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Kaiidyn
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Posted - 2009.03.15 10:53:00 -
[1]
Hello,
The iskonsale spammers are really annoying.
Loads of people just block them.
But they always seem to be comming back.
And it appears like CCP does nothing about it.
My question is why?
As its soo easy...
How?
Make a 'spamfilter' on the server side of the game.
Simply read a txt file with 'forbidden words' when parsing the chats.
scan it trough a rexeg, if the word exists dont send the message to all online users (that are in that channel) but instead make send a callback to the client that sent the message with something like 'Your message has been blocked.'.
For now there only needs to be one word in that textfile that needs blocking.
 Quote:
Iskonsale.com
Thanks for reading, and tell me what you think,
Kaiidyn.
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Phantastic
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Posted - 2009.03.15 10:59:00 -
[2]
Great idea!
In addition I would suggest further restricting trial accounts by limiting the lines per message, limit on max # of channels you are in and prohibit the use of URL linking.
There might be peeps out there who will say, no more restriction for trial accounts, but when I would join a game which is infested with spammers, I would not be happy either.
Just my 2 cents...
Phantastic
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Lord macattack
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:17:00 -
[3]
But what if you have something else then isk you want to sell... in-game items? suddenly you get that message? wouldnt that be frustrating. If you care about illegal isk sellers you havent done the reseach good enough... you get card info stolen and you get banned from the game. and even if you dont get banned CCP takes the isk away from you that you bought anyway. so rather taking that away, have a message pop up in help chat or any other chat they keep spamming saying that buying isk is illegally and if they want isk, sell GTC's for isk. or something
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Kaiidyn
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:22:00 -
[4]
Thats not the point,
Point is to get rid of the iskonsale spammers,
So a server-sided spamfilter that (for now) only looks at the url www.iskonsale.com and blockes that message.
not everything you try to sell will get blocked.
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Makhar
Independent Miners Guild
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Posted - 2009.03.15 16:44:00 -
[5]
content filters like you describe are too easy to get around, there would be no point. Okay, so they block the words iskonsale.com so the spammers start using iskonsale dot com instead, or i s k o n s a l e . c o m
Far too many different possible permutations to be able to block them all for every isk selling website out there and the GMs have better things to spend their time on.
Just keep blocking the spammers as you see them. Or ignore them completely. Yes they are annoying, but, like macrominers, they will stay for as long as they can make money doing what they do and they will keep making money selling isk for as long as eve remains popular. The moment they stop is the moment you know that eve is close to the end of it's life. Sad, but true :(
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Kaiidyn
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Posted - 2009.03.15 17:18:00 -
[6]
True, but if you disallow them to post the url, it wont be a link anymore, thus, not clickable. as w w w <dot> i s k o n s a l e <dot> c o m is annoying to fix as a link, people wont bother at all going to the site at all.. (unless they are realy desprate).
maybe it wont be fixed permanently, but it sure would save lots of people lots of frustration in chat.
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Callidius
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Posted - 2009.03.15 19:50:00 -
[7]
I have a what I believe foolproof solution to put an end to the ISK seller problem for good.
The solution is player defined filters.
Give players the ability to build their own filters for blocking or, quite importantly, HIDING chat messages.
First an explanation of the message to come:
{} indicates blocks. <XX> indicates how these block may relate to each other. | | is a selectable alternative.
And now for the actual controls!
Action:
{| | Block message}
<OR>
{| | Hide message}
Triggers:
{
{ | | Perform action if message contains ALL of these keywords/expressions: [list of keywords/expressions(an expression may be an URL)] }
<OR>
{ | | Peform action if message contains ANY of these keywords/expressions: [list of keywords/expressions(an expression may be an URL)] }
}
<AND/OR>
{
| | Peform action if message contains a link to any external URL not native to EVE online.
}
<AND/OR>
{
| | Perform action if this keyword/pattern is found in the player's name: [keyword/pattern]
}
It got a little messy, sorry about that, it was not possible to make good indentations. =(
Some more info about hiding messages.
This should be an availible option for the obvious reason of false positives. It will prevent an unknown amount of normal messages from being blocked (i.e not showing up at all, making players refrain from using the system).
Appart from this you should be able to define trusted senders aswell. For example specific players, your buddy list, corp or every-up-to-this-date existing player in EVE online (i.e the date you create the filter).
