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Rhagath	Posted - 2009.03.16 14:28:00 - [1] Hi, I've only been playing a few days and I play a Minmatar. The thing is, I kind of like the mining/manufacturing aspects of this game and would like to pursue them. However, all the guides I see focus on Caldari.Am I making a mistake here by beeing Minmatar?
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.16 14:40:00 - [2] If you made your character after March 10 - feel free to ignore any focus on specific race in guides. All newbies are now made equal. If a guide mentions a race-specific ship, you can feel free to substitute with your races equivalent - Osprey becomes Scythe and Bantam becomes Probe. Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Rhagath	Posted - 2009.03.16 14:44:00 - [3] Ok, thanks :) I indeed made the char after the 10th so I will stick with this one then.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.03.16 14:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Rhagath Am I making a mistake here by beeing Minmatar? No, Caldari way is the easy one, but Minmatars aren't much worse. They got little worse mining cruiser (which can be offset by going straight to mining barge) but much better (practically the best) industrial.
Haruka Watanabe	Posted - 2009.03.16 15:19:00 - [5] Minmatar the best industrial? Not a chance. Iteron V ftw. Democratic governance leads to large cargo bays.
Tkar vonBiggendorf Gallente Snake Eyes Inc	Posted - 2009.03.16 16:26:00 - [6] Edited by: Tkar vonBiggendorf on 16/03/2009 16:30:48 Gallente Iteron V is the highest capacity industrial once you train up to racial Industrial 5. Minmatar is best if you train to 4, and Amarr at 3 and below. Then, once you get into Transport ships, the Gallente are no longer top dogs for capacity. If you like one race over the others for background story and ship design, its not going to hamper your mining efforts in the least. You'll wind up flying ORE mining barges and exhumers soon enough anyway. I stuck with Gallente ships at the start of my mining career, using the Navitas and the Vexor (which gets a mining drone bonus instead of a mining laser bonus) -- which prompted me to train more drone skills earlier, which turned out to be a good thing. You don't have to follow guides to the letter. Take it as a suggestion and have fun playing. Halada's guide is a great resource, even if you shun the parts about getting into an Osprey. I promise nothingÖ. --CCP Prism X
Tanjin Luk Slag Industries	Posted - 2009.03.16 16:46:00 - [7] I'm recently new and chose Minmatar as well (Love the look of the ships and their backstory). But I too am also a miner. By no means am I an expert, but I have had guildies talk me through things lately as well as combining learnings from Halada's mining guide. But let me state one thing, I do not want to train another race's ships at this time (and quite possibly ever)... I am Minmatar for life! SO based on that I started mining in a Burst frigate... but then switched over to the Probe frigate, with 2 Cargo Expander I installed I get 530 m3 of hold space... thats a decent amount to start doing runs to and from a station. Recently I installed 2 Miner IIs on it and it goes a bit fast which is nice... but honestly I will be flying that untill I have my mining barge skills up so I can hop into a retriever or something... nothing in between (minmatar wise) has that much better of a cargo hold for that cheap a price as a Probe. But that's just me. If you don't mind making runs back and forth every 5 minutes then its a good start at least.
Rhagath	Posted - 2009.03.16 16:59:00 - [8] I'm using a Probe now, but training for Scythe. Also I mine and haul to a station nearby and then I pick up my wraith for transport to where the price is best :)
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.03.16 17:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Haruka Watanabe Minmatar the best industrial? Not a chance. Iteron V ftw. Democratic governance leads to George Bush being elected president. Fixed that for you. . . but honestly with atresp the best race is the one you will have fun playing **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.03.16 18:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Haruka Watanabe Minmatar the best industrial? Not a chance. Iteron V ftw. When you get to industrial 5, you're like 1 hour from Transport ship or 2-3 hours from freighter. Then Itty 5 becomes irrelevant .
