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Kurlieu
Gallente The Ore House
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Posted - 2009.03.12 15:54:00 -
[31]
I'm trying to look at the upside. Now, when I open my blueprint container I don't have to think about what probe I'm going to manufacture. Of course I really don't need 15 of the same blueprint. Life goes on.
I'm not sure I'd be interested in training additional skills just to get back what I already had.
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider -1
8AU deeps are quite revealing sometimes as it is
That was what I was going to say. Deep Space Scan Probe is pretty cloe to the old Multispec. You even get 100% warpable hits to Combat Sites.
I could see why BPO/BPC owners might be miffed, but really, those things will sell. All my probe stash got converted to Cores, so now I have about 1000 of them, I won't have to buy any for a while.
I also think that many of us hardcore explorers find the new system easy because we have maxed skills and experience. I think new explorers will have a harder time scanning sites down as quickly as we do.
Ashamedly, I do miss being able to probe and mine at the same time.
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ruze Third, there's no 'i-win' with the multispectral probe.
Multispec wasn't i-win, it was "i will/won't bother spending an hour in this system" that is all. My only complaint is that I can only play in short stints so knowing if I'm barking up the right tree is very helpful. Using my hour or two of play time scanning down more grav and wh sites isn't my idea of time well spent. Spending an hour hoping for a hit with the old system wasn't fun, no, but at least I was chasing a known/desired target.
I'll give deep space probes another look though, thanks to whoever suggested that. |
Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Ruze Third, there's no 'i-win' with the multispectral probe.
Multispec wasn't i-win, it was "i will/won't bother spending an hour in this system" that is all. My only complaint is that I can only play in short stints so knowing if I'm barking up the right tree is very helpful. Using my hour or two of play time scanning down more grav and wh sites isn't my idea of time well spent. Spending an hour hoping for a hit with the old system wasn't fun, no, but at least I was chasing a known/desired target.
I'll give deep space probes another look though, thanks to whoever suggested that.
Then learn how to use the deep space probes because they do MORE than the old multispecs did, when you narrow the scan down enough they tell you exactly WHICH exploration site you are getting. You can reduce the deep space probe range all the way down to 2.0 AU which will give you all the details on any site you could possibly find.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:48:00 -
[35]
not saying that deeps replace the ole' multis - they're just more powerful at 8AU than core probes
still, having gone from 2h quest-probing to 10min triangulating is quite a difference.
besides, you dont have to go all 100% on the site: the type shows up before (even a bit sooner if you do a single-probe scan in between triangulations)
so i'd say you lose ~5 minutes on an unwanted site
and then there's the first solo-probe results: get a feel for the signal strengths and you'll soon be able to determine the existence of WHs from that alone - i can't yet but i begin to see a pattern -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Agramen
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:46:00 -
[36]
My 0.02 isk:
I played with the scanning system on the test server before it went live, and actually, I like the new system for dropping, moving, triangulating and tracking down sites. The old system was boring and tedious. The new system is more interactive and doesn't promote 5 to 10 minute coffee breaks.
I like they way the flipped the skills in rigs around. Scan time used to be the bottleneck, but w/ 6 second scans, scan strength becomes the bottleneck, the rearranging of skill and rig abilities effects this better now.
What I don't like is the hegemony and the dumbing down of the system. One probe to rule them all. You can't tell one signature from another, until you're already closing in on it, after which you've already wasted half your time.
Damnit, give us back our single purpose probes, even if you keep the multipurpose around. |
Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.12 18:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Agramen My 0.02 isk:
I played with the scanning system on the test server before it went live, and actually, I like the new system for dropping, moving, triangulating and tracking down sites. The old system was boring and tedious. The new system is more interactive and doesn't promote 5 to 10 minute coffee breaks.
I like they way the flipped the skills in rigs around. Scan time used to be the bottleneck, but w/ 6 second scans, scan strength becomes the bottleneck, the rearranging of skill and rig abilities effects this better now.
What I don't like is the hegemony and the dumbing down of the system. One probe to rule them all. You can't tell one signature from another, until you're already closing in on it, after which you've already wasted half your time.
Damnit, give us back our single purpose probes, even if you keep the multipurpose around.
*sigh* I'll say it again....learn to use the deep-space probes. If you don't know which site you're scanning down long before you actually start scanning for it YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!
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Kalenia Rostok
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Posted - 2009.03.12 18:44:00 -
[38]
Bring back the multi-spectral!
