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Caldose
Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:50:00 -
[1]
Been toying with the idea of creating a setup for hunting lone sleeper farmers that neutralizes any hope of escape.
[Lachesis, W-space lone BC hunter] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Medium Armor Repairer II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening Warp Scrambler II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge M Core Probe Launcher I Improved Cloaking Device II
Inverted Signal Field Projector I Particle Dispersion Projector I
Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2
Idea here is to catch them with their pants down, tanking sleepers. By dropping core probes to narrow down directional scan results, should be able to filter down the options pretty quickly. Then, while they're not expecting it, get within 40km of them and start pummeling them with the rails and drones.
Puts out about 250dps, takes pretty much anything's targeting range down to < 20km and I wouldn't recommend getting any closer than that...1.1km/s with mwd on, not much of a tank (but probably enough to get you out should things start going sour), etc.
Have to wisely choose your targets here of course, but even a BS could go down against this setup with a few sleepers helping you out
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Dethis
Caldari Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:51:00 -
[2]
Sleepers have a habit of going "hey squishy" then proceeding to ruin your day. --------
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis SIRRIUS.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:54:00 -
[3]
Arazu if you do it.
If by some godforsaken reason they miss your scan probes on their directional scanner, they certainly won't miss your ship appearing on it.
Plus, I don't think at this point anybody found a way to solo Sleepers. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Caldose
Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dethis Sleepers have a habit of going "hey squishy" then proceeding to ruin your day.
Even against possible targets that aren't actively attacking them? I thought that's the whole point of threat...
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Dethis
Caldari Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Caldose
Originally by: Dethis Sleepers have a habit of going "hey squishy" then proceeding to ruin your day.
Even against possible targets that aren't actively attacking them? I thought that's the whole point of threat...
I am 85% sure that they dynamically pick targets regardless of who is shooting etc. I could be wrong as i only blow up people in wormholes and not sleepers. --------
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Caldose
Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dethis
Originally by: Caldose
Originally by: Dethis Sleepers have a habit of going "hey squishy" then proceeding to ruin your day.
Even against possible targets that aren't actively attacking them? I thought that's the whole point of threat...
I am 85% sure that they dynamically pick targets regardless of who is shooting etc. I could be wrong as i only blow up people in wormholes and not sleepers.
Yeah, I agree that they might start shooting you, a little bit...but I doubt you'd suddenly become the primary target on their threat list...
Maybe a few pot-shots because they are programmed to think you're a threat automatically, but definitely not drawing the entire attention of the spawn.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:38:00 -
[7]
Is awful. One MAR II is not a tank. Sleepers will primary you. You will instapop. OR Is awful. A substantial fleet is required to do wormhole space. You will warp in, damp one target. Everyone else will target you and start shooting. You will warp off or instapop.
Might be able to gank things not facing sleepers, but wormholes dump you right next to their counterparts meaning that its easy to run away. So youd have to scan them down when they were taking a break.
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Caldose
Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Is awful. One MAR II is not a tank. Sleepers will primary you. You will instapop.
Never said it was first off, just said it might give you some time to get away. Also, I'm not convinced they will primary you...at the very least, you could run.
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Is awful. A substantial fleet is required to do wormhole space. You will warp in, damp one target. Everyone else will target you and start shooting. You will warp off or instapop.
I specifically said this setup is not designed to take on multiple targets. LONERS ONLY.
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Might be able to gank things not facing sleepers, but wormholes dump you right next to their counterparts meaning that its easy to run away. So youd have to scan them down when they were taking a break.
Again, not the purpose of this setup.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Caldose
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Is awful. One MAR II is not a tank. Sleepers will primary you. You will instapop.
Never said it was first off, just said it might give you some time to get away. Also, I'm not convinced they will primary you...at the very least, you could run.
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Is awful. A substantial fleet is required to do wormhole space. You will warp in, damp one target. Everyone else will target you and start shooting. You will warp off or instapop.
I specifically said this setup is not designed to take on multiple targets. LONERS ONLY.
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Might be able to gank things not facing sleepers, but wormholes dump you right next to their counterparts meaning that its easy to run away. So youd have to scan them down when they were taking a break.
Again, not the purpose of this setup.
They told you that your "purpose" doesn't exist, since you are not able to solo Sleepers. --
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Dasalt Istgut on 16/03/2009 04:49:45 I haven't tried this one personally. Its on my list of things to try on Sisi. Usually I go with a heavier tanked lachesis and do roaming gangs as tackler. That being said my biggest issue with ravens and the like is tank breaking. You're going to have issues with drakes but, well, you're going to have issues with drakes no matter what since the rails setup can't break their passive tank anyway. With that disclaimer at hand behold the neut lachesis (if your drone nav skills aren't high use warriors instead):
[Lachesis, Surprise Neut Lachesis] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler Invulnerability Field II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x3 - Backups
Tactics are to tackle them and kill their drones with your drones (this is why you can't use medium drones). Then get in close and blast them with your blasters and neuts. If you have max fitting skills (Shield upgrades 5, AWU 5), you can swap to a mag stab II. I don't have AWU 5 so I can't, hence the two PDU II's.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.03.16 05:40:00 -
[11]
I had a corpmate die, claimed sleepers were pointing him at 40km. Sorta the range you have to be within to point. I have heard claims that sleepers will switch primaries to even ships that arent attacking them, and from personal experience I can say they aren't bad at primarying weaker tanked ships, which your ships into the category of.
