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Claren
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Posted - 2004.08.18 17:03:00 -
[1]
Could we please have a small change in how defender missiles behaves.
If someone fire 4 missiles at you, and you fire four defenders, they will all go for the closest missile. When the first defender destroy the closest missiles, the rest loose target and just fly around, doing nothing about the rest of the incomming missiles.
It would be realy helpfull if a defender that loose target, locks on to next incomming missile.
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Claren
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Posted - 2004.08.18 17:03:00 -
[2]
Could we please have a small change in how defender missiles behaves.
If someone fire 4 missiles at you, and you fire four defenders, they will all go for the closest missile. When the first defender destroy the closest missiles, the rest loose target and just fly around, doing nothing about the rest of the incomming missiles.
It would be realy helpfull if a defender that loose target, locks on to next incomming missile.
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DanaB
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Posted - 2004.08.19 03:10:00 -
[3]
Better NOT! Otherwise one rocket launcher could neutralize each Caldari Missile Boat including the Raven!
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DanaB
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Posted - 2004.08.19 03:10:00 -
[4]
Better NOT! Otherwise one rocket launcher could neutralize each Caldari Missile Boat including the Raven!
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Killian Drake
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Posted - 2004.08.19 13:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Killian Drake on 19/08/2004 13:36:48
Claren's right. A missile defence system must be able to prioritize targets based on proximity, and whether other countermeasures have been deployed on a certain threat.
For pity's sake, current missile defence systems do this, otherwise what would be the point of them?
Nothing ever lasts. The important thing is that it works while it lasts. |
Killian Drake
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Posted - 2004.08.19 13:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Killian Drake on 19/08/2004 13:36:48
Claren's right. A missile defence system must be able to prioritize targets based on proximity, and whether other countermeasures have been deployed on a certain threat.
For pity's sake, current missile defence systems do this, otherwise what would be the point of them?
Nothing ever lasts. The important thing is that it works while it lasts. |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.08.19 14:58:00 -
[7]
logically yes u are correct this should happen.
for balance reasons it wont cos as said above, 1 rocket launcher and the raven/caracal/kestrel are a waste of time cos u all u gotta do is spew defenders out and ur pretty much untouchable by any of the ships above.
I know what u mean but it look at it from a balance POV and u will realise there is a reason why they dont target different missiles
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.08.19 14:58:00 -
[8]
logically yes u are correct this should happen.
for balance reasons it wont cos as said above, 1 rocket launcher and the raven/caracal/kestrel are a waste of time cos u all u gotta do is spew defenders out and ur pretty much untouchable by any of the ships above.
I know what u mean but it look at it from a balance POV and u will realise there is a reason why they dont target different missiles
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Claren
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Posted - 2004.08.19 18:15:00 -
[9]
Rocket launcers only carry 10 defendermissiles, so they has to be reloaded quite often.
And I think there is a moment of balancing just by putting a defensive weapon on your ship, as that one will take a slot that otherwice could have been used for another offensive weapon. So, when useing defender missiles you will have less firepower.
If I'm going to sacrifice 1/8 of my firepower for defenders, it would be nice if they did something more than just orbit my ship.
(yes, I know I can time it by firing them manually, but there are just to much darn clicking already in a fleetbattle. Aint got time to check when my defenders explodes. And with missiles exploding all around you it is close to impossible)
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Claren
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Posted - 2004.08.19 18:15:00 -
[10]
Rocket launcers only carry 10 defendermissiles, so they has to be reloaded quite often.
And I think there is a moment of balancing just by putting a defensive weapon on your ship, as that one will take a slot that otherwice could have been used for another offensive weapon. So, when useing defender missiles you will have less firepower.
If I'm going to sacrifice 1/8 of my firepower for defenders, it would be nice if they did something more than just orbit my ship.
(yes, I know I can time it by firing them manually, but there are just to much darn clicking already in a fleetbattle. Aint got time to check when my defenders explodes. And with missiles exploding all around you it is close to impossible)
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res0nance
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Posted - 2004.08.20 04:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: res0nance on 20/08/2004 04:44:51
Speaking of which, why the hell do defenders slow your ship by 80% when fired, yet when you fire a HUGE torpedo, you dont recieve a speed penalty ?
