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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:14:00 -
[1]
So I got bored tonite and in lieu of some pretty interesting use of terminology in the "Sleeper drop" topic I boilerplated these.
Material Faucet
Material Sink
ISK Sink
ISK Faucet
Sure I argue in topics, but I'm no documentary maker, and I'm certainly not a wiki-page-maker. But I figured it'd be nice to have these here to link in the future when people jump down the same old holes.
Go ahead and rip it all up now  . I made them as basic as possible.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:34:00 -
[2]
I'm sorry...
Best title ever. 
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Maestro Del'Tirith
Del'Tirith Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:58:00 -
[3]
Can't see the links, it says that it is under review by the team before being made available.
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720
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:33:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith
Can't see the links, it says that it is under review by the team before being made available.
Seconded.
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:40:00 -
[5]
I had a thread post a long time ago about what was a Sink and what was a Faucet, it was very detailed. I'll see if I can find it.
Amarr for Life |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:00:00 -
[6]
Small isk source: at least 3bn isk given out (by CCP) in events as prizes, e.g. Ruevo Aram riddle contest.
Additional sinks:
Placing an ad in the corporate registry
Alliance maintenance fees
---
20:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:33:00 -
[7]
You can see the text even if it's not approved, just log in and press "edit".
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:06:00 -
[8]
Cool. Yeah, viewing of the page is 'under review', but the draft is there. It's incredibly minimal, like, two sentences on each one, a small list of examples and in some cases, "common myths" since I'm no economist.
I was dubious as to the need for 'common myths', but then realised I thought of making the pages because some seem to think PvP is an ISK Sink, when it's actually a Material Sink and a ISK Faucet. Some people would probably even fervently believe it's an ISK sink enough to change it, so it's there to discourage that I guess.
Another page I was considering was an
ISK Transfer page as a counterpoise to ISK Sinks and ISK Faucets, but I thought writing a wiki-page detailing what happens when one player gives another player ISK was a bit silly.
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:42:00 -
[9]
Note: Your links have been fixed by the YARR team, due to naming conventions. Second word of the page title has to be lowercase...
--------
EBANK Forum Manager | KIA Recruiting Director |
SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 17/03/2009 20:41:06
You can see the text even if it's not approved, just log in and press "edit".
__
P.S. @SencneS' post...
For ISK sinks, corection on 6 : sales tax (as opposed to, say, player corp tax)
and you forgot the following sinks:
22) Placing an ad in the corporate registry (from post above)
23) alliance maintenance fees (from post above)
24) CSPA charges
25) creating and/or awarding medals
and this is somewhat doubtful, as it's (sometimes) only temporary
26) quitting the game
Quitting the game is a sink?
Or do you mean, simply by the fact that you're not playing it, therefor you are not accessing the faucets is in itself a Sink?
Amarr for Life |
Tasko Pal
THE IRIS
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.18 01:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: SencneS
Quitting the game is a sink?
Or do you mean, simply by the fact that you're not playing it, therefor you are not accessing the faucets is in itself a Sink?
I'm not sure what the mystery is here. Look at the wallet of the quitter. That isk is taken out of circulation and hence the act of quitting becomes a sink.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.03.18 01:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: SencneS
Quitting the game is a sink?
Or do you mean, simply by the fact that you're not playing it, therefor you are not accessing the faucets is in itself a Sink?
I'm not sure what the mystery is here. Look at the wallet of the quitter. That isk is taken out of circulation and hence the act of quitting becomes a sink.
People who quit also come back and not infrequently give away/sell their assets. It's not a true ISK sink, at least in my opinion.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.18 02:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
People who quit also come back and not infrequently give away/sell their assets. It's not a true ISK sink, at least in my opinion.
That's exactly why I said "somewhat doubtful, as it's (sometimes) only temporary" just before that point 
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2009.03.18 02:23:00 -
[14]
Or people come back and collect insurance on their ships and then give it away. Quiters can generate even more isk (I hate the term isk faucet).
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven
this thread is obviously going places
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.18 04:33:00 -
[15]
I guess the definition needs to be defined an ISK SINK is actually ISK that has left the game permanently. ISK from long dead accounts is still counted when CCP runs a report on wallets to see how much ISK there is in the game.
I guess you could technically say the ISK in wallets from people quiting and not returning is a "Soft" ISK Sink since it has the potential to enter circulation again.
Amarr for Life |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.18 06:42:00 -
[16]
On an aside, the pages were approved, but apparently they didn't match naming convention, so I've updated the links up there to reflect those changes if anyone wants to help flesh the bones there out.
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.03.18 09:36:00 -
[17]
How is destroying an abandoned ship a 'faucet'? Presumably the value of any salvage is less than the value of the minerals required to build the ship.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 18/03/2009 10:14:06
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 18/03/2009 10:08:45
Quote:
How is destroying an abandoned ship a 'faucet'? Presumably the value of any salvage is less than the value of the minerals required to build the ship.
ISK materialises from nowhere in the form of insurance. Even if you don't insure a ship you recieve a basic ISK payout, therefore it's an ISK faucet.
It's a material sink because items (not ISK) are removed from the universe.
If it's not clear, consider this:
In the universe there is *one* uninsured raven. There is zero isk in the universe.
It blows up.
Whoever owns it recieves 40 million ISK (about), that's the ISK faucet. There is no longer a raven in the universe, that's the material sink. Salvaging itself is a material faucet, as new materials enter the universe.
Goods != ISK. It doesn't matter whether the market value of the goods leftover after destroying the raven add up to the original market value of the raven, what matters is suddenly 40 million ISK appears from nowhere.
