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shadeblade2
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Posted - 2009.03.12 20:38:00 -
[1]
was looking at the orca and noticed you cant place strip miners on it, was hoping i could.
i usually play eve alone and dont have a corp to mine with so being able to do so would have made it a viable ship for me to get
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shady trader
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Posted - 2009.03.12 21:35:00 -
[2]
This has been asked for before. CCP do not want to create a miner better then the hulk,as a result they specifically built the Orca and its big brother as mining support ships.
Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions. |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.12 21:38:00 -
[3]
Edited by: silken mouth on 12/03/2009 21:39:01
like that would be the case... its yield would be worse than that of a covetor...
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Killshot DeathBunny
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Posted - 2009.03.12 22:28:00 -
[4]
Can't even put on Miner II.
THAT is a crime.
OTOH.
if the Orca were able to mine at all that would be the Macro tool of choice, with all that cargo space, immediately after DT the FLEETS of Orcas would pull out of the stations and park at one end of the belts and prolly never leave :(
If you allowed the Orca to mine at a level somewhere between Retriever and Covetor, I doubt the macros would bother, and it'd be worth using as a second ship in a team.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.12 23:04:00 -
[5]
Easiest explanation... besides "game mechanics blah blah blah"
The Orca is the foreman's ride... and when have you ever seen a foreman on a job site do actual work?
Their whole purpose is to bark orders and drink coffee.
---
Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.12 23:24:00 -
[6]
i'd love to see the orca fitting three strip miners / harvesters, and preforming slightly below the hulk with ore and mackinaw with ice....
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shadeblade2
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:50:00 -
[7]
so would i
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.13 01:15:00 -
[8]
I'd love to see an Orca that warps to the middle of the belt... emits a smartbomb pulse that destroys all the asteroids... and then sucks the ore directly into the hold.
Or maybe just a small module, kinda looks like nickel slot machine... and everytime it cycles, the ISK in my wallet doubles.
---
Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration
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Posted - 2009.03.13 09:32:00 -
[9]
No.
The Orca and the Rorqual are mining directors. They do not serve as miners. In high sec I -love- the Hulk, you don't need a better miner in high sec.
In nul sec it's a totally different story. People don't take the Hulk there because it gets blown up too easily and it costs too much money. So they take the next best thing and that's the Covetor. Both options are useless. Nul sec, and it has been repeated -many- times, needs a capital class miner [can't go into high sec, don't even think about it].
The fighter jocks never stop dreaming up new and improved combat ships and they come in a dazzling variety. At the same time there's 2 types of dedicated mining vehicle and the tech II version is a souped up version of the tech I. See the respective threads about it. Many people have posted very thoughtful and worthwhile ideas on the topic.
Strip miners on the Orca is -not- the answer.
Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 09:48:00 -
[10]
No!
Orcas are support ships and supposed to be used in gangs. They do their role very very well and need no change. If you don't want to be in a gang, use a hulk. Simple. It's not because you spent 600 mill on a ship that it is supposed to do everything you want it to.
Asking for strip miners on an orca is the same thing as asking carriers and motherships to be able to fit capital sized guns, with slight less dps then a dread. It's ridiculous! Carriers and motherships are support ships and are only strong when you have a support fleet of at least 4-5 ppl. Same thing with orcas.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.13 11:41:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Abulurd Boniface
No.
The Orca and the Rorqual are mining directors. They do not serve as miners. In high sec I -love- the Hulk, you don't need a better miner in high sec.
In nul sec it's a totally different story. People don't take the Hulk there because it gets blown up too easily and it costs too much money. So they take the next best thing and that's the Covetor. Both options are useless. Nul sec, and it has been repeated -many- times, needs a capital class miner [can't go into high sec, don't even think about it].
The fighter jocks never stop dreaming up new and improved combat ships and they come in a dazzling variety. At the same time there's 2 types of dedicated mining vehicle and the tech II version is a souped up version of the tech I. See the respective threads about it. Many people have posted very thoughtful and worthwhile ideas on the topic.
Strip miners on the Orca is -not- the answer.
Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO
Originally by: Silken mouth
i'd love to see the orca fitting three strip miners / harvesters, and preforming slightly below the hulk with ore and mackinaw with ice....
why, oh, why?
see, what i mean...?
