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Michelle Kaku
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:17:00 -
[1]
I been working to raise my production efficiency to 5 because that is when I was told you could start making some decent cash with manufacturing... and now I am having a huge amount of trouble attempting to??
I've had suggestions to stick to rigs for awhile as those are the best profit, so I have a CCC and CDFP BPO raised at 150 efficiency each. But for the CCC, I am actually LOSING money each one. The Purger is not quite as bad, but it is still only a fraction of the numbers the calculator initially told me.
Making 500k off of every 16mil spent is not very profitable at all, especially when you have to wait for each of these to sell.
What am I doing wrong? How can I actually make some cash by manufacturing?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/03/2009 00:23:35
500k for 16 mil is 3% profit, which is kind of low indeed. I would suggest buying your materials with buy orders intead of buying whatever is cheapest for sale at the moment. Oh, and 150 ME was a waste. You get perfect build somewhere around 20 ME (can't recall the exact amount).
P.S. No, that's about right. That's how you make cash manufacturing. You just haven't scaled up enough and you're not looking at the right items. Try this.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Michelle Kaku
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Akita T 500k for 16 mil is 3% profit, which is kind of low indeed. I would suggest buying your materials with buy orders intead of buying whatever is cheapest for sale at the moment. Oh, and 150 ME was a waste. You get perfect build somewhere around 20 ME (can't recall the exact amount).
That % is not even including the loss of sales tax....
I set up some buy orders for the salvage pieces for the rigs but havent got nearly enough to even make one rig in the last few days.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:30:00 -
[4]
That's how manufacturing in a hub works. You can't expect to compete with people that set buy orders, have nearly maxed standings and trade skills, alongside maxed manufacture skills and researched blueprints, if you don't also do your research beforehand. Like I said, read this, enter your skills, update for the prices in your area, and start digging around for stuff that's actually worth manufacturing.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Michelle Kaku
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Akita T That's how manufacturing in a hub works. You can't expect to compete with people that set buy orders, have nearly maxed standings and trade skills, alongside maxed manufacture skills and researched blueprints, if you don't also do your research beforehand. Like I said, read this, enter your skills, update for the prices in your area, and start digging around for stuff that's actually worth manufacturing.
Didnt see the link the first time.
Nice tool, thanks. I'll see what I can do =)
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W3370Pi4
Caldari Lords Of Kaos
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Posted - 2009.03.15 00:48:00 -
[6]
Hello 2 words Market Research _______ Join the "Legit Trading" Channel *Monitored WTB*WTA*WTT*WTS*Contracts*Trade ADs** Scam free channel* |
Jason Marshall
Gallente Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:55:00 -
[7]
Move your buy orders around. Mission hubs, 0.0 entry hubs. Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.15 12:07:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sidrat Flush on 15/03/2009 12:07:52 Use Eve Material Level Calculator as well, search for it using ML Calc.
That will give you the perfect ML numbers for any blueprint you want to know about and gives you the ability to find out how much each item will cost when you type the price per unit in.
It also does other stuff, but mainly finding out how much to research a bpo is what it's best for, and will save you many many days.
Production itself at least for profit requires other skills to make you effective.
Trading skills to reduce market costs. Trading skills to increase the number of slots you have.
Remote building, buying and selling skills can help logistically as well, if you're organised.
Understanding market ranges buy orders. Do you need to beat the highest price buy order every time? Nope not really you only have to beat it if the order crosses over your "area" of course if you're happy to buy up stuff from the entire region (You insane person!) then so be it, but generally 2-5 system range is more than enough depending on your area of course. The more stations there are though the more pickups you're going to have to do and the more time spent collecting up your resources.
Understanding who (category of players) buys what and how often.
This will depend on where you are of course. If you're in a market hub then you'll be competing with a lot of other people, although the turn over should be a bit faster on some items. A mission system may not be popular for some modules or ships that mission runners don't buy, but you may get a few buyers just not as often.
How about an empire/low sec system near a war zone.
Ammo, drones, missiles, ships, rigs, modules for pvp even shuttles :D for the hapless pod survivor spamming the random station and needing a quick ship to get back to battle.
Good luck. Manufacturing process is easy, doing it well requires research, planning and possibly a spreadsheet to calculate profit/loss at EVERY stage.
EDIT: If you know the build price of a perfect module and find that there are sellers under this price, do the right thing and re-list as long as you can be certain that the market fees are going to allow for a profit. And that you can afford it :D
-------------------------- Life is about memories the more the better. Eve Online Batch Calculator |
Kormorant
Gallente Oneirocritica Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 12:32:00 -
[9]
You can still make a 50-100% profit on many t1 items (including some ships).
