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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:16:00 -
[1]
I mean, seriously, the price Cadmium sells nowadays is almost reaching 6k (Cobalt is at rock bottom, but 1 Cobalt + 1 Cadmium sells for roughly 6k).
You need 100 Cobalt and 100 Cadmium to react into 200 Crystallite Alloy, so the material cost alone is nearly 3k per unit of Crystallite Alloy, plus the fuel cost for the reactor, so you'd have to sell Crystallite Alloy at over 3200 ISK just to break even, let alone make a profit.
Guess at how much Crystallite Alloy sells for ? Barely above 2k.
So by reacting it, you lose one third of the material value, AND you lose all the fuel costs.
I could even understand it if Crystallite Alloy was insanely EASIER to move than the Cobalt and Cadmium, but guess what, it's 0.4m^3 for Cobalt and Cadmium, but 1.0m^3 for Crystallite Alloy, so you're basically turning 80m^3 of materials into 200m^3 of materials, so 2.5 times harder to move.
The issue is that Cadmium price has steadily climbed ever since "alchemy" was possible, and was guaranteed to climb even higher as soon as the POS exploit thing was made public (which sent Dysprosium back way up), so it's not something recent, it's been MANY MONTHS since this has been the issue.
Who the hell could be so careless or downright stupid to NOT notice the fact they have been reacting at a HUGE loss for nearly half a year ?!?
And like I said, I can see absolutely no excuse as to why they should react this, as the unreacted materials are much easier to move, and sell for more than the final reaction product.
Anybody got any ideas what's really going on ?
I mean, I can understand a couple of weeks, a month, maybe TWO months of this... but something that's going on for half a year ?
There's got to be something I'm missing here besides the obvious negligence of people who react stuff... right ?
So... any idea ?
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Triladir
Gallente
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:23:00 -
[2]
For me - I've just liquidated some of my reaction poses, and still have 70k of it from when times were good... It can either sit round gathering dust or I can sell it for what ever I can get for it...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:26:00 -
[3]
So you're telling me you honestly waited nearly half a year to check if a reaction makes no profit (or in this case, a loss) and liquidate it ?
While you were operating the POSes in question and selling their reaction output on a (most likely) weekly basis ?
Seriously ?
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Kokob
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Posted - 2009.03.17 01:45:00 -
[4]
I personally switched my cadmium to an alchemy reaction with mercury long ago. I've been buying the cheap crystallite alloy and using that for making crystalline carbonide. So shhh don't let people know its cheap.
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Triladir
Gallente
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.03.17 04:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Triladir on 17/03/2009 04:17:36
 Quote:
So you're telling me you honestly waited nearly half a year to check if a reaction makes no profit (or in this case, a loss) and liquidate it ?
While you were operating the POSes in question and selling their reaction output on a (most likely) weekly basis ?
Seriously ?
"from when times were good..." - That was before Alchemy and Ferrogate... It's been sitting around in hanger's for 6 months, occasionally getting turned into Crystallite Carbonide... All my cadmium is getting reacted these days into things that pay much better...
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.17 05:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 17/03/2009 05:03:53
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
you keep forgeting this is the same game where people argue with a straight face that the minerals they mine are free.
which explains the odditys of Ice and Veldspar prices.
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Xia Kairui
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akita T
Anybody got any ideas what's really going on ?
I used to run a Cryst Alloy reaction POS for months to create Crystalline Carbonide, but took it down over a year ago since I grew bored at refueling and prices then declined so much for it to be not worth anything. I still have a sizeable stockpile of the end products and intermediates but have been too lazy to haul them out of low sec yet - at first I thought the price would rise again, and when it didn't I decided not to bother.
*shrugs* Can't say what's the case for others, but maybe someone is in a similar situation and needs the cash now.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.03.17 12:14:00 -
[8]
The simplest answer is that you can't un-react materials ;)
I imagine a ton of people are running 1 simple and 1 complex reactor and selling the excess simple reaction while flogging the advanced material for whatever they can get. Intermediates are often fairly hard to flog and frequently sell for less than the more flexible raw materials or marketable advanced materials.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:29:00 -
[9]
Well, yeah, I get the whole "leisurely sell it whenever" thing, but still... damn.
