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ChiTrade
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Posted - 2009.03.19 06:08:00 -
[1]
I saw this article today in my local paper and thought the MD regulars would be interested:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/online-game-gets-realworld-banking-licence/2009/03/19/1237054971304.html
Given CCP sell GTCs, and the importance of markets in eve, perhaps this could occur...?
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ofstrife
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Posted - 2009.03.19 07:19:00 -
[2]
This isn't really applicable. Selling GTCs is like selling any other product. Sure, it can be converted into in-game money, but ISK can't be converted back to real-world money.
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2009.03.19 09:04:00 -
[3]
Hmm well actually I fail to see why you can not use isk to buy a gtc and use it on another player in exchage for RL money? Or did I miss something in the EULA?
In any case the OP is right ccp should really consider looking into something like the link..
In actual fact trying to stop isk trading is extremely time and value consuming. It really is only a damaging mechanic if the game is seriosuly economically broken, if its not I would say grab all the isk trade and handle it inhouse. Make all outside isk trade EULA breaking and monopolize the trade, thus retaining control 100%. This would be the best option because everyone would use ccps isk trade, becuae its risk free and thus noone outside could really compete, and you can not blame a monopoly of an actual IP item, at least not just yet..
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.19 10:37:00 -
[4]
They allow "a free conversion between its virtual currency and real money", this does not (even) remotely apply to Eve. First of all you can't convert ISK into real money and secondly if you 'buy' ISK using GTCs you're not getting new ISK from CCP but already existing ISK from another player.
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F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:36:00 -
[5]
That wouldnt work in the current form eve works right now because in that game farming npc's makes the worst money in eve farming npc's probably makes the most per hour.
You would also need to change the infinite minerals of moons and other stuff which has a constant respawn then make everything more random and probably alot of other things.
It also would be a big nerf to high sec as you cant allow the players to make alot of isk without risks.
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iudex
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:04:00 -
[6]
It has nothing to do with usual MMOs. I play this MMO, Entropia Universe, it's a real cash economy system, means your weapons, ammo loot and all the other stuff has a RL cash value. They don't call it a game, critics call it a huge pyramid scam, others claim to make good rl money in that game. For example you can be lucky, shoot a mob that has loot worth 10.000 PED in it, and then convert the 10.000 PED loot into 1000 US-$ (cash out), the company will transfer the cash to your rl bank account or send you a cheque. The incoming and outgoing payments come from all around the world in diffrent currencies, having a banking license gives them some kind of advantage because of that.
But it is completely diffrent from the normal MMO and banking might make sense for them, not for another Eve or any other regular MMO.
Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88 |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:53:00 -
[7]
Entropia Universe is not really a MMO, it's a MMO-themed casino. The entire game "economy" is not so much an economy as it is the means to force the average player into injecting additional cash into the system on a regular basis.
The fact some people walk away richer due to the fact there is a bit of skill involved in the game is not much different from what goes on in a real-life casino, with the difference you won't get broken fingers for counting cards, you get props for doing it instead.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:06:00 -
[8]
Edited by: SencneS on 25/03/2009 14:06:50
Yes, don't get drawn into the fact that it all sounds awesome. I have had first hand experiance at this game and I can tell you now, it's not what it's cracked up to be.
Along with T's examples, the best way to describe it is.. Imagine EVE free, but everything costs pennies (1cent), now imagine you needing to spend 1cent every 2 minutes..
Math comes out to be something like....
4 hours a day game play, costs you $1.20, * 30 = $36 a month.
NOTHING is free in the game other then walking around and talking. People charge you to enter their buildings, they charge you for a "Virtual Drink" they charge you for something for cloths, which are not required, and which degrade over time..
Trust me, a month in the game you could easily spend $50 and not do anything other then "Fit in" with everyone one. This game NEEDS a real life bank just to handle the amount of nickel and dimming that goes on..
Amarr for Life |
Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:13:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: SencneS
they charge you for a "Virtual Drink"
This I will NEVER understand, not ever..!
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-=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=- |
Miranda Reactor
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Posted - 2009.03.28 16:17:00 -
[10]
Hasn't secondlife been doin this kinda thing long before Entropia?
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2009.03.28 16:47:00 -
[11]
Its funny.. Every time this topic is mentioned or brought up it bends away from the core issue..