Haruka Watanabe	Posted - 2009.03.16 19:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Mona X Originally by: Haruka Watanabe Minmatar the best industrial? Not a chance. Iteron V ftw. When you get to industrial 5, you're like 1 hour from Transport ship or 2-3 hours from freighter. Then Itty 5 becomes irrelevant . irrelevant? Hardly 877 million for a freighter or 52 million for a transport (that has a smaller cargo hold than the Iteron V) is a big difference from the ~800k for an Iteron V. The extra cargo on the Iteron V will decrease your hauling time and make you more money.
Tkar vonBiggendorf Gallente Snake Eyes Inc	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:50:00 - [12] Edited by: Tkar vonBiggendorf on 16/03/2009 20:55:28 Originally by: Mona X When you get to industrial 5, you're like 1 hour from Transport ship or 2-3 hours from freighter. Then Itty 5 becomes irrelevant . Not quite. Transports have a prerequisite of Industry V (different skill than the racial Industrial) as well. Some pre-Apocrypha characters came pre-rolled with that skill at 5, otherwise you have to train this up too. Transports are well worth it, though -- once you have the ISK to afford them. An Occator can hold 35km3 compared to an Iteron V's 38km3, can fit a MicroWarpDrive, tank something larger than a paper cut when it does get shot at, and has a built-in warp core strength of +2. Mastodon is the Minmatar equivalent of the Occator. I promise nothingÖ. --CCP Prism X
Celia Therone	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Rhagath I'm using a Probe now, but training for Scythe. Also I mine and haul to a station nearby and then I pick up my wraith for transport to where the price is best :) Out of curiosity, what sort of isk/hour are you looking at?
Rhagath	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Celia Therone Originally by: Rhagath I'm using a Probe now, but training for Scythe. Also I mine and haul to a station nearby and then I pick up my wraith for transport to where the price is best :) Out of curiosity, what sort of isk/hour are you looking at? Heh not really much ;) I have been playing for 3-4 days and have netted about 10 million total. Its not too bad, i can support myself with new stuff all the time until i get to the bigger ships :)
Seradhin	Posted - 2009.03.16 23:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Tanjin Luk But let me state one thing, I do not want to train another race's ships at this time (and quite possibly ever)... I am Minmatar for life! Nice to see someone planning on sticking with a single race, seems like everyone crosstrains to FOTM these days.
AusTerror	Posted - 2009.03.17 00:57:00 - [16] I started Minmatar and have only trained ORE and Minmatar ships. Basically all I do it mine. So you won't have any trouble if you stick to Minmatar.
Barkel Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.17 04:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Mona X No, Caldari way is the easy one, but Minmatars aren't much worse. They got little worse mining cruiser (which can be offset by going straight to mining barge) but much better (practically the best) industrial. I thought the mining yields of the scythe and osprey were identical. The Osprey can fit two missile launchers to the scythes one but that is just about the only significant difference I can think of.
Patri Andari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2009.03.17 07:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Barkel Originally by: Mona X No, Caldari way is the easy one, but Minmatars aren't much worse. They got little worse mining cruiser (which can be offset by going straight to mining barge) but much better (practically the best) industrial. I thought the mining yields of the scythe and osprey were identical. The Osprey can fit two missile launchers to the scythes one but that is just about the only significant difference I can think of. CPU Patri A fool usually thinks he is a genius
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.03.17 10:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Haruka Watanabe 877 million for a freighter or 52 million for a transport (that has a smaller cargo hold than the Iteron V) is a big difference from the ~800k for an Iteron V. The extra cargo on the Iteron V will decrease your hauling time and make you more money. Yeah, but to make it bigger you need rigs which costs 30M per piece. And suddenly it's not so big diffrence. Originally by: Tkar vonBiggendorf Not quite. Transports have a prerequisite of Industry V (different skill than the racial Industrial) as well. Some pre-Apocrypha characters came pre-rolled with that skill at 5, otherwise you have to train this up too. We're in thread with "mining" in topic and gues what: mining barges have same prerequisite. He'll be flying retriever earlier. Originally by: Tkar vonBiggendorf Transports are well worth it, though -- once you have the ISK to afford them. An Occator can hold 35km3 compared to an Iteron V's 38km3, can fit a MicroWarpDrive, tank something larger than a paper cut when it does get shot at, and has a built-in warp core strength of +2. Mastodon is the Minmatar equivalent of the Occator. BTW, I forgot (again) about Orca. Bigger than industrials and transports, cheaper than freighter and for miner needs less skilling than all of them (itty 5, transports and freighters)
Led Floyd	Posted - 2009.03.17 11:39:00 - [20] Hey Rhagath, read this http://www.lsjv-eve.com/completeminersguide_v2.2.pdf this will help alot.As far as the industrial ship argument floating around.The Mammoth is the largest industrial you can achieve in the shortest amount of time.Hence why I have one.Altho if you want to spend the extra 18-20 days (according to your attributes) go for the Iteron V.