To think people still have sizeable portions stockpiled after half a year or even an entire year... ouch.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Sigras
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, yeah, I get the whole "leisurely sell it whenever" thing, but still... damn.
To think people still have sizeable portions stockpiled after half a year or even an entire year... ouch.
i couldnt agree more, and i see you are as smart as i am; just be thankful that there are the *cough* other *cough* people playing the game who allow us to make a better profit margin.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, yeah, I get the whole "leisurely sell it whenever" thing, but still... damn.
To think people still have sizeable portions stockpiled after half a year or even an entire year... ouch.
Actualy I can see it
think about your own supply chain
Im no where near full scale production but I already have ~ 20m in outstandnig orders + ~60m at diferent stations that have not been picked up yet + ~330m in current core stockpile. My current short term assumption is that I will burn off 30 m a week in production so I have currently a 13 week supply that im looking at. now lets say something changes and I end up only needing 10 m a week. suddenly my stockpile goes from lasting 3 months to 9 months.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:21:00 -
[12]
Well, I'm much more of a trader rather than an industrialist, and a highsec dweller not a lowsec/0.0 one, so basically I was just looking for something I might have missed.
Guess I simply underestimated the overall level of... umm, stuff.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Xarkon
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:24:00 -
[13]
They're doing it to stress test the hardware on the database server?
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Tumak Jit
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:49:00 -
[14]
If I just bought up large quantities of the stuff and was hoping it would rise in price, I too would come to the fourms and yell that the sky was falling. All producers of this should keep producing! The price will rise and you will start making more profit soon! 
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.18 05:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 18/03/2009 05:20:09
Originally by: Akita T
Well, I'm much more of a trader rather than an industrialist, and a highsec dweller not a lowsec/0.0 one, so basically I was just looking for something I might have missed.
Guess I simply underestimated the overall level of... umm, stuff.
Well thats easy enough to do
bascialy what I think happend was people originaly planed on running multiple POSs for the reactions even if they produced more than what they could resonalby use.
price imploded, and due to them setting up buys based on there orginal assumption of running 1-2 reactors to supply their production and 4+ sets to sell they find themselves sitting on only needing one rector setup but with 2-3 months of stockpile for the half dozen or so reactions that they now will not set up. the net result is finding themselves with a year+ stockpile of materials thats bascialy rotting.
Bascialy this is no longer a case of "what I mine is free"
Its now a case of shesh that was a waste of time, might as well write off the cost so the ISK cost (mentaly) becomes 0.
That and it may also be a case like one I know of where the towers being used to suport sov and the moons crap so you run the tower doing SOMETHING since its already there and you have to supply it anyway.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.18 05:54:00 -
[16]
Too bad you can't unreact materials, eh ? 
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.31 10:54:00 -
[17]
I was just looking at the Forge market the other day and I remembered this thread
Don't know if it was my fault or something else that suddendly made people wiser, but the effects are (at least in Jita) surprisingly good.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.06 20:53:00 -
[18]
*sigh*
I see time doesn't fix this at all...
Cadmium went down to around 6500 after the alchemy craze calmed down, so the breakeven is somewhere around 3500 right now _before_ fuel, more like 4k+ after... but for how much does it sell ?
Right, for 2600.
*groan*
Seriously, do people really enjoy losing money ?
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
zzbooks
Fighting Cats
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Posted - 2009.05.07 08:41:00 -
[19]
Perhaps they are using an exploit
But yes, using the same reactor and same cadmium they would earn far more doing alchemy
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 07/05/2009 10:19:43
Quote:
you keep forgeting this is the same game where people argue with a straight face that the minerals they mine are free
Also, he keeps forgetting ours is the sentient race who manage to self destroy their only planet in the name of some green pieces of paper, and where millions hailed and sworn faith to monsters like (lol censorship) <put here name of a WW2 German dictator> and the other opposite "ideologies" counterparts.
Can't think not to find the same idiots in a game tbh.