EVE has its own economy. The player base have assets in there..
The assets in EVE has a value ingame. This value is communicated out of the game universe via the player. The result is that the items ingame are actually demanded out of the game. The demand no matter how we bend it generates a value in RL currency. So the point isnt about comparing to other games, its all about whether or not to allow this demand to be realized and the items to be traded.
We will never get rid of the demand so the best way to deal with it would be to have ccp put up a method to trade these things. An ebay like auction system would be the perfect solution.
About the grind and the isk faucets.
This is a game balance problem, that ccp could just make a priority to solve. Fixing loot tables and making sure the relevant professions had better balance and incentives.
Resolving the faucet issues is a matter of shifting things in the right direction, problem is that atm this could cause to much whining and thus be a bad move marketing and PR wise.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Drab Cane
Mining Emporium inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.28 17:58:00 -
[12]
I think trading GTCs and PLEXs is about as far as we need to go, regarding trading RL currency for ISK.
The rest of the RL trading, like character sales, is basically black-market trading. Its going to happen, regardless of anyone's attempts to regulate it.
I fail to see what would be gained by bringing such things in-game.
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- Who Dares, Wins
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.28 19:56:00 -
[13]
Project Entropia works fine so long as you understand economics, business strategy, and approach as a business and not a game. Someone sold real estate in that game for nearly $200k real money. Now don't look at how much that person just made, imagine how much the buyer is making now if he could afford that. The guy said it was a smarter investment than the condos he was looking at as an alternative. I know of someone that spent only $20 a month when he started playing the game and after 6 months he no longer needed to spend any money, he made enough in the game to support his account. The game requires forethought and intelligence.
EVE's economics are not setup to allow this function. There is no isk drain really, all the isk just transfers from player to player. Ships blowing up is the only thing that keeps inflation down, it keeps constant demand out there. But free money enters the universe all the time through missions, while I can't think of anything that drains it. Skill books?
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Khrillian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.28 20:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
Its funny.. Every time this topic is mentioned or brought up it bends away from the core issue..
EVE has its own economy. The player base have assets in there..
The assets in EVE has a value ingame. This value is communicated out of the game universe via the player. The result is that the items ingame are actually demanded out of the game. The demand no matter how we bend it generates a value in RL currency. So the point isnt about comparing to other games, its all about whether or not to allow this demand to be realized and the items to be traded.
We will never get rid of the demand so the best way to deal with it would be to have ccp put up a method to trade these things. An ebay like auction system would be the perfect solution.
About the grind and the isk faucets.
This is a game balance problem, that ccp could just make a priority to solve. Fixing loot tables and making sure the relevant professions had better balance and incentives.
Resolving the faucet issues is a matter of shifting things in the right direction, problem is that atm this could cause to much whining and thus be a bad move marketing and PR wise.
What do you think explains the fact that so many MMO developers are willing to sacrifice revenue by banning thousands of players for ISK trading? Are they simply wrong, and would actually maximize present value of earnings if they allowed RMT trading, or would they lose more players in the long run who were angry about RMT because they viewed it as "unfair?"
Originally by: Angelos
Project Entropia works fine so long as you understand economics, business strategy, and approach as a business and not a game. Someone sold real estate in that game for nearly $200k real money. Now don't look at how much that person just made, imagine how much the buyer is making now if he could afford that. The guy said it was a smarter investment than the condos he was looking at as an alternative. I know of someone that spent only $20 a month when he started playing the game and after 6 months he no longer needed to spend any money, he made enough in the game to support his account. The game requires forethought and intelligence.
EVE's economics are not setup to allow this function. There is no isk drain really, all the isk just transfers from player to player. Ships blowing up is the only thing that keeps inflation down, it keeps constant demand out there. But free money enters the universe all the time through missions, while I can't think of anything that drains it. Skill books?
What? No ISK drain? Try NPC sold blueprints, market taxes, contract fees, NPC office rental fees. Ships blowing up keeps inflation UP not down because of insurance...
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Aniel Zaar
Gallente
Light of Orion
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Posted - 2009.03.29 05:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Khrillian
Ships blowing up keeps inflation UP not down because of insurance...
Really? What the insurance payout on a Titan/Mothership/Dred? Throwing in officer mods?
