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128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:59:00 -
[1]
Ive decided to open this thread here (finally some use for this forum) as I am one of the people impacted by the recent change in probing mechanics.
I FC alot. I like to do it and I've addopted my own style. In alot of the cases I run 2 accounts of which one is a fully maxed out covert ops pilot. I've found in the past this gave me a huge advantage and we scored countles kills/won battles by having good warp in points/eyes on enemy.
However.....
In the past I could scan down an individual after entering system in under 40 seconds (depending on how large the system was and if I had any idea where about he was) and get a warp in on 0. Once I had the system covered with Fathoms I'd be able to keep getting results every 28 seconds or so..
BUT NOW... im lost... I haven't had too much time to figure things out as my corp has been going through a big change (joined IRC just now etc) but what I have noticed is that the new probing in my opinion leans much more towards exploration than towards PVP (at least thats my impression.. I could be wrong). Did i waste those 4.5 mil SP? Or is there something I am missing or am I simply doing something wrong?
Anyone got any ideas? Please post them in here. Discuss, Ill be doing some research myself and posting my findings in this thread the coming days/weeks.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 17/03/2009 19:47:46
Covert ops alts are of limited use in PVP now imo (which is a good thing).
You'll definitely want a force recon (Rapier/Arazu preferably) do the probing, and have a dedicated scout pilot doing it rather than dualboxing, as it requires quite some attention.
Skillpoints arent wasted at all, since if you arent getting the covops bonus that little bit extra strength is worth a ton imo.
Edit: you should be prepared to spend a week or so getting used to the new system if you intend to be good at it though, just spamming probes and hitting analyze now and then doesnt cut it anymore.
Edit2: there is a difference in 'offensive' and 'defensive' probing now as far as pvp is concerned, and it is much easier to be setup for doing the defensive (also a good thing imo).
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Marketeer Dazel
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Posted - 2009.03.18 04:19:00 -
[3]
The new expansion has made exploration probing much easier and PvP ship probing very difficult. I think they went a little too far with the change. Granted, being able to probe out ships anywhere in a system in 40 seconds with little effort was a tad too quick. But now it takes at least a couple of minutes of concentration moving and re-sizing widgets to find ships as quick as possible. This means a person that doesn't want to be found is virtually impossible to find. The only real thing you will find is people that are AFK.
In CCP's Dev blog on scanning they said they realized the system was not final in regard to PvP ship scanning. The only issue is it could take them a very, very long time in implementing some tweak to make ship scanning quicker. So for now, if you don't explore or you don't have a need for finding wormholes, then yes those scanning skills are basically worthless. Ironically, I do like the new "engaging" scanning system better. I would suggest they make ship signatures much stronger and easier to find then they currently are. Eliminate a good step or two of probe sphere moving/resizing so that a skilled prober can get a warp-able ship hit in around one minute. You don't want it to be too fast nor too slow (as it currently is). I feel that would be a decent balance.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.03.18 07:30:00 -
[4]
So far I've probed out alot of mission runners pretty easily, and probing for plex's actually accidently landed me a T2 industrial kill yesterday. Finding pvp targets has been a bit tougher.
if you know by directional scans what your targets are close to (i.e. a pounce spot of a gate) You can get a result within about 40 seconds of concentrated probinig (but that's 40 seconds you're not dedicating to being alert of the fleets surroundings) For harder probing, that takes alot more work and requires a pilot to be completely dedicated. Still very much possible to find a fleet sitting in space, but anything that's moving around alot/not in a mission/afk in SS is tricky to say the least. Buff pvp probing imo
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:25:00 -
[5]
Probing mission runners is now hilariously easy.
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128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.18 12:12:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Gypsio III
Probing mission runners is now hilariously easy.
Yes, that can be, but that is only a "niche" of the probing business.
What concerns me more personally is probing in small gangwarfare, fleet ops, logofskis with aggro etc.
Even with max skills it requires alot of effort and if a target is cycling spots its almost impossible to find him. Furthermore, getting a spot on somebody's safespots and having somebody waiting there for him is also gone then...
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.19 08:07:00 -
[7]
For those that don't know, holding 'shift' while modifying probes will modify all your active ones. For example, shift-drag will drag all active probes and shift-resize will resize all active probes. This has helped me immensely as far as probing things down quickly. I'm sure that with practice, you'll be able to probe ships down fairly quickly.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.19 08:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
For those that don't know, holding 'shift' while modifying probes will modify all your active ones. For example, shift-drag will drag all active probes and shift-resize will resize all active probes. This has helped me immensely as far as probing things down quickly. I'm sure that with practice, you'll be able to probe ships down fairly quickly.