Rhagath	Posted - 2009.03.17 13:02:00 - [21] Thanks for the link :) I will be reading that for sure. I don't think I will cross train though so looks like it will be a Mammoth.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.03.17 14:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Mona X on 17/03/2009 14:26:44 2.2 is obsolete. Recently Halada released version 3.0.
Versipellis	Posted - 2009.03.23 11:05:00 - [23] right now i m caldari achura.. i created my character for combat purposes .. but i have enough base skills to be able to switch to mining.. now i liked mining and refining so i' ll stay that way to earn ISK.. tho i have the badger MI for now.. and i really don't fancy that ship.. do u think it's worth training Minmatar Industrial IV for their ind. ship? or is it a waste of time for not a big difference of ships and a bad investment? or maybe i'll buy an osprey soon and stay in that one till retriever.. but minmatar industrials really messing with my brain these days..
Cassijeil Mithkar	Posted - 2009.03.23 11:35:00 - [24] Edited by: Cassijeil Mithkar on 23/03/2009 11:39:11 Rhagath, what alot of players have already said is true...if you will be training to use Barges, Exhumers, Transports, and Freighters, then which race you choose matters very little. Even while you are still in a mining Frig or a Mining Cruiser the real limitations is how you fit and fly your ship more than anything else. An Osprey is technically better overall than a Scythe, but if you are more comfortable flying a Scythe, then why fly another mining Cruiser? It all comes down to what ships and weapons/defensive systems you choose to train for overall. Training for Core Competency and Prospector Certificates matter more overall than whether you choose to fly Minmatar or Caldari for a Mining frig or Cruiser. These Certificates will also help you get the most out of the Ore Mining ships and Tech 2 Transports and Freighters. All professional Miners are first and foremost Pilots...I suggest training to be the best trained Pilot overall as well as training to be the best Miner you can be....then all the differences in ships and their individual bonuses will be almost irrelevant. (btw, although I am new [forgot to switch character before posting], I have been playing since before the Exodus Expansion which came in late 2004. Even back then I choose to mine in my Thorax with my Gallente main character instead of training for Osprey. After spending thousands of hours mining with a Thorax I still have no regrets for my choice. Fly what you are comfortable in and fly what Race of ships you believe in.)
Ikserak tai	Posted - 2009.03.23 15:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Versipellis right now i m caldari achura.. i created my character for combat purposes .. but i have enough base skills to be able to switch to mining.. now i liked mining and refining so i' ll stay that way to earn ISK.. tho i have the badger MI for now.. and i really don't fancy that ship.. do u think it's worth training Minmatar Industrial IV for their ind. ship? or is it a waste of time for not a big difference of ships and a bad investment? or maybe i'll buy an osprey soon and stay in that one till retriever.. but minmatar industrials really messing with my brain these days.. You'll enjoy the Mammoth, I don't regret training to Minmatar Industrial IV a bit. In a fit a extravagance, I fitted 3 Cargohold Optimizaton I's, now have 27k capacity and the ability to carry 9 GSC's, giving me an additional 8100m3. Even the basic Mammoth with Cargohold Expander II's will be better than the Badger II, and doesn't look like a circus wagon. YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
Versipellis	Posted - 2009.03.24 08:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Ikserak tai Even the basic Mammoth with Cargohold Expander II's will be better than the Badger II, and doesn't look like a circus wagon. haha indeed.. thanks alot.. that made up my mind.. and god badger looks sooooo boring anyway..

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