And why are some gas cloud sites listed as LADAR?
When you get a bunch of hits (that are not the same site), finding YET ANOTHER DRONE SITE is not what I want to do. Filter me my RADAR/LADAR/Gravimetric right off the bat.
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2009.03.12 18:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Synnyr I get that the scanning mechanics had to be simplified so any cretin could find a wormhole.
I can confirm that I've found one
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Tramp Oline
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Posted - 2009.03.12 18:52:00 -
[40]
We just need the ability to filter cosmic signatures by type. Give us check boxes that we can use to determine which types of cosmic signatures that we want to scan for.
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OMGJITA
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Posted - 2009.03.12 19:02:00 -
[41]
Edited by: OMGJITA on 12/03/2009 19:02:42
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa No, we are complaining because something that was difficult that we spent time training for has now become easy. It's like saying:
CCP: Man, look at all those people that trained Battleship to 5. That's a Rank 8 skill. Look at all these new players we have. Let's make Battleship a Rank 6 skill.
They basically just did that with probes.
Look at it this way:
We took time to train for something to be good at it. We trained up all sorts of skills to use a variety of probes EFFECTIVELY and then you wiped the multispectral probes from the market.
Multispecs did not make scanning EASIER, they made it convenient so we could optimize our time and not spend hours scanning out crap that we didn't want. I am not trained to do Magnetometrics, for example. If I found one with a multispec I moved to the next system. Now we don't have that luxury, and it upsets us.
Well ive got a max scanning char, (AND I MEAN MAXED, everything lvl5), and if you think the skillpoints dont help, your off your face. The Skills still have the same difficulty to learn in terms of time so your example of a Battleship skill chaning training multipliers is *******s.
with max scanning skills, you WILL find exploration sites easyer than the guyw ith crappy scanning skills.
FACT.
stop emo raging and bringing up bad examples that dont support your point.
and ohhh yher, this.
Originally by: Minsc
*sigh* I'll say it again....learn to use the deep-space probes. If you don't know which site you're scanning down long before you actually start scanning for it YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!
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Kalenia Rostok
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Posted - 2009.03.12 19:21:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kalenia Rostok on 12/03/2009 19:24:57
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher That was what I was going to say. Deep Space Scan Probe is pretty cloe to the old Multispec. You even get 100% warpable hits to Combat Sites.
I can get that with a core probe set at 32 AU now... Maybe my uber skills are letting me do it, but I don't want combat sites. I don't want drone sites. I don't want wormholes! I don't want unknowns. I don't want wrecks/ships/whatever.
I want the old gravi's mostly, and sometimes the old RADAR/LADAR/Magneto's.
Narrowing down a single return doesn't take long (wish they would add "probe formations" so I would haven't to keep using the clunky UI to move them into the optimal formation each time), but when you pop out a single probe and get 32 returns, well, that's just not so much fun... is one of them a gravi? You could spend more time than that searching for a 0.03 trying to go through them all, and there's no way to "filter out" ones you've already found.
ARRRGHHHHHHHHH
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Shanija
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Posted - 2009.03.12 19:26:00 -
[43]
The new probe system is unbelievably great. I love it! It's an absolutely incredible leap over the horrid old system.
The complaints that skills make no difference now are off mark, though. Scan strength is absolutely important now - it's a time-saver in the worst case, but in the best case (from the is-the-skill-helping-me point of view) sites can be literally impossible to uncover if your scan strength isn't high enough.
I've had a site where my probes were literally around 0.025 AU (not a typo) from the target each, on the highest scan setting - I could hardly move them closer because you can't zoom in close enough to do it. And I still couldn't get 100% signal strength to warp to the site. I came back later with more scan strength and managed to find the site.
I don't have much comment on the bring-back-multispectrals part; the new scanning is fast and fun enough so far that I'm just taking not always finding the types I'd like in stride. It sounds like investing in the super probes would be a great idea, though!
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NeoTheo
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 20:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shanija The new probe system is unbelievably great. I love it! It's an absolutely incredible leap over the horrid old system.
The complaints that skills make no difference now are off mark, though. Scan strength is absolutely important now - it's a time-saver in the worst case, but in the best case (from the is-the-skill-helping-me point of view) sites can be literally impossible to uncover if your scan strength isn't high enough.
I've had a site where my probes were literally around 0.025 AU (not a typo) from the target each, on the highest scan setting - I could hardly move them closer because you can't zoom in close enough to do it. And I still couldn't get 100% signal strength to warp to the site. I came back later with more scan strength and managed to find the site.
