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K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 13:42:00 - [1] Edited by: K'ang on 19/08/2004 13:56:38 You folks are going to LOVE this. They don't include EVE in the study, from what I can tell, but it is still interesting... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3570224.stm Same thing we do every night, Pinky...!
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 13:42:00 - [2] Edited by: K'ang on 19/08/2004 13:56:38 You folks are going to LOVE this. They don't include EVE in the study, from what I can tell, but it is still interesting... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3570224.stm Same thing we do every night, Pinky...!
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:01:00 - [3] Originally by: K'ang Edited by: K'ang on 19/08/2004 13:56:38 You folks are going to LOVE this. They don't include EVE in the study, from what I can tell, but it is still interesting... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3570224.stm Same thing we do every night, Pinky...! Why would Eve be in that list, Eve is real life isn't it? ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:01:00 - [4] Originally by: K'ang Edited by: K'ang on 19/08/2004 13:56:38 You folks are going to LOVE this. They don't include EVE in the study, from what I can tell, but it is still interesting... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3570224.stm Same thing we do every night, Pinky...! Why would Eve be in that list, Eve is real life isn't it? ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
meowcat	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:06:00 - [5] thats the first time i've thought "effin hell, i need to stop playing these stupid computer games..." in a very long time
meowcat	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:06:00 - [6] thats the first time i've thought "effin hell, i need to stop playing these stupid computer games..." in a very long time
Carmen Priano	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:36:00 - [7] Hm. There's a leap of logic in that article -- presumably one that doesn't exist in the formal paper. The real-world economic impact of games is only realized when the goods created in-game are traded for goods out-of-game -- the term 'goods' in this case including that ever-important medium of exchange, money. ;p
Carmen Priano	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:36:00 - [8] Hm. There's a leap of logic in that article -- presumably one that doesn't exist in the formal paper. The real-world economic impact of games is only realized when the goods created in-game are traded for goods out-of-game -- the term 'goods' in this case including that ever-important medium of exchange, money. ;p
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Carmen Priano Hm. There's a leap of logic in that article -- presumably one that doesn't exist in the formal paper. The real-world economic impact of games is only realized when the goods created in-game are traded for goods out-of-game -- the term 'goods' in this case including that ever-important medium of exchange, money. ;p Actually, I think that they are just making a comparision in relativistic terms about productivity rather than actual real-life revenues. I rather doubt that selling ISK on ebay would produce revenues for all sales equal to the GDP of Jamaica, either way. I understand his supposition to be that given in-game revenues as a indicator of productivity vis a vis the productivity of some countries, players have the capacity to equal or surpass those that work at life for subsistance/increase in their standard of living as opposed to simply recreation. Comments, questions, nasty remarks?
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Carmen Priano Hm. There's a leap of logic in that article -- presumably one that doesn't exist in the formal paper. The real-world economic impact of games is only realized when the goods created in-game are traded for goods out-of-game -- the term 'goods' in this case including that ever-important medium of exchange, money. ;p Actually, I think that they are just making a comparision in relativistic terms about productivity rather than actual real-life revenues. I rather doubt that selling ISK on ebay would produce revenues for all sales equal to the GDP of Jamaica, either way. I understand his supposition to be that given in-game revenues as a indicator of productivity vis a vis the productivity of some countries, players have the capacity to equal or surpass those that work at life for subsistance/increase in their standard of living as opposed to simply recreation. Comments, questions, nasty remarks?
Ravna Mayer	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:56:00 - [11] Quote: I rather doubt that selling ISK on ebay would produce revenues for all sales equal to the GDP of Jamaica, either way. The value of EVE items and ISK is lower than most other games... but it isn't saying that anyway. It's talking about all major online games, individual games having higher net worth int erms of RL sales than EVE items by far. Exclusion of EVE indicates its niche audience and lack of penetration into the overall marketplace more than anything else, some of those games listed are pretty small. That in itself is a good pointer at why the net worth of EVE ISK and items is lower than other games.
Ravna Mayer	Posted - 2004.08.19 14:56:00 - [12] Quote: I rather doubt that selling ISK on ebay would produce revenues for all sales equal to the GDP of Jamaica, either way. The value of EVE items and ISK is lower than most other games... but it isn't saying that anyway. It's talking about all major online games, individual games having higher net worth int erms of RL sales than EVE items by far. Exclusion of EVE indicates its niche audience and lack of penetration into the overall marketplace more than anything else, some of those games listed are pretty small. That in itself is a good pointer at why the net worth of EVE ISK and items is lower than other games.
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 15:48:00 - [13] I just reread the article and they are indeed discussing in game productivity vs. productivity of RL workers: "Prof Castronova found that, on average, a typical person spending a typical hour in Everquest produces goods and services roughly equivalent to the value of goods and services produced by a typical Bulgarian spending a typical hour in Bulgaria." This has nothing to do with making money in RL off of the game. It is just saying that people who play the game tend to work as hard at it, and produce a commesurate amount of goods and services, as a real person in RL does given the same types of measurements (i.e. units of productivity versus time units spent doing it). I do agree with the observation that the fact that EVE is not directly representative is a function of its niche and that the study was done by the Indiana University. I think that this a very insightful statement. Given the market penetration within the US relative to other MMORPGs and that EVE is much stronger in Europe, I would agree that this would likely influence its selection.