The filters would form a list with the last added filter overriding previous filters if a conflict occur.
So why is this a good solution? The answer is simple.
1. The ISK seller will have no idea if his message reaches the intended audience or not as each player define his or her unique filter. That will make spamming quite pointless.
2. A human designed, and constantly redesigned, filter will aways beat automated systems if such are in use.
The system should be used for both mail and chat, blocking all ways of access for ISK seller.
What do you think of the idea?
and (to CCP): How soon would such a system be able to be put in use?
The ISK seller are getting increasingly irritating (and numerous it feels like) for each passing day!
Thanks for the reading! =P
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Kaiidyn
Caldari
Nexopia
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Posted - 2009.03.16 00:42:00 -
[8]
Its a really good idea indeed to have this spamfilter system,
Maybe it might be possable to import/export and post them on forums. (like what happens to fittings on battleclinic) so loads of unexperianced users can advantage of these filters aswell.
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Yamato Gasaraki
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Posted - 2009.03.16 00:49:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Yamato Gasaraki on 16/03/2009 00:51:18
Parsing an entered Text only increases Stress on the Servers, and you should see yourself how easy it is to dodge Filters.
Just give the Players some control over this:
If a Player enters the same Text more than 2 Times in a Minute and more than 50% of the Player block him in two Minutes, revoke the Player's Access to the Chat and send the Text to the GM-Squad that's on Shift.
That Player's booted for good if it is an ISK Spamm.
Warning: Your Subscription is running out.
Please buy a new GTC to continue playing on these Boards. |
Kaiidyn
Caldari
Nexopia
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Posted - 2009.03.16 00:51:00 -
[10]
Thats no use, cuz the spamming will remain, at least once per account
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Callidius
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:59:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Parsing an entered Text only increases Stress on the Servers, and you should see yourself how easy it is to dodge Filters.
The interesting thing about my idea is that there is no need to put stress on the server. Each player (i.e client) has it's own set of filters and therefore no load is put on the servers.
An additional beneficial factor that derives from this is that no one, not human nor machine, can break a unique and continuously updated set of filters maintained by a player. Especially not when the sender receives no notification of blocked or hidden messages. 
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:21:00 -
[12]
All I can say is...
Hurray for TinyURL!
---
Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Tucould
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:30:00 -
[13]
I don't think a client-side solution would really be worth it. Any of the 'serious' players just block the spammers, usually only seeing one 'send'. And they're not going to buy isk anyway. Hence, little impact on the profitability of the spammers. Without some way to block them *before* their text hits the channel, I don't think it'd be worth the code. Of course, I have no idea of a solution myself.  But I really think the focus should be on a server-side fix.
--
And they were both naked, [...] and were not ashamed. (Genesis 2:25) |
Kaiidyn
Caldari
Nexopia
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:36:00 -
[14]
Fact is,
Creating loads of accounts is easy for those spammers to do.
As its being done automatticly.
But registering a new domain name is not, and it costs.
I dont think they will bother registering new domains or use tinyurl to keep on spamming.
--
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:54:00 -
[15]
Have you actually seen any of these ISK/Gold selling websites? Or are you just jumping onto the "Hate Spammers" bandwagon?
They are all identical sites. Appearance, interfaces, I'm pretty sure most of the prices are the same too. They just copy the html onto each site.
Places like GoDaddy sell domains, and even give cheaper prices if you buy multiple domains at once. So it's entirely possible that your "iskonsale" merchants could have bought 50 different domains. And they can pay the -yearly- domain costs in the first few ISK/Gold sales.
You're going to find it's harder to silence the spammers than you think. Which is why CCP hasn't just waved a wand and made them go away like you seem to think they could.
---
Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Kaiidyn
Caldari
Nexopia
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Posted - 2009.03.17 09:44:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kaiidyn on 17/03/2009 09:44:45
Still, it isnt to hard to put those 'new' url's in the spamfilter.
If we dont even try to work against them, it would never stop.
--
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Callidius
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tucould
I don't think a client-side solution would really be worth it. Any of the 'serious' players just block the spammers, usually only seeing one 'send'. And they're not going to buy ISK anyway. Hence, little impact on the profitability of the spammers. Without some way to block them *before* their text hits the channel, I don't think it'd be worth the code. Of course, I have no idea of a solution myself. But I really think the focus should be on a server-side fix.