OMG. You are now my favorite person. You have no idea how much frustration and anger you have just saved me.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.19 10:22:00 -
[9]
Yes, the shift trick works wonders and ALWAYS use shift if you want to change elevation of probes, keeps things a lot easier and tidier. Also; don't scale down on scanrange too quickly, it's an easy mistake to make but it really does pay to use the large ranges and gradually narrow down the search.
Using a covops frigate helps tremendously due to the scan strength bonus they get, together with all the other stuff this means that probing has now become a proper 'professions' are it's more of an art than simple button mashing. And as a long time covops pilot I can only applaud that.
Finding ships still is easy once you start learning to use the shift key and get more experience but it's no more "start probe on alt, alttab to main and do some stuff, alttab back to alt and warp to target".
Self-proclaimed idiot
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128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.19 12:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
For those that don't know, holding 'shift' while modifying probes will modify all your active ones. For example, shift-drag will drag all active probes and shift-resize will resize all active probes. This has helped me immensely as far as probing things down quickly. I'm sure that with practice, you'll be able to probe ships down fairly quickly.
Awesome contribution. Thank you very much.
I've been practicing last night and got my first 100% results. However in some cases I could and in some cases I couldn't warp to the 100% results? It seemed a bit buggy, am I missing something here?
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Miilla
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Posted - 2009.03.19 12:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Miilla on 19/03/2009 12:57:18
You can use up to 8 probes with Astrometrics V, so why don't you increase your system coverage of highly probable locations?
I love the new scanning system and can find people within minuites, I strongly recommend you set your filters correctly for the patterns you are looking for. Scanning is like the Office Ribbon, you get used to it with practice and then you actually start to like it very much :)
What I want is more task based UI configuring so I can have my UI layouts for my own tasks at hand and keybindings for scanning instead of using the mouse to click the scan button.
If you are really into it you can plot every scan hit you get for missioners and log the mission and then plot those over time to get a broad picture of the most likely patterns for those missions. I am sure they do cluster to a bias.
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Culprit Dea
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: 128th ABC123
I've been practicing last night and got my first 100% results. However in some cases I could and in some cases I couldn't warp to the 100% results? It seemed a bit buggy, am I missing something here?
I've had that happen as well. I beleive it's a matter of you needing more probes to hit on the target before you can warp to it. So you might of had the X and Y plane, but were missing the Z axis. Hope that helps.
Great thread. Thanks very much for that shift trick. I've got another question, that I hope you guys can help me with. It's been driving me nuts...
When you're looking at the map, how do you change the focal (pivot) point of the camera? So often I'll be trying to manouvre my probes around a hit, but the camera is pivoting around a moon or something off to the side. I've managed to change it a few times by left clicking and sliding the mouse, but I can't seem to select something (like a potential hit) and make that the center of my camera.
Please help!
Thanks,
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twomtNW
SIRRIUS.
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Posted - 2009.03.19 17:02:00 -
[13]
double-click?
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xhardxcorex
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Posted - 2009.03.19 20:30:00 -
[14]
Man, I know the feeling... I keep expecting a hand to reach out of my eve client, slap my hand off the mouse and say 'You're doing it wrong!'
The shift trick is amazing though. The whole system would be worthless with out it imo.
I'm new to scanning. I trained most of the scanning related skills up to 3-4 in the last month and in anticipation of the new scanning changes, did not even try the old system to cut down on confusion when the new system hit.
Questions I have
Why does it seem like I get 100%, warpable hits on exhumers and mining barges all the time... but not the BCs in safe spots I'm trying to scan for? What's causing this? Sig radius of the target ship? Size or mass of the ship? Proximity to celestial objects?
What is the largest I should set my probes to begin a scan for a ship in a safe spot? It seems like when I throw my probes way out to cover a large distance I get a million hits that don't give me any info (ship type, a dot, nothing). When I cluster the probes up and cut their size down I can't seem to find anything at all... Is there an easier way to narrow down the one ship I want? The directional scanner helps somewhat... Anyone got any tricks or tips?
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
DEATH'S LEGION
Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.03.19 20:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 19/03/2009 20:54:09
Originally by: 128th ABC123
I've been practicing last night and got my first 100% results. However in some cases I could and in some cases I couldn't warp to the 100% results? It seemed a bit buggy, am I missing something here?
Just guessing here, but I think you got a result with less than 4 probes. These may display 100%, but only a quadangulated result from 4 probes at 100% is a warpable.
If you look at your result window, a result that is succesfully combined from multiple probes will display as one result, while if probes fail to combine (this can happen if they are too close together for example, or if they dont all overlap the target properly) they will each display their individual results.
These can say 100%, but you cant warp to them, it only means the individual probes result is 100% reliable, i.e. the distance shown is 100% correct.
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xhardxcorex
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:15:00 -
[16]
That's helping a good bit actually.
Another thing that's helping significantly is setting up my filters to be a bit more specific. As I do 99% of my probing in high sec, it's cutting down on false results a lot to have a different filters for each ship size.
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