Your question is exactly the sort of misconception that these articles, when they get developed more, should help resolve.
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 18/03/2009 10:31:58
Quote:
How is destroying an abandoned ship a 'faucet'? Presumably the value of any salvage is less than the value of the minerals required to build the ship.
ISK materialises from nowhere in the form of insurance. Even if you don't insure a ship you recieve a basic ISK payout, therefore it's an ISK faucet.
It's a material sink because items (not ISK) are removed from the universe.
Ah, right.
Quote:
If it's not clear, consider this:
In the universe there is *one* uninsured raven. There is zero isk in the universe.
It blows up.
Whoever owns it recieves 40 million ISK (about), that's the ISK faucet. There is no longer a raven in the universe, that's the material sink. Salvaging itself is a material faucet, as new materials enter the universe.
I had no idea the basic 'uninsured' payout was as high as that, though. And it's amusing to speculate how a raven gets blown up if it's the only thing in the universe. ;)
Quote:
Goods != ISK. It doesn't matter whether the market value of the goods leftover after destroying the raven add up to the original market value of the raven, what matters is suddenly 40 million ISK appears from nowhere. And as far as inflation/deflation in the economy goes, it's pretty important.
Your question is exactly the sort of misconception that these articles, when they get developed more, should help resolve.
EDIT: If destroying a ship *wasn't* an ISK faucet, there should only be what you salvage afterwards, no ISK at all.
Yes, I forgot about the 'uninsured' payout you get. I should have said that I thought it must be a net material sink, with no isk component.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nick Turing
I had no idea the basic 'uninsured' payout was as high as that, though. And it's amusing to speculate how a raven gets blown up if it's the only thing in the universe. ;)
Ravens have the ability to self-destruct, C/D?
---
20:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nick Turing
I had no idea the basic 'uninsured' payout (for a Raven) was as high as that, though.
With no insurance, you get back 40% of the base price, or in case of a Raven, 43.5 mil ISK.
With platinum insurance, you pay 30% to get back 100%, so a difference of 70% of base price, which in case of a Raven is 76.125 mil ISK.
Kind of makes you wonder "why bother insuring anything in the first place" 
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:53:00 -
[22]
you forgot repair fees (mine is the tens of millions per day) from overheating and armor/hull buffer tanks among lots of others. which i think was mentioned above..
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE
if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.03.18 16:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Nick Turing
I had no idea the basic 'uninsured' payout (for a Raven) was as high as that, though.
With no insurance, you get back 40% of the base price, or in case of a Raven, 43.5 mil ISK.
With platinum insurance, you pay 30% to get back 100%, so a difference of 70% of base price, which in case of a Raven is 76.125 mil ISK.
Kind of makes you wonder "why bother insuring anything in the first place"
When you're sure you're going to loose it before the insurance expires which describes every single BS I've ever fit for PVP. Wait, what does that say about my PVP skills? 
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tongues
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Posted - 2009.03.18 18:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: tongues on 18/03/2009 18:46:10
Edited by: tongues on 18/03/2009 18:45:41
ehhh i think you missed the math there.
or you were just joshing... but regardless...
he's saying that... here lets simplify...
rounding down.
the "raven" costs 100mil isk.
you pay 30mil to insure.
a total cost of 130mil.
you blow up.
you get back 70mil.
in total you've lost 60mil.
70+60=130... the total cost you paid before.
now look at the uninsured one.
100mil to buy.
it blows up.
you get back 40mil.
you've lost a total of 60mil.....
wait... same as the insured result... eeeenteresting.
this doesn't work in every case i don't think but with some ships yeah... don't bother insuring eh? hahaha.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:06:00 -
[25]
Quote:
the "raven" costs 100mil isk.
you pay 30mil to insure.
a total cost of 130mil.
you blow up.
you get back 70mil.
in total you've lost 60mil.
70+60=130... the total cost you paid before.
now look at the uninsured one.
100mil to buy.
it blows up.
you get back 40mil.
you've lost a total of 60mil.....
wait... same as the insured result... eeeenteresting.
Your maths is wrong.
Raven (costs about 90 mil off market actually, but lets stick with 100 for arguments sake).
100 mil to buy, 30 mil to insure at 100%. Total expense: 130 mil. Lose it and you get back *100* mil (not 70). Net loss: 30 mil.
OR
Raven costs 100 mil. You lose it and get 40 mil back. Net loss: 60 mil.
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Xeoniya
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:32:00 -
[26]
"Quit" accounts could probably be classified as an isk Freeze. Only by terminating (so it no longer exists) a character without transferring the isk out would be a sink.
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Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2009.03.19 02:14:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 19/03/2009 02:24:23
regarding "quit/parked" accounts: as it isnt the sheer volume of isk that we are usually interested in (but the fraction that is actively used), one could say: hell, yes, taking a vacation from eve is atleast an isk "velocity sink". ;)
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tongues
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Posted - 2009.03.19 05:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Your maths is wrong.
Raven (costs about 90 mil off market actually, but lets stick with 100 for arguments sake).
100 mil to buy, 30 mil to insure at 100%. Total expense: 130 mil. Lose it and you get back *100* mil (not 70). Net loss: 30 mil.
OR
Raven costs 100 mil. You lose it and get 40 mil back. Net loss: 60 mil.
oh right right right i thought he was saying you only get back 70% of that but i just completely forgot the whole point of insurance. he just meant 70% of total put in not of cost.. my mistake.
i'm glad i just added three extra posts that didn't need to be here..
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