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 15:48:00 - [14] I just reread the article and they are indeed discussing in game productivity vs. productivity of RL workers: "Prof Castronova found that, on average, a typical person spending a typical hour in Everquest produces goods and services roughly equivalent to the value of goods and services produced by a typical Bulgarian spending a typical hour in Bulgaria." This has nothing to do with making money in RL off of the game. It is just saying that people who play the game tend to work as hard at it, and produce a commesurate amount of goods and services, as a real person in RL does given the same types of measurements (i.e. units of productivity versus time units spent doing it). I do agree with the observation that the fact that EVE is not directly representative is a function of its niche and that the study was done by the Indiana University. I think that this a very insightful statement. Given the market penetration within the US relative to other MMORPGs and that EVE is much stronger in Europe, I would agree that this would likely influence its selection.
Reebo77	Posted - 2004.08.19 15:49:00 - [15] I suppose you could possibly learn more about economics from playing mmorpg's than doing a month long college course on it
Reebo77	Posted - 2004.08.19 15:49:00 - [16] I suppose you could possibly learn more about economics from playing mmorpg's than doing a month long college course on it
Riddari	Posted - 2004.08.19 15:51:00 - [17] Quote: "We are learning that people get deep enjoyment from building up a stock of goods out of nothing," he said. Players like going out and finding iron ore, smelting it into iron, hammering it into a sword, selling it for some gold pieces, so they can buy new clothes. "Each of those steps is emotionally satisfying," he said. "Economics is fun. And everything that is fun will stay in games, without question." Score one for the miners and producers ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.08.19 15:51:00 - [18] Quote: "We are learning that people get deep enjoyment from building up a stock of goods out of nothing," he said. Players like going out and finding iron ore, smelting it into iron, hammering it into a sword, selling it for some gold pieces, so they can buy new clothes. "Each of those steps is emotionally satisfying," he said. "Economics is fun. And everything that is fun will stay in games, without question." Score one for the miners and producers ¼©¼ a history
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:39:00 - [19] What would be interesting is to determine how productive people who play are when they are not playing. Perhaps if they are more productive within the game, what we need to do is find a way to allow people to interface with their jobs through a EVE screen. Think of all the game addicts that suddenly feel self-actualized like Maslow predicted. On second thought, I am not sure I want Mo0 responsible running our planet's economy. Microsoft is bad enough.
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:39:00 - [20] What would be interesting is to determine how productive people who play are when they are not playing. Perhaps if they are more productive within the game, what we need to do is find a way to allow people to interface with their jobs through a EVE screen. Think of all the game addicts that suddenly feel self-actualized like Maslow predicted. On second thought, I am not sure I want Mo0 responsible running our planet's economy. Microsoft is bad enough.
Aitrus	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:47:00 - [21] I saw this picture this picture with the caption: "Online gamers have a GDP bigger than Namibia" and the first thing that went through my head was... "heh, pwnd." Is there something wrong with me?
Aitrus	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:47:00 - [22] I saw this picture this picture with the caption: "Online gamers have a GDP bigger than Namibia" and the first thing that went through my head was... "heh, pwnd." Is there something wrong with me?
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:50:00 - [23] All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:50:00 - [24] All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:56:00 - [25] Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... My point exactly! We are preoocupied with the game so we make the game the vehicle to doing our RL jobs (somehow). Queing production results in an automated factory churning out something. The only problem is that we don't want our security policy set by folks used to having clones...etc...
K'ang	Posted - 2004.08.19 16:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... My point exactly! We are preoocupied with the game so we make the game the vehicle to doing our RL jobs (somehow). Queing production results in an automated factory churning out something. The only problem is that we don't want our security policy set by folks used to having clones...etc...
Hanse Davion	Posted - 2004.08.19 17:20:00 - [27] Originally by: K'ang Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... My point exactly! We are preoocupied with the game so we make the game the vehicle to doing our RL jobs (somehow). Queing production results in an automated factory churning out something. The only problem is that we don't want our security policy set by folks used to having clones...etc... Nuke'em then tell their clones we want to talk. Ahh sir, this is RL they don't have clones...... OH sh1t, I already pushed the damn button.....Hope they had Insurance. (aide walks away shaking head) we really got to replace this guy. 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage.
Hanse Davion	Posted - 2004.08.19 17:20:00 - [28] Originally by: K'ang Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... My point exactly! We are preoocupied with the game so we make the game the vehicle to doing our RL jobs (somehow). Queing production results in an automated factory churning out something. The only problem is that we don't want our security policy set by folks used to having clones...etc... Nuke'em then tell their clones we want to talk. Ahh sir, this is RL they don't have clones...... OH sh1t, I already pushed the damn button.....Hope they had Insurance. (aide walks away shaking head) we really got to replace this guy. 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage.