As someone mentioned early - market research helps. Also, stay out of Jita.
Good ideas are local mission hubs and fw hubs (some entry points to nul sec are also good).
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Malmagor
Minmatar Advanced Design and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:03:00 -
[10]
I wouldn't say market research helps. I'd say market research is a must. Market research is more important than Production efficiency 5.
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Qiu Won
Deepfunk9
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: W3370Pi4 Hello 2 words Market Research
This is a huge part for both raw materials and selling of goods.
EVE Online Fanfest 2008 - The Economy
At the end of the video Dr. G states that on average most T1 manufacturers are working for 5% margin ROI. There are places to make more but you need to find them. I would start with highsec near 0.0 jump offs and 0.0 market sites.
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Malmagor
Minmatar Advanced Design and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:32:00 -
[12]
Margin isn't everything either. You have to look at volume as well. If you can make 5% one one product and 3% on a different product but you'll sell twice as much in the same time period, the 3% markup is more profitable as long as you can keep up with the manufacturing.
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Keigari
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:40:00 -
[13]
really some research will allow you to even profit from the t1 market. Sell modules that are in bigger demand in mission areas, you can even make good isk with selling ammo there. For example sell salvagers, missile launchers ect in motsu or poinen or other big mission areas. Same goes for ammo.
And then there are those special opportunities, sometimes there is a crazy move for something. Like the gas cloud harvesters, cashed 2 bil in 1.5 days with those... So t1 production can be very profitable
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Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 16:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Michelle Kaku I've had suggestions to stick to rigs for awhile as those are the best profit, so I have a CCC and CDFP BPO raised at 150 efficiency each.
The perfect ME for CCC is 15 and for CDFP is 20. Raising ME above 15 and 20 respectively for these BPOs is just a waste of time... You will get no benefit from it.
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SgtGoodEnd
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:15:00 -
[15]
0.0 is your best option, ofc the more risky also.
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Maven Deltor
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Posted - 2009.03.15 22:33:00 -
[16]
When you ask for help with manufacturing, you might as well be asking "Can you give me your trade secrets please?" In this profession, there are no helpful tips I can give you without giving you something I could be doing myself. And if you and I are both doing it, then I'm making less money.
What I'm getting at is, asking questions on how to turn a profit by manufacturing could lead to some bad advice, from devious players. As someone else already said, you have to do your own market research. Anything you hear on the forums is heard by everyone else. And if enough people follow that same tip, they will deplete the value. This goes the other way too. Once you find a nice sweet market that doesn't seem to have many people manufacturing stuff, yet still has a decent population, don't go tell a bunch of people about it, unless you want to see your opportunities go away.
You just need to apply your brain. Jita, Rens, etc, all bad places to try and make much profit, since those markets are saturated (there is SOME profit, but not enough value to satisfy every manufacturer.) So look at some other systems. Think about the people you're trying to sell to, what they are using your product for, and where they will need it the most. A good tip (and only one I'm going to give you), look for level 4 agents. Mission runners live in these stations, and need lots and lots of equipment. They are often too lazy to make 4-6 jumps to major trade hubs to replace lost drones, ammo, etc, and will pay a premium if you sell in their station. These same people are often a good resource for your salvage.
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2009.03.15 22:42:00 -
[17]
You could also try to sell at a hub where lots of T2 mods are being sold.
There is a big chance the manufacturers are buying most things locally so they need the t1 mod as well. As they won't be making this themselves, they buy it of the market. They don't care if it's 10k or 20k more expensive when they're making 500k or more profit on it later on.
Just need to find those T2 mods that sell good and for which the amount of T1 mods is low.
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Bartom Dekkar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maven Deltor
(bunch of good advice)...
You just need to apply your brain. Jita, Rens, etc, all bad places to try and make much profit, since those markets are saturated (there is SOME profit, but not enough value to satisfy every manufacturer.)
...(even more good stuff)
One quibble: this part is generally good advice for a manufacturer just starting out, but there are lots of people in Jita for a reason. It is probably more trader and scammer friendly, but even us manufacturers can make quite nice profits there if you just ... (deleted based on Maven's advice )
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maven Deltor This goes the other way too. Once you find a nice sweet market that doesn't seem to have many people manufacturing stuff, yet still has a decent population, don't go tell a bunch of people about it, unless you want to see your opportunities go away.