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
Mercantile Exchange for Mining And Exploration
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 13/03/2009 12:33:54
Originally by: silken mouth
why, oh, why?
see, what i mean...?
No, we don't need crippled ships with some arbitrary restrictions to make up for their revised role.
High sec is very well served with the Hulk and the Orca. Each performs exemplary in their role [with a bit more love (from me) for the Hulk].
It is nul sec that needs the new mining space frame.
I support any good idea for a mining ship, but a better miner for high sec is a useless request and will just be ignored by Reykjavik. It is a much better idea to support a nul sec miner, an area that is decidedly underserved.
Don't try to finagle some changes to the Orca. You'll get nowhere.
Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.13 13:03:00 -
[13]
Edited by: silken mouth on 13/03/2009 13:04:05
Originally by: Abulurd Boniface
Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 13/03/2009 12:33:54
Originally by: silken mouth
why, oh, why?
see, what i mean...?
No, we don't need crippled ships with some arbitrary restrictions to make up for their revised role.
High sec is very well served with the Hulk and the Orca. Each performs exemplary in their role [with a bit more love (from me) for the Hulk].
It is nul sec that needs the new mining space frame.
I support any good idea for a mining ship, but a better miner for high sec is a useless request and will just be ignored by Reykjavik. It is a much better idea to support a nul sec miner, an area that is decidedly underserved.
Don't try to finagle some changes to the Orca. You'll get nowhere.
Abulurd Boniface
ME ME
CEO
Originally by: silken mouth
i'd love to see the orca fitting three strip miners / harvesters, and preforming slightly below the hulk with ore and mackinaw with ice....
improve your reading comprehension!
nobody said better! it was specifically said that perform not as good as exhumers...
and btw, the hulk is perfectly fine for nullsec... as are all the exhumers...
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.13 13:38:00 -
[14]
Can I keep requoting myself as a standard response too? That looks like a much easier way to argue anyways.
Orca is a SUPPORT craft. It's not meant to be mining at all... it's meant to SUPPORT the other miners in the group. Yes, the group... because mining can be done by more than one person at the same time.
You know what mines better than a Hulk? Two Hulks!
You know what supports a Low Sec mining op better than an Orca? A Rorqual!
The Orca is a High Sec Rorqual... it's a command ship for boosting, it's a carrier for transporting 2x Hulks to the site, it's spacious enough to function as one heck of a hauler... The only thing it doesn't do, is MINE the rocks for you. And you're complaining about that!
So... can I have my nickel slot machine module, that doubles my ISK for me?
---
Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 13:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: silken mouth
improve your reading comprehension!
nobody said better! it was specifically said that perform not as good as exhumers...
and btw, the hulk is perfectly fine for nullsec... as are all the exhumers...
Man you really are slow... so I will spell it out for you.
A mining orca has a HUGE amount more HP then any exhumer, so no need to worry about a tank for rats nor being suicide ganked.
A mining orca has an insanely bigger cargo hold then any exhumer, so you don't need to warp to station to drop things off that often. You can mine for hours without needing to leave the belt.
So even if you mine "slightly less then an exhumer" as you naively put it, it will still be an insanely better mining ship for highsec than any other exhumer. It will be the dream come through for all macro miners.
So... NO! drop it! Bad idea. If you really don't want to join mining ops with other corp mates, sell your orca and stich to your exhumers. Period.
Got it now?
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.13 14:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Can I keep requoting myself as a standard response too? That looks like a much easier way to argue anyways.
Orca is a SUPPORT craft. It's not meant to be mining at all... it's meant to SUPPORT the other miners in the group. Yes, the group... because mining can be done by more than one person at the same time.
You know what mines better than a Hulk? Two Hulks!
You know what supports a Low Sec mining op better than an Orca? A Rorqual!
The Orca is a High Sec Rorqual... it's a command ship for boosting, it's a carrier for transporting 2x Hulks to the site, it's spacious enough to function as one heck of a hauler... The only thing it doesn't do, is MINE the rocks for you. And you're complaining about that!
So... can I have my nickel slot machine module, that doubles my ISK for me?
for the orca to actually improve mining efficiency you will need at least 7 pilots...