_
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res0nance
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Posted - 2004.08.20 04:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: res0nance on 20/08/2004 04:44:51
Speaking of which, why the hell do defenders slow your ship by 80% when fired, yet when you fire a HUGE torpedo, you dont recieve a speed penalty ?
_
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.08.20 10:41:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: res0nance
Speaking of which, why the hell do defenders slow your ship by 80% when fired, yet when you fire a HUGE torpedo, you dont recieve a speed penalty ?
only happens with some ships, some do not suffer from this. think it is a known bug
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.08.20 10:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: res0nance
Speaking of which, why the hell do defenders slow your ship by 80% when fired, yet when you fire a HUGE torpedo, you dont recieve a speed penalty ?
only happens with some ships, some do not suffer from this. think it is a known bug
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.08.20 11:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 20/08/2004 11:12:57
I and several others have asked that defenders have their behaviour changed so that they generate a 'shoot list' and cycle on different missiles rather than all going for the same target.
And in th case of FOF's they try re-aquire a new target in flight if the old one dies, subject to their remaining flight time left, and standard missiles in flight self destruct immediately if the target is killed, rather than havin lots of dud missiles laggin all out for 30 secs or so while they wander about.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.08.20 11:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 20/08/2004 11:12:57
I and several others have asked that defenders have their behaviour changed so that they generate a 'shoot list' and cycle on different missiles rather than all going for the same target.
And in th case of FOF's they try re-aquire a new target in flight if the old one dies, subject to their remaining flight time left, and standard missiles in flight self destruct immediately if the target is killed, rather than havin lots of dud missiles laggin all out for 30 secs or so while they wander about.
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Claren
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Posted - 2004.08.20 19:53:00 -
[17]
That sounds good.
Regarding FOF's, it seems like cruise fof's are bugged concerning damage.
a cruise fof do only 20-30 damage. Heavy fof's works fine and do as much damage as they should compared to targeted heavies. Havn't tested light fof.
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Claren
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Posted - 2004.08.20 19:53:00 -
[18]
That sounds good.
Regarding FOF's, it seems like cruise fof's are bugged concerning damage.
a cruise fof do only 20-30 damage. Heavy fof's works fine and do as much damage as they should compared to targeted heavies. Havn't tested light fof.
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gk0r
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Posted - 2004.08.21 01:56:00 -
[19]
Nah we definitely need a fix for this. Way it is now is just insulting to players.
I am a missile user, and I can certainly see what other guys said about balance.
Solution is quite simple you see. Drop Defenders from rocket launchers; make them only usable in standard missile launcher (ROF) and all be happy.
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I make up with stupidity for the rest of my corporation.
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gk0r
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Posted - 2004.08.21 01:56:00 -
[20]
Nah we definitely need a fix for this. Way it is now is just insulting to players.
I am a missile user, and I can certainly see what other guys said about balance.
Solution is quite simple you see. Drop Defenders from rocket launchers; make them only usable in standard missile launcher (ROF) and all be happy.
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I make up with stupidity for the rest of my corporation.
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.08.21 04:44:00 -
[21]
if u remove defenders from bein loaded in rocket launchers then it might be ok. also defenders need a short flight time. but if u can spam defenders from a rocket launcher then **** it not a good idea
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.08.21 04:44:00 -
[22]
if u remove defenders from bein loaded in rocket launchers then it might be ok. also defenders need a short flight time. but if u can spam defenders from a rocket launcher then **** it not a good idea
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2004.08.21 09:48:00 -
[23]
Defenders are fine the way they are now. They dont need to be more powerful. Actualy its sad when half my missiles dont hit my target simply cus they have two slots that takes s**** in fitting requirements nullifies 3 of my Sieges. I wish I had that kind of module to fit in my Ravens two last high slots that worked on guns...
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2004.08.21 09:48:00 -
[24]
Defenders are fine the way they are now. They dont need to be more powerful. Actualy its sad when half my missiles dont hit my target simply cus they have two slots that takes s**** in fitting requirements nullifies 3 of my Sieges. I wish I had that kind of module to fit in my Ravens two last high slots that worked on guns...