EXCEPT if you're a trader that never actually manufactures, in which case, if you spot a great deal on some item that has a long manufacture process, you'd better make that as public as possible, since the more they pile up on it, the less the profits will become because of oversaturation, with prices eventually so low that some are actually selling at a loss just to dump the stock and get out... and that's when you come in, purchase a good deal of stock at rock bottom prices, wait a couple of weeks and unload at prices even more inflated as they used to be right before the crash...
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Kat Bandeis
Caldari Virtual Rock Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.16 05:26:00 -
[20]
As others have said, research. Find what sells in your region, manufacture, move the product around, don't stay in any one area, and keep on top of costs of manufacturing and building. KNOW what sells, build it, and sell for decent profits. You'll have good sellers, you'll have dogs (like cruise missiles in my region), and you'll have those surprises that you just can't keep in stock. :) Research.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Michelle Kaku
What am I doing wrong? How can I actually make some cash by manufacturing?
As has already been pointed out, you can't compete with prices at the trade hubs.
Don't buy your raw materials on the market - set up buy orders for what you need and spread them out. It may take a bit of time to get them in and you may have to top a bit of ferrying around to get things in the one place, but that's the best way of doing it short of salvaging yourself.
As for the actual finished product, try selling close to 0.0 space or if you are in a corp that has access, sell in 0.0 and charge an appropriate price.
There are profits there, you just have no know what to make and where to sell it.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:46:00 -
[22]
With unresearched BPOs and Prod Efficiency V you should be able to make 10-20% benefits on 24-hours batchs of light ships (ie frigates, industrials, destros...), ammos. Forget modules or ships bigger than destroyers. These market segments are completely occupied by ME20 BPOs and corporation industrialists... ____________________________________ Fulbert Peon |
Gaius Aemilius
Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation
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Posted - 2009.03.16 12:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Malmagor I wouldn't say market research helps. I'd say market research is a must. Market research is more important than Production efficiency 5.
Malmagor for the thread-win.
Learn how to do proper market research and you'll be set. Fail to learn it and all the PE V in the world won't help you since you could easily start production on an item that sells below mineral cost due to mission-runners selling loot.
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W3370Pi4
Caldari Lords Of Kaos
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Posted - 2009.03.16 12:58:00 -
[24]
for example i will explain you why market research is important The Covert ops cloaking device II price is droping now
because lots of people tough it would be wise to start producing them in large quantities for apocrypha now the price is droping because lots of people are producing and the demand isnt matching the supply _______ Join the "Legit Trading" Channel *Monitored WTB*WTA*WTT*WTS*Contracts*Trade ADs** Scam free channel* |
Dzil
Caldari Apache Research Team
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:42:00 -
[25]
Think of your manufacture as a form of trading. Skills will certainly improve your margins, but ultimately you are trying to find an opportunity to trade your time/skills for someone else's isk.
Trading always comes down to two things - profit margin, and volume. You're making a 3% return, because you're working in a high volume area where the big stakes players are happy with that rate of return, they roll enough manufacturing through to make 3% good. Or, they are making slightly more than 3% with superior skills, or access to better resources.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of items face fierce competition with the reselling of mission loot. Almost any ship module is in this boat. Ammo and the ships themselves are not. Head over to the want ads/sell forum, and see what BPO/BPCs are most commonly sold, these are also the most profitable things to make ;).
The solution for an upstart? Move out to the fringes, and pick something solid that people need (like ammo). Folks will pay a premium for the items they need to not have to travel back to Jita or a major mission hub to get them. The flip side of this is the volume out that way is lower, so most big time industrial players/corps won't be bothered. Find your best balance between volume and profit margin, and have fun:)
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Arminaus
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:48:00 -
[26]
Im hosting a manufacturing profit tool at www.eveindustry.co.cc. Has a vast number of T1 and T2 BPOs. Very usful when working out your mineral costs.
Hope it helps. :-)
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Flios Bror
Amarr Lone Star Joint Venture
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:08:00 -
[27]
Using buy-orders to acquire the salvage to build the CCC does make it look like it lowers the cost of building this item. This is wrong. You have just made a trade-profit. You could have sold the salvage with sell-orders and maybe have made more profit without having to transport the salvage to a suitable manufacturing-station, navigating the industry-screens, and bring the rigs to market.
In short: if it's not worth making the items using materials from sell-orders, it's not worth producing that product at all. [None] |
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