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By the way, I am an Ishtar and T2 sentries fan. Fight to make the sentry damage rig work for all drones. |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2009.03.29 06:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Khrillian
What do you think explains the fact that so many MMO developers are willing to sacrifice revenue by banning thousands of players for ISK trading? Are they simply wrong, and would actually maximize present value of earnings if they allowed RMT trading, or would they lose more players in the long run who were angry about RMT because they viewed it as "unfair?"
I would not say SIMPLY wrong. There is no way to fully stop the black trading of the virtual value, so I am simply stating that there must be a better way to do it. Dont work against something that you cant stop anyways, work with it instead.
This is about balance, and about wealth redistribution ingame and in RL, and actually the evening out of these cross reality issues.
I personally dont see a problem with some of my money going to a chines or eastern european that has low incomes. Sharing the wealth RL wise through a virtual venue seem rather philanthropic to me actually. The question is really only how to make sure the balance of how worthwhile grinding 8 hours a day really is, and what demands there is on player strategies.
Putting some limitations on how much each account can transfer out of the system and how much a player can put into the game. Its actually just about bridging the economies and balancing the two, while ofc ccp should always have the advantage so they can keep making the universe we populate better and more entertaining.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
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Posted - 2009.03.29 07:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aniel Zaar
Originally by: Khrillian
Ships blowing up keeps inflation UP not down because of insurance...
Really? What the insurance payout on a Titan/Mothership/Dred? Throwing in officer mods?
As much as it is without fittings  The issue is the ship exploding means you get ISK from no where?!?!
Dynasty Banking |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.03.29 08:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
I personally dont see a problem with some of my money going to a chines or eastern european that has low incomes. Sharing the wealth RL wise through a virtual venue seem rather philanthropic to me actually. The question is really only how to make sure the balance of how worthwhile grinding 8 hours a day really is, and what demands there is on player strategies.
You have a very romantic view on things, I suggest you stop dreaming and get your feet on the ground.
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Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.29 08:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dasfry on 29/03/2009 08:29:09
I've played this game.
It has some issues.
I love the concept, however...
Entropia Universe give you nothing when you start.
Your credits are at ZERO.
You baicly start with clothes that are BROKEN to start, u can't sell them they're worth ZERO. It actually says when you ID them ZERO.
Everything wears out in the game and runs out of ammo.
When you need to repair something u goto a 'repair terminal' that charges u to fix it.
Entropia Universe, owns these repair terminals, and they're a common sight.
You'll wonder the wilderness and behold a repair terminal out in the middle of nowhere.
Where do u get this money to fix it?
As far as I know there is no such thing as mission running or bounties.
Well u have to either
1. deposit credits yourself, converted from your Real life money.
2. get it from other players, who deposited their own real life money or also traded.
Why would anyone give you any money?
Your naked with broken clothes...
u can't sell stuff u have nothing.
u can't trade u have no money to invest
ok so lets go kill something...
but your naked...
and you realize the game does not allow u to punch or kick anything or throw rocks at anything...
Unless you have a weapon of some kind equipped.
which costs money...
hmmm,... are there any other choices?
oh yah I can collect sweat...
WTF is sweat you say?
its basicly a monsters life force u magically collect into a jar.
the sweat is used to create a type of ammo
By the way, every newbie in game has this option.
So you start to collect sweat, and while your doing this the monsters are attacking you, and probably killing u.
Ok so after an hour you've collected 100 sweat.
so you think this is got to be worth something...
And you try to find someone interested in jars of sweat (monster soul)
Then you realize that the market for sweat is saturated...
people are trading 14,000 units of sweat jars for 5 credits/ped...
or translated into 50 cents... half a dollars worth.
congratulations you've joined the online sweat shop.
***********
Dasfry, Director
Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.29 08:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aniel Zaar
Originally by: Khrillian
Ships blowing up keeps inflation UP not down because of insurance...
Really? What the insurance payout on a Titan/Mothership/Dred? Throwing in officer mods?
Ship, rigs and most fittings/cargo destroyed - less goods in EVE, no ISK lost
Insurance cashed - more ISK in EVE, no goods created
So yeah, blowing ships up makes any inflationary trends worse, not better. The only exception would be if you're stupid enough to lack the foresight of predicting whether your ship is in danger of getting blown up, and you keep insuring ships that never get blown up.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
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