I agree that my solution would not put a dead end the problem with players buying ISK. Some players (i.e beginners and players wanting to buy ISK) may refrain from using any filters. It would however provide the means for putting an end to the annoying spamming of the chat - something that I think we 'serious' would be very grateful of. 
Now again for the server versus client problem. I still hold the opinion that it will be easier to figure out the rules of a server side filter and engineer the messages in such a way that they pass the filter. Not to say breaking these filters would be considered worth the time and effort by some ISK sellers due to the simple reason that everyone is protected by the same filter. If each player's filter is unique there is simply no way to check if your ISK-on-sale message reach it's intended audience or not.
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
All I can say is...
Hurray for TinyURL!
Well you could block or hide the entire message if it contains the following:
an external URL
the expression "tinyurl.com/"
the keyword ISK
Problem solved!
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:20:00 -
[18]
How many times must this debate be had? While I fully-sympathize with the problem, the need to resolve it, etc ...
When people stop buying ISK, the problem will resolve itself. Who is the real problem?
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Kaiidyn II
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Posted - 2009.03.18 22:40:00 -
[19]
People DONT stop buying ISK, because they are ''dumb'' and dont know that its scam or whatever. It wont just go away by not buying it anymore, because these spammers are in almost all bigger-sized mmorpgs, not only here. so their income wont stop.
And, try to confince 300000~500000 people to not buy ISK.
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Pvt Public7
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.18 23:00:00 -
[20]
More effective to make a database crawler to follow large ISK transfers.
Or limit client connects per IP address to something like 5.
---
SWA was here
IAC is a loser |
Callidius
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Posted - 2009.03.21 15:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pvt Public7
More effective to make a database crawler to follow large ISK transfers.
Or limit client connects per IP address to something like 5.
That sound like an excellent idea aswell! (As long as they don't limit the number of unique client connects per unit of time to something <5.)
Maybe a combination of player defined filters and database crawler would work?
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Valegresch
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Posted - 2009.03.22 00:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Valegresch on 22/03/2009 00:49:00
I like the idea,if it'll stop the blasted isk spammers. I swear they are getting not just annoying but rude. Two isk spammers for that website flipped off everyone in help channel a few days ago,once when 5 ISD's were on.
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Yamato Gasaraki
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Posted - 2009.04.17 01:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Callidius
1. A simple way would be to use the ingame block. After X players have blocked the same player a GM is automatically petitioned. If the blocked player appears to be a spammer his IP is blocked permanently or temporarily.
Suggested multiple Times before as I think it's the best Solution.
You can't ban IPs, tho, as it's likely they use dynamic IPs, changing on each log-in.
Blamm the Account, and poof.
Quote:
2. Remove trials from the website for a while and use invites instead. If someone invite a player and he is banned for ISK-spamming, the player who sent the invite is banned aswell.
Nu-uh. People will give away their invites to about anyone who asks, simply to feel cool. banning them for doing it without thinking isn't going to work out.
Warning: Your Subscription is running out.
Please buy a new GTC to continue playing on these Boards. |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.04.17 09:35:00 -
[24]
/signed
I have seen days where the ones you mention reappear like every 10 minutes. Very persistent and very annoying indeed. Always with names made of a random combination of letters. I do not report them, because I think it would be a waste of my time. I just block them out or leave the channel.
So in short it is a very good idea, and if it is given into the hands of the ISD.
A filter will however not be the final answer to the problem. The spammers will try to come up with funny messages, weird inter-punctuation and what not to get around filters.
I still want temporary blocks. Ones that block someone for only 24h. My blocking list is growing every day and it is impossible to control it. It has become a mere log of my blocking "activity". My guess is that it consists of 97% spammers, 2.5% Russian speakers and 0.5% trolls. Those last 3% should not deserve to be among those other 97%, really.
I also want an easier user interface for reporting spammers. Next to the "Block" should be a "Block and Report" function. It shall create a petition with the text line in question, fill out all the other fields of the petition, and only prompt with a confirmation dialogue (the message, "OK", "Cancel", and a warning not to abuse it or else ...).
--
If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
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