My sleipner had its work cut out for it tanking last time I tried npcing in wormhole space. One volley would take out half the shields, and we were doing the easiest kind of plex.
When I suggest that you will instapop I mean exactly that.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2009.03.16 08:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Caldose
Originally by: Dethis Sleepers have a habit of going "hey squishy" then proceeding to ruin your day.
Even against possible targets that aren't actively attacking them? I thought that's the whole point of threat...
Sleepers REALLY don't like Recons. Apparently they see them as a bigger threat than BCs. HACs also a bigger threat. Personal experience on both. Definitely makes popping plexers a bit more exciting.
Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
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Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2009.03.16 08:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 16/03/2009 08:50:50 Nice idea but as been said Sleepers are smart and will primary you because you're squishy.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.16 09:09:00 -
[14]
There has allready been a topic about someone who attacked a larger group of people in w-space using a falcon, and let the sleepers do the tackling. He got some kills, untill the sleepers decided to switch primary and alpha strike him. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.03.16 09:31:00 -
[15]
It's perfectly possible to solo the weakest Sleeper spawns. I watched, cloaked, in an Arazu, as a corpmate did just that in a Drake. When a single BS spawned I uncloaked and damped the BS. The entire spawn aggro switched instantly to me, so I ran like a girl.
I came back at even longer range, uncloaked and just deployed drones. Again, instant Sleeper aggro.
They really don't like Recons.
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:00:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Morel Nova on 16/03/2009 14:02:17 confirming that you can solo sleepers. I caught a guy in a raven doing just that (he had to warp in and out sometimes though) and there were both battleships and cruisers there (he had very high skills though, think he said something like 43 mil SP when I talked to him). He also managed to get away because I had my gank arazu not the damp one and he neuted my point away from me and ran :(
this was after he killed them though, so I dont know if they would have primaried me instead.
also, lachesis is **** outside "disposable heavy tackler" role. I like that its red and I want it to be useful, but it just isnt. an arazu will do everything it does better. Put in space whales!
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Shigsy
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:08:00 -
[17]
caught a paladin soloing them yesterday.
Whoever said they're not soloable is an idiot
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Obsidian Dagger
Weak and Fee-bile
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:16:00 -
[18]
Sleepers don't seem to have any set oder of attack, other than to focus fire on closest/weakest.
Myself and a couple corpies were out in WH space last night. I had my refitted lvl3 mission hurry (salvager and a core probe replacing my usual two missile launchers) - which CAN solo the small 2 or 3 cruiser sleeper spawns. However this group was two BS's and four cruisers. My corpies were in Hurries too, but are newer chars, and dont have great tank skills. Less firepower too, for the same reason. So, I had biggest tank, shortest range to the sleepers, and biggest volley/dps. And the sleepers, after chewing on my perma armor tank for a while, turned, IGNORED me, and splatted one corpie and pushed the other into hull before he got away. Then turned back to me. I JUST had time to lift the kit from the destroyed Hurry, before they suddenly started nos'ing. (HAD been perma running two armor reppers, but suddenly, my cap went away!) So, discretion being the better part and all that (Gallente after all...) I ran away.
TL:DR - Sleepers LIKE squishies, even if there is a bigger threat in optimal range of them.
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:18:00 -
[19]
I myself have soloed the easier sleeper spawns in a vagabond. First day playing since the expansion (yesterday), was just checking out wormholes (both high sec and low sec, no 0.0), and found them somewhat easy. Sure, I had to warp out a few times, but mainly because of the respawns - the last wave, no matter how many sleepers, was usually easy. The tactic here was to spread them around, I could easily break a big spawn into groups of 2-3 ships due to varying speeds.
I suspect someone in a similar ship with a real tank could take them with ease.
Anyway, have you actually tried hunting people with core probes? Hasn't worked too well for me, but I guess it's just bad luck or lack of experience.
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shigsy
Whoever said they're not soloable is an idiot
Soloing W-space is like trying to cut your own head off with a chainsaw. You can, technically, do it. But who ever does it is nominating for Eve-Darwin Award. Because
Originally by: Shigsy caught a paladin soloing them yesterday.
Originally by: Morel Nova I caught a guy in a raven doing just that
... and numerous other examples.
Meaning, that for a player, who is not willing to commit a suicide, it is impossible to solo W-space complexes. He will die, probably not to sleepers, but he will die nonetheless.