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.08.19 17:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 19/08/2004 18:00:55 Originally by: K'ang Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... My point exactly! We are preoocupied with the game so we make the game the vehicle to doing our RL jobs (somehow). Queing production results in an automated factory churning out something. The only problem is that we don't want our security policy set by folks used to having clones...etc... If you can get me a job that pays to play EVE, that will solve the problem....and i'll be your willing slave. Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.08.19 17:58:00 - [30] Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 19/08/2004 18:00:55 Originally by: K'ang Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle All I know is that I'm not being very productive right now at work because of this game... My point exactly! We are preoocupied with the game so we make the game the vehicle to doing our RL jobs (somehow). Queing production results in an automated factory churning out something. The only problem is that we don't want our security policy set by folks used to having clones...etc... If you can get me a job that pays to play EVE, that will solve the problem....and i'll be your willing slave. Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.08.19 18:23:00 - [31] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 19/08/2004 18:24:43 Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle If you can get me a job that pays to play EVE, that will solve the problem....and i'll be your willing slave. I'd link you to where you want to be, but it's against the EULA. Is there anything else I could do instead where you would be my willing slave? --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.08.19 18:23:00 - [32] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 19/08/2004 18:24:43 Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle If you can get me a job that pays to play EVE, that will solve the problem....and i'll be your willing slave. I'd link you to where you want to be, but it's against the EULA. Is there anything else I could do instead where you would be my willing slave? --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.08.19 19:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Kitten Hearder Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 19/08/2004 18:24:43 Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle If you can get me a job that pays to play EVE, that will solve the problem....and i'll be your willing slave. I'd link you to where you want to be, but it's against the EULA. Is there anything else I could do instead where you would be my willing slave? I'm easy...try me. Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
Kaleigh Doyle	Posted - 2004.08.19 19:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Kitten Hearder Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 19/08/2004 18:24:43 Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle If you can get me a job that pays to play EVE, that will solve the problem....and i'll be your willing slave. I'd link you to where you want to be, but it's against the EULA. Is there anything else I could do instead where you would be my willing slave? I'm easy...try me. Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.08.19 19:35:00 - [35] woot! --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.08.19 19:35:00 - [36] woot! --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Carca	Posted - 2004.08.19 22:36:00 - [37] While studying to be a therapist we often discussed what 'reality' is. I personally believe, based on studies i have read, that the only true reality is each individuals perception of the world around them. If it's real to someone, then it's their reality and the world in which they uniquely live. So compare someone who goes and works in a factory, doing as much overtime as possible and after a certain amount of time buys himself a motorbike which he uses solely for pleasure; to someone who mines in eve for the same amount of time to earn enough isk to buy himself a battleship. If the two people get the same amount of pleasure from the motorbike and the virtual battleship then isn't the isk spent on the BS as valuable to that individual as the RL money spent on the motorbike is to the other guy? I think the amount of RL money that people are willing to pay for virtual items on ebay backs this up. People will pay to improve their quality of life, and if that means hours of fun blowing stuff up in the virtual world of eve, then who's to say that virtual money doesn't have real value to some individuals.
Carca	Posted - 2004.08.19 22:36:00 - [38] While studying to be a therapist we often discussed what 'reality' is. I personally believe, based on studies i have read, that the only true reality is each individuals perception of the world around them. If it's real to someone, then it's their reality and the world in which they uniquely live. So compare someone who goes and works in a factory, doing as much overtime as possible and after a certain amount of time buys himself a motorbike which he uses solely for pleasure; to someone who mines in eve for the same amount of time to earn enough isk to buy himself a battleship. If the two people get the same amount of pleasure from the motorbike and the virtual battleship then isn't the isk spent on the BS as valuable to that individual as the RL money spent on the motorbike is to the other guy? I think the amount of RL money that people are willing to pay for virtual items on ebay backs this up. People will pay to improve their quality of life, and if that means hours of fun blowing stuff up in the virtual world of eve, then who's to say that virtual money doesn't have real value to some individuals.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.08.19 23:24:00 - [39] I agree with Carca! ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.08.19 23:24:00 - [40] I agree with Carca! ¼©¼ a history
GOKEN	Posted - 2004.08.19 23:49:00 - [41] that "professor" has too much time on his hands. these little surveys and reports are aload of betty swallocks.
GOKEN	Posted - 2004.08.19 23:49:00 - [42] that "professor" has too much time on his hands. these little surveys and reports are aload of betty swallocks.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.08.20 00:12:00 - [43] Personally, I try REALLY hard not to think about the time and effort I put into eve compared to RL. If CCP were suddenly to go out of business I would TBH prolly be put in something of a personal tailspin. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.08.20 00:12:00 - [44] Personally, I try REALLY hard not