People Go*
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency Ignition.	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Grosses Geld Originally by: Del369 Surely with all the new tech now employed downtime should in theory be all but eliminated, I'm just wondering if the computer systems of every major power in the world need to come down daily? or the banks? or the worlds largest companies? and an answer from CCP over if it is still needed then why exactly? Strangely enough, a lot of financial institutions have regular daily maintenance tasks which run overnight and on weekends. These tend to have a negative effect on performance but due to most of their customers and staff being asleep they're able to run them without taking their systems offline; the degraded performance isn't noticable due to a lack of users. I won't pretend to know anything about what CCP do but it wouldn't surprise me if their daily downtime involves the likes of cleaning indexes and removing cack from the databases, updating caching metrics and the like in order maintain optimal performance. This sort of work would affect game performance so I guess they take everything offline because of that performance hit. EVE works differently. Most probably they back-up logs (all kinds - performance, market, chat), run periodic checks, and apply hotfixes. Due to the fact that the server needs to be rebooted to apply hotfixes, reset logs, and all that, then yes, the downtime is required - there is no way to do it on a live server. --- Have a rawr on me.
Chatea	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:39:00 - [27] Say that EvE is a puppy. And CCP is a dog biscuit. If the dog ate all the biscuits, what would he do next?
Fran Drescher	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:40:00 - [28] im in
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Grosses Geld I won't pretend to know anything about what CCP do but it wouldn't surprise me if their daily downtime involves the likes of cleaning indexes and removing cack from the databases, updating caching metrics and the like in order maintain optimal performance. This sort of work would affect game performance so I guess they take everything offline because of that performance hit. Close enough. More exactly: Originally by: CCP John Proctor I think I can aswer this question as I am usually the one doing the down times EVE is a rather large game running on a large server cluster comprising of 2 "farms" You have your proxy servers that you directly connect to, then you have your sol servers where your session is directed too and where all your interactions are carried out at (flying around in space etc...) We have server processes that run as services on these boxes and are constnatly generating logs and consuming resources on the box, and restarting these services clears there memory and allows us to save there generated logs. Normally our down times in the past were 20 minutes with Tuesdays and Thursdays reserved for maintiance. But with a larger customer base the needs for maintiance has grown and we have 1 hour downtimes now Monday through Friday and stay with the normal 20 minute downtimes during the weekend. Now why does maintiance need 1 hour you ask? For 20 minutes of every downtime we have downtime jobs that run. These jobs do everything from reseeding asteriods (there are millions of them) too cleaning up space by deleting corpses (I shed a tear everytime a corpse gets deleted ) to clearing out old logs, deploying outposts, and conducting statistical gathering... While the server crunches the numbers we do not conduct any normal maintiance as we dont want to lock tables and interfere with the normal downtime jobs so our maintiance must occur outside of this 20 minute window. Maintiance that needs to be done includes defragmenting the index's that we have on our database... (with over 150 million transactions per day that leads to quite a bit of logical fragmentation) We also delete junkyards on a constant basis... We have designed EvE so that when you get your ship blown up or you refine your ore or you delete an item in your hanger those items are not deleted but instead moved to a junkyard, in this way it allows our Customer Support staff to easily give your items back or allows us to see if something abnormal is happening. But we need to manually delete junkyards that are more then a month old, with over 30 thousand people constantly logged in every day, with over 100 thousand unique users logged in every day those are a lot of items that are created and deleted every day that accumulate over time. This is only a tip of the ice berg if what we do during these downtimes but we are trying to create ways to eliminate these and have maintiance done dynamicly as needed automaticly by the system. In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!" ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Del369 Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:56:00 - [30] Quote: This is only a tip of the ice berg if what we do during these downtimes but we are trying to create ways to eliminate these and have maintiance done dynamicly as needed automaticly by the system. In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!" Now this makes me happy, and from the rest of it, point taken, and if they are working to ending downtime, that's really cool, carry on

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