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SEALen
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Posted - 2004.08.21 13:28:00 -
[25]
So what if Caldari ship can't missile swarm my gallente ship? Sound about right to me ;)
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SEALen
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Posted - 2004.08.21 13:28:00 -
[26]
So what if Caldari ship can't missile swarm my gallente ship? Sound about right to me ;)
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.08.23 00:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: SEALen
So what if Caldari ship can't missile swarm my gallente ship? Sound about right to me ;)
What ^^ he said! 
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.08.23 00:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SEALen
So what if Caldari ship can't missile swarm my gallente ship? Sound about right to me ;)
What ^^ he said!
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Ka Dargo
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Posted - 2004.08.23 03:34:00 -
[29]
The problem with defenders affecting speed is such a killer. I've noticed more on Chaos than on TQ.
oh and defenders do nee the fix mentioned above, atm the Raven will own other ships, if you don't believe me I will introduce you to a corp mate of mine on Chaos.
- Ka Dargo.
[ 2005.04.10 14:41:05 ] Your 425mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pith Massacrer, wrecking for 1271.6 damage.
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Ka Dargo
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Posted - 2004.08.23 03:34:00 -
[30]
The problem with defenders affecting speed is such a killer. I've noticed more on Chaos than on TQ.
oh and defenders do nee the fix mentioned above, atm the Raven will own other ships, if you don't believe me I will introduce you to a corp mate of mine on Chaos.
- Ka Dargo.
[ 2005.04.10 14:41:05 ] Your 425mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pith Massacrer, wrecking for 1271.6 damage.
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Doven
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Posted - 2004.08.24 11:38:00 -
[31]
Hello.. 
The problem with defenders as a whole needs to be considered I agree. (not sure if this gets touched by CCP).. But more importantly to me (and the reason I no longer even USE defender missles) is the pulse fluctuation that using Defenders causes on your velocity.
No other missle systems create this "pulse" to the warp velocity while launching them or while launching them and using MWD or AB. Simply put, if you fire defender missles while orbiting it makes your velocity gauge pulse. This is a KNOWN issue with a small group of people that have recognized it. Simple test is to low lev fight something with missles and coast normal drive while defender launcher is activated.
What is the most unfortunate response to this "pulsing" is that you cannot effectively warp out of an emergency situation because something that gauges (in code) at what level the warp "hits" cant get an effective loc to trigger the warp.. there fore you simply get the "not enough available power" or "not at the correct speed" to warp error. (Please dont quote me on the exact error type..  I have forgotten it.)
I am not suggesting "low power" due to capacitor issues from running MWD or AB. Again.. run the test while coasting regular orbit speed. I have had one ship crippled due to this and it was lost. Many, many other players have lost ships due to this without even knowing it and once finding out have completely dumped defenders.. or only use them on manual setting. Opting to use Smart bombs instead.
Defenders ROF IMO should NOT be changed as to the launcher type. There are ways to counter missles other than defender.. and one who mounts a rocket launcher to use defenders is stuck with using rockets as a switchout. I know maybe three people that use rockets exclusively with Crow sets? They are not that popular.
To me a possible fix could be:
1. Limit the damage a defender does.. maybe up to lights and rockets a complete destroy but would take two for cruisers and torps?
2. Create heavy, cruise and torp defender types?
3. Create an EM that can "disrupt" or possibly interrupt the flight capabilities of missles in general.
4. FIX the pulse flux with using defenders ingeneral
5. Create "Signal Disrupting" Smart Bombs that can only be used manually and only against Missile projectiles? Maybe put a long re-charge on them.
6. Dismantle the 1 sec "flyout from the ship" sequence when defender missle is launched.
There is more I could add.. but then I would be more sleepy than I am.
These are some of the ideas I have thought I would like to see with defenders..  But as it stands now.. Defenders are more a risk than an advantage. If I fly anything against missles its either speed/distance or Smartbombs until they get some lookin into.
ty
Doven
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Doven
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Posted - 2004.08.24 11:38:00 -
[32]
Hello..
The problem with defenders as a whole needs to be considered I agree. (not sure if this gets touched by CCP).. But more importantly to me (and the reason I no longer even USE defender missles) is the pulse fluctuation that using Defenders causes on your velocity.
No other missle systems create this "pulse" to the warp velocity while launching them or while launching them and using MWD or AB. Simply put, if you fire defender missles while orbiting it makes your velocity gauge pulse. This is a KNOWN issue with a small group of people that have recognized it. Simple test is to low lev fight something with missles and coast normal drive while defender launcher is activated.