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Lost Kitten
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Posted - 2009.05.08 15:06:00 -
[21]
There are also a number of moons that react moon mats in an attempt to defray costs, not to break even. In 0.0 POS towers have more use than just mining minerals. If you are putting up towers to ensure a sov claim, it doesn't hurt to do a little moon mining on the side if that will reduce the total cost of maintenance. POS towers aren't meant to pull in more ISK than they cost in all cases.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.08 15:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lost Kitten
There are also a number of moons that react moon mats in an attempt to defray costs, not to break even. In 0.0 POS towers have more use than just mining minerals. If you are putting up towers to ensure a sov claim, it doesn't hurt to do a little moon mining on the side if that will reduce the total cost of maintenance. POS towers aren't meant to pull in more ISK than they cost in all cases.
So how does DECREASING the value of the stuff you mine make any sense ?
The reacted stuff costs less than the RAW MATERIALS, even if you ignore the fuel cost altogether.
The reacted stuff is also HARDER to move than the raw materials.
That was the whole point - it makes no sense to react.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Caeli Maren
Gallente
Dark Canyon Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.08 15:54:00 -
[23]
I 100% agree with Akita T here. I've been watching the Crystallite Alloy market for months now, having used to react Crystalline Carbonite. Several months ago, there was a spike in price up to around 3600, probably due to a manipulation. It dropped back from there relatively quickly. There must be lots of people with sizable stockpiles of this stuff.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.05.08 17:51:00 -
[24]
Is it because the input materials were free because they moon mined them ??
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Jainia Soltella
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Posted - 2009.05.08 18:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dav Varan
Is it because the input materials were free because they moon mined them ??
You have a free POS with free mods that doesn't require fuel, doesn't require time to maintain, and instantly sells to the market so you don't have to haul stuff around? Where can I get one?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.08 20:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dav Varan
Is it because the input materials were free because they moon mined them ??
Even if the materials were so-called "free", and even if the fuel was "free" too (yeah, right) and so on and so forth, would you rather:
a) sell 100x Cadmium at 6k (BUY order price) or 6.8k (sell order price) plus 100x Cobalt at around 130 a piece, for a grand total of 613k-693k ISK
OR
b) keep a reactor busy reacting Cadmium with Cobalt obtaining something that's LARGER in volume and harder to move, then sell 200x Crystallite Alloy at 2.1k (BUY order price) or 2.5k (SELL order price) for a grand total of 420k-500k ISK ?
And remember, that's with "FREE" fuel and "FREE" POS structures and "FREE" shipping.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
AC Resonance
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.09 10:57:00 -
[27]
Sometimes I just mine minerals since there free and all and sell them to whoever.
mmm carebear tears.
The level of frustration in this thread is high. Yum. I'm guessing something on the market isn't going Akita T's way, you know what solves that everytime? Yup, Whining on the forum.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: AC Resonance
The level of frustration in this thread is high. Yum. I'm guessing something on the market isn't going Akita T's way, you know what solves that everytime? Yup, Whining on the forum.
...... continues overleaf. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2009 12:33:35
Originally by: AC Resonance
I'm guessing something on the market isn't going Akita T's way, you know what solves that everytime? Yup, Whining on the forum.
Nah, I'm just making truckloads of ISK on related markets, but couldn't help notice just how much ISK other people willingly throw out the window whenever I lay eyes on some of these "gems" of failure-to-do-the-math.
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
ah the laughs i had at her base price theory
It's not a "theory", it's the sucky way CCP has decided to determine insurance levels, and never changed it since they put it in place.
Also, the way mining doesn't work but actually should.
Quote:
Has she finally accepted that Trit @ 4 ISK per unit is not game breaking yet?
Depends how you define "game breaking".
If you define it to mean "everybody will quit playing", of course not.
Hell, we could reach the point where mining Veldspar will bring you about the same level of income as mining some of "the ABCs", and there Trit prices will stop rising while the highend basket prices stop falling.
But if you define it as "why the hell is lowsec ore worth less than Veldspar, and why is the most valuable ore in the game barely worth a couple times more than Veldspar", then yeah, IT IS game breaking.
Why is it game-breaking ? Because it makes lowsec and 0.0 lack enough incentive for more and more people to go there. Why ever bother leaving highsec ? Just so you can waste ISK on PVP ? Well, that's what alts are for, right ?
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
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