6 hulks in one ore belt? pointless especially with strip miner ranges of 20k..
spreading 6 hulks over multiple belts? sure, problem is that gang mods dont work in warp...
in other words the orca is gimped!
it was suppossed to be Originally by: devblog
...,it is ideal for the day to day needs of corporations or individuals.
what does the orca do for individuals?
carrying sub-bs sized rigged vessels around? how often do you do that?
large cargo bay for freighter runs? get a freighter!
what does it do for corps?
mining support? as mentioned it does a crappy job, because you can either use it for gang bonus or ore storage but not both...
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AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 14:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: AshtarDJ on 13/03/2009 14:10:21
Originally by: silken mouth
for the orca to actually improve mining efficiency you will need at least 7 pilots...
Actually, 1 orca + 4 hulks perform better then 5 hulks.
Originally by: silken mouth
spreading 6 hulks over multiple belts? sure, problem is that gang mods dont work in warp...
in other words the orca is gimped!
Is this your best argument? How often do you need to warp your orca during a mining op?
Originally by: silken mouth
what does the orca do for individuals?
Nothing. Was never intended to do and will never be changed to do.
Originally by: silken mouth
carrying sub-bs sized rigged vessels around? how often do you do that?
So carry extra haulers to a mining op or a cruiser to pop nasty rats isn't good?
Originally by: silken mouth
what does it do for corps?
mining support? as mentioned it does a crappy job, because you can either use it for gang bonus or ore storage but not both...
Why not??? Cargo expanders use lows and rig slots. Gang mods use highs. 1 tractor beam doesn't rly gimp a gang setup.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.13 14:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: silken mouth on 13/03/2009 14:33:58
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Edited by: AshtarDJ on 13/03/2009 14:10:21
Originally by: silken mouth
for the orca to actually improve mining efficiency you will need at least 7 pilots...
Actually, 1 orca + 4 hulks perform better then 5 hulks.
have you actually done the math, or are you simply stating something you believe to remember?
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: silken mouth
spreading 6 hulks over multiple belts? sure, problem is that gang mods dont work in warp...
in other words the orca is gimped!
Is this your best argument? How often do you need to warp your orca during a mining op?
well how is the ore from those exhumers in the other belts gonna come to your orca? secret beaming device or what?
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: silken mouth
what does the orca do for individuals?
Nothing. Was never intended to do and will never be changed to do.
i quoted the dev blog for a reason... i am sure you simply overread it...
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: silken mouth
carrying sub-bs sized rigged vessels around? how often do you do that?
So carry extra haulers to a mining op or a cruiser to pop nasty rats isn't good?
nasty rats in highsec? hobo 2s do the job just fine, extra hauler what for exactly? moving ore from orca to station? or from exhumer in other belt to orca? in either case you need about twice as much pilots to outperform a pure exhumer fleet of the same size...
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: silken mouth
what does it do for corps?
mining support? as mentioned it does a crappy job, because you can either use it for gang bonus or ore storage but not both...
Why not??? Cargo expanders use lows and rig slots. Gang mods use highs. 1 tractor beam doesn't rly gimp a gang setup.
As i said the ore has to get to you, so you can either warp, no gang boost then, or use a hauler, which means twice the fleet size to be more effective than a pure exhumer fleet.
the only point where this does not apply is ice mining, but mining veld is much more lucrative, with current ice prices.
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AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 14:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: silken mouth
...random angry rants...
Dude... I feel sorry for you. I really do. You don't want to take part of what Eve is all about, doing stuff together with ppl who you like flying with. Instead you just want to earn isk while you are semi-afk from the game and can't stand the fact that the ship that you've just bought doesn't do what you want it to do. Bad luck mate.
If doing a mining op with some friends requires such a huge effort from everyone involved, why did you buy one in the first place? So you can start whining in the forums trying to get CCP to change a ship just so you need to do less when you are "online"?
Sad.
GL with changing this "monumental enslaving machine" of yours. Send me an Eve-mail the day the orca gets strip miners and I promise that I will send you 1 mill of tritt to congratulate you on your new awesomeness.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.13 15:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: silken mouth
...random angry rants...