What is the most unfortunate response to this "pulsing" is that you cannot effectively warp out of an emergency situation because something that gauges (in code) at what level the warp "hits" cant get an effective loc to trigger the warp.. there fore you simply get the "not enough available power" or "not at the correct speed" to warp error. (Please dont quote me on the exact error type.. I have forgotten it.)
I am not suggesting "low power" due to capacitor issues from running MWD or AB. Again.. run the test while coasting regular orbit speed. I have had one ship crippled due to this and it was lost. Many, many other players have lost ships due to this without even knowing it and once finding out have completely dumped defenders.. or only use them on manual setting. Opting to use Smart bombs instead.
Defenders ROF IMO should NOT be changed as to the launcher type. There are ways to counter missles other than defender.. and one who mounts a rocket launcher to use defenders is stuck with using rockets as a switchout. I know maybe three people that use rockets exclusively with Crow sets? They are not that popular.
To me a possible fix could be:
1. Limit the damage a defender does.. maybe up to lights and rockets a complete destroy but would take two for cruisers and torps?
2. Create heavy, cruise and torp defender types?
3. Create an EM that can "disrupt" or possibly interrupt the flight capabilities of missles in general.
4. FIX the pulse flux with using defenders ingeneral
5. Create "Signal Disrupting" Smart Bombs that can only be used manually and only against Missile projectiles? Maybe put a long re-charge on them.
6. Dismantle the 1 sec "flyout from the ship" sequence when defender missle is launched.
There is more I could add.. but then I would be more sleepy than I am.
These are some of the ideas I have thought I would like to see with defenders.. But as it stands now.. Defenders are more a risk than an advantage. If I fly anything against missles its either speed/distance or Smartbombs until they get some lookin into.
ty
Doven
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Ka Dargo
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Posted - 2004.09.06 10:37:00 -
[33]
Yep it needs to be fixed thats for sure.
- Ka Dargo.
[ 2005.04.10 14:41:05 ] Your 425mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pith Massacrer, wrecking for 1271.6 damage.
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Ka Dargo
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Posted - 2004.09.06 10:37:00 -
[34]
Yep it needs to be fixed thats for sure.
- Ka Dargo.
[ 2005.04.10 14:41:05 ] Your 425mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pith Massacrer, wrecking for 1271.6 damage.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.09.08 13:36:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Grey Area on 08/09/2004 13:39:43
Defenders should be scrapped in favour of a point defense laser system. It would drain energy constantly, but you would not need to target missiles manually, it fires automatically when a missile comes within 5km of your ship. The damage it does should be random and there should be a chance that the missile could survive (a good example would be the "two dice" rule, which means you have a high probability of seven points damage, but an outside chance of 2 or 12). Plus of course if there's more than one missile it can only target one.
That way there'd be no junk about launching times and no cloud of useless defender missiles floating around having lost their target, and it would give energy turret based ship setups some means of defence.
Also the possibility of having a small, medium and large version, each doing more damage but draining substantially more cap.
Another thought - if you had a skill required to use it then higher levels of the skill would give a faster firing rate - but it should be a Rank 5 skill, and separate skill required for each of small, medium and large, and the appropriate energy turret skill already learned to level 5.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.09.08 13:36:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Grey Area on 08/09/2004 13:39:43
Defenders should be scrapped in favour of a point defense laser system. It would drain energy constantly, but you would not need to target missiles manually, it fires automatically when a missile comes within 5km of your ship. The damage it does should be random and there should be a chance that the missile could survive (a good example would be the "two dice" rule, which means you have a high probability of seven points damage, but an outside chance of 2 or 12). Plus of course if there's more than one missile it can only target one.
That way there'd be no junk about launching times and no cloud of useless defender missiles floating around having lost their target, and it would give energy turret based ship setups some means of defence.
Also the possibility of having a small, medium and large version, each doing more damage but draining substantially more cap.
Another thought - if you had a skill required to use it then higher levels of the skill would give a faster firing rate - but it should be a Rank 5 skill, and separate skill required for each of small, medium and large, and the appropriate energy turret skill already learned to level 5.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
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