And as for "if he misses you probes guy" - you don't really need the probes to engage in W-space. Onboard scanner can be used to :) So they will never now that you are there until you uncloak and point them. ------------------------------------------ "Russian is an unusual language if you're not used to it. It is like speaking to angry aliens from the planet of Murder or something" Nick Breckon |
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Delichon
And as for "if he misses you probes guy" - you don't really need the probes to engage in W-space. Onboard scanner can be used to :) So they will never now that you are there until you uncloak and point them.
thats how i got my guy. well, except he got away, proving its not complete suicide (I popped his prober alt that was salvaging though.. go go arazu dual point!)
I need to check out these sleeper aggro mechanics more because it seems to me like going solo in a pilgrim with one neut swapped for a prober might be fun.
Put in space whales!
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:04:00 -
[22]
1. Lachesis gets an awesome missile RoF bonus -- use missiles instead. And you can switch out ammo types to hit their weakness. 2. Lachesis = no cov ops cloak = uncloak and wait to target = target warps away = fail 3. Ok, so you probe someone out and you catch them in a site with sleepers. You engage and orbit them and hit the MWD to orbit -- but oh noes, your're in DEADSPACE so your MWD won't work. Use an AB.
Overall a poorly though out fitting and tactic. Reevaluate with an Arazu (which is more 'hybrid gun friendly' with a covops cloak).
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah 1. Lachesis gets an awesome missile RoF bonus -- use missiles instead. And you can switch out ammo types to hit their weakness. 2. Lachesis = no cov ops cloak = uncloak and wait to target = target warps away = fail 3. Ok, so you probe someone out and you catch them in a site with sleepers. You engage and orbit them and hit the MWD to orbit -- but oh noes, your're in DEADSPACE so your MWD won't work. Use an AB.
Overall a poorly though out fitting and tactic. Reevaluate with an Arazu (which is more 'hybrid gun friendly' with a covops cloak).
While the OP is complete fail, so are you. w-space isn't deadspace, even in the complexes. MWDs work just fine. The cloak (obviously) is just for hiding while you probe stuff out. Even with the lock speed penalty, I'm sure he could nab a BS with a scan res of 225mm+.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
While the OP is complete fail, so are you. w-space isn't deadspace, even in the complexes. MWDs work just fine.
So my Eos couldn't MWD in a multi room plex in w-space because.......
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah 1. Lachesis gets an awesome missile RoF bonus -- use missiles instead. And you can switch out ammo types to hit their weakness. 2. Lachesis = no cov ops cloak = uncloak and wait to target = target warps away = fail 3. Ok, so you probe someone out and you catch them in a site with sleepers. You engage and orbit them and hit the MWD to orbit -- but oh noes, your're in DEADSPACE so your MWD won't work. Use an AB.
Overall a poorly though out fitting and tactic. Reevaluate with an Arazu (which is more 'hybrid gun friendly' with a covops cloak).
While the OP is complete fail, so are you. w-space isn't deadspace, even in the complexes. MWDs work just fine. The cloak (obviously) is just for hiding while you probe stuff out. Even with the lock speed penalty, I'm sure he could nab a BS with a scan res of 225mm+.
Some stars do make the entire system deadspace-ish though, kinda.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
While the OP is complete fail, so are you. w-space isn't deadspace, even in the complexes. MWDs work just fine.
So my Eos couldn't MWD in a multi room plex in w-space because.......
Because you were in a " multi room plex"... --
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/03/2009 18:14:34 Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/03/2009 18:12:53
Originally by: Caldose
Yeah, I agree that they might start shooting you, a little bit...but I doubt you'd suddenly become the primary target on their threat list...
Maybe a few pot-shots because they are programmed to think you're a threat automatically, but definitely not drawing the entire attention of the spawn.
I'd not rely on that too much actually.
Depends on the ship you are in, if you try to drop a recon or HAC on a couple of t1 BSs to try and tackle, sleepers will primary you, kill you, and then go on bashing up the bears.
If you are in a ship considered a major threat, they shoot you, if you drop in HP significantly they'll stay on you and finish the job.
Edit: best way for wormhole piracy is imo to bring a cov ops in, scan all exit wormholes and bubble them up.
Then wait for the bears to make a move, or ransom them for safe passage, works best if they happen to have no prober in system, or you are able to kill their cov ops.
Edit2: having tacklers at random planets is nice btw, lots of PvEers tend to randomly warp to them if they took too much damage in the sites.
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Bethulsunamen
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
While the OP is complete fail, so are you. w-space isn't deadspace, even in the complexes. MWDs work just fine.
So my Eos couldn't MWD in a multi room plex in w-space because.......
Why do i, as a noob, have to tell long-time players like you, how the game works? If you use an acceleration gate (as in multi-room plexes), thats deadspace. If you just warp to Sleeper sites, thats not deadspace, which most sites in WH-space isnt.
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