Dude... I feel sorry for you. I really do. You don't want to take part of what Eve is all about, doing stuff together with ppl who you like flying with. Instead you just want to earn isk while you are semi-afk from the game and can't stand the fact that the ship that you've just bought doesn't do what you want it to do. Bad luck mate.
If doing a mining op with some friends requires such a huge effort from everyone involved, why did you buy one in the first place? So you can start whining in the forums trying to get CCP to change a ship just so you need to do less when you are "online"?
Sad.
GL with changing this "monumental enslaving machine" of yours. Send me an Eve-mail the day the orca gets strip miners and I promise that I will send you 1 mill of tritt to congratulate you on your new awesomeness.
right....
just because the orca is imo flawed and you are unable to produce hard prove that my arguments are not valid all my statements are rants...
sure thing..
but like you said before, you dont mine, so where does your, yet to be unveild, expertise come from?
the orca as a miner support platform anything but ideal, because providing gang support only becomes useful at a 12 ships scale, except for ice mining, where 7 ship fleets are sufficient.
CCP announced in their devblog that the orca is also supposed to be a worthy asset for individuals, which it , except when acting as a smallscale freighter, is not.
and i really dont understand what is so horribly wrong about giving it the ability to fit strip miners and harvester.
sure it has a bigger cargohold, but thats a issue of balancing the mining yield so that it doesnt outperform solo exhumers. the idea is that 1 orca + 1 exhumer > 2 Exhumers or 2 orcas.....
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Da'iel Zehn
Construct Core Operations
Construct Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:12:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Da''iel Zehn on 13/03/2009 16:22:40
I want an Orca that can use 8 Strip miners with bonuses and the ability to use 10 miner II drones. Would be able to make jumps without the need of a cyno.
Nevermind, just give me a ship called a Rock Maw. Then I could fly around and just eat rocks. Would have a big mechanical mouth on it and I could watch the rocks get chewed up. Then it would fart big dust clouds!
hehehe... 
edit: The big farty dust clouds could then be harvest with gas harvesters for the use in all sorts of items. 
--
DZ's website
Got a problem? Talk to my gun.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: procurement specialist on 13/03/2009 16:44:59
Originally by: Da'iel Zehn
I want an Orca that can use 8 Strip miners with bonuses and the ability to use 10 miner II drones. Would be able to make jumps without the need of a cyno.
Nevermind, just give me a ship called a Rock Maw. Then I could fly around and just eat rocks. Would have a big mechanical mouth on it and I could watch the rocks get chewed up.
i just want a drone miner line. make it use turret miners and get big drone mining bonuses. i love bees.
actually that graphic would be really sweet on the Rock Maw.
actually with implant and max skills you get like 15% more yield on lasers and nearly 30% reduction in cycle time. thus a 4th gang member in a bc to tak on rats is equal to the hulk pilot gang leader with the implant and no mining links.
if you are sticking someone in a bc to give bonuses anyway an orca beats that.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Da'iel Zehn
Edited by: Da''iel Zehn on 13/03/2009 16:22:40
I want an Orca that can use 8 Strip miners with bonuses and the ability to use 10 miner II drones. Would be able to make jumps without the need of a cyno.
Nevermind, just give me a ship called a Rock Maw. Then I could fly around and just eat rocks. Would have a big mechanical mouth on it and I could watch the rocks get chewed up. Then it would fart big dust clouds!
hehehe...
edit: The big farty dust clouds could then be harvest with gas harvesters for the use in all sorts of items.
hilarious! not constructive, but a good laugh...
thanks for the bump..
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shadeblade2
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:32:00 -
[24]
this thread has sparked a few things i need to clarify. i have never said i mine in highsec or have bought an orca. i was just looking at it as a viable ship for me.
the main reason i wanted it was to have a little bit more of a chance of surviving pirate attacks where im at.
and the reason im solo is because i have not FOUND a corp that is active during the time im able to play. i have found that a wandering player would be willing to haul for me for a cut of the mins but that is rare and not always reliable.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:51:00 -
[25]
Well... the whole reason the Orca was added, was to be a mining support craft for high sec mining.
If you're mining in Low Sec, then go get a Rorqual. You'll get cargo space, command bonuses, ore compression, jump clones, washer and dryer, and a free oil change.
---
Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
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