I don't have much comment on the bring-back-multispectrals part; the new scanning is fast and fun enough so far that I'm just taking not always finding the types I'd like in stride. It sounds like investing in the super probes would be a great idea, though!
this pretty much covers it, scan time is now negligble; strenght thesedays is EVERYTHING. Putting a core launcher on your normal ship gives you options but you will never scan as effectivly as a skilled prober in a proper probing ship (hence the bonus change on the ships).
- F-OFF - ExE
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Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.12 21:14:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kalenia Rostok Edited by: Kalenia Rostok on 12/03/2009 19:24:57
Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher That was what I was going to say. Deep Space Scan Probe is pretty cloe to the old Multispec. You even get 100% warpable hits to Combat Sites.
I can get that with a core probe set at 32 AU now... Maybe my uber skills are letting me do it, but I don't want combat sites. I don't want drone sites. I don't want wormholes! I don't want unknowns. I don't want wrecks/ships/whatever.
I want the old gravi's mostly, and sometimes the old RADAR/LADAR/Magneto's.
Narrowing down a single return doesn't take long (wish they would add "probe formations" so I would haven't to keep using the clunky UI to move them into the optimal formation each time), but when you pop out a single probe and get 32 returns, well, that's just not so much fun... is one of them a gravi? You could spend more time than that searching for a 0.03 trying to go through them all, and there's no way to "filter out" ones you've already found.
ARRRGHHHHHHHHH
You're not getting it, the deep space probes tell you the freaking NAME of the deadspace signatures, such as "Sansha's Outpost Blah-d-blah" before you even have to bother popping out a single core probe.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.03.12 21:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kalenia Rostok Bring back the multi-spectral!
And why are some gas cloud sites listed as LADAR?
may i question your knowledge of exploration? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Terror DeBiaN
Lucid Space Discoveries
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Posted - 2009.03.12 21:40:00 -
[47]
The only complaint I have with the new system is I cannot eliminate sites I have already scanned to 100% out of the list of other signatures found. I should be able to eliminate each signature in a system as I find them.
Terror --- CEO - Lucid Space Discoveries -LSD- |
Synnyr
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:17:00 -
[48]
I will work with the Deep Space Probe to see if that is better.
Nonetheless it's difficult to comprehend the lost time and millions upon millions of isk spent. I've got an implant I paid over 30 million isk for that increases my scanning time by 6 percent. Whoopee!
People who say the probes will sell don't seem to understand that probes are recoverable. You don't need to buy more than 5 or 10 your entire lifetime. What am I going to do with 1000 of them and 13 blueprints? I guess I could go to newbie zones and pass them out to encourage more competition for the sites I'm after...
Thanks for the constructive responses...and even for the other ones.
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Synnyr
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Posted - 2009.03.13 02:47:00 -
[49]
After spending more time with the system I've concluded that it isn't my cup of tea. Not that it matters to anyone but me...but it really is a waste of time now.
I expect the prices of items coming from Radar/Archeology sites will go up since the new system is unwieldly at best.
To those who like it - Enjoy! I think I'm going to have to turn to a life of crime to make isk now. lol. |
AmeNoNuhoko
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Posted - 2009.03.13 06:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Synnyr
Nonetheless it's difficult to comprehend the lost time and millions upon millions of isk spent. I've got an implant I paid over 30 million isk for that increases my scanning time by 6 percent. Whoopee!
The PPG-1 gave about the same level of benefit in the old system; 3% signal strength wasn't a big benefit either. That 0.02 site would be 0.0206 instead.
Really, the skills and implants are worth about as much now as they were in the old system, it's just that time and strength have swapped in importance, and the skills and implants have swapped to compensate. |
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allmus
Minmatar Amistad Annihilate
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Posted - 2009.03.13 08:02:00 -
[51]
i got to agree with the OP, we need a probe like the multi that will tell us what types are in the system, i have lvl4 skills in all scanner related skills, also a cheetah ship and rigs to help. it took me 5 hrs to lock down a wormhole which lead to a really hard unknown. i'm fine with that, if i want to find stuff like that, the harder it is to find the better, but i was only looking for a grav/radar site to begin with, if i knew there wasn't one in the system i wouldn't have bothered finding the wormhole and therefore it would have been left to someone else who actually wanted it.
i don't mind the new system, but i mind not being able to tell if it's worth my time or not scanning a system. please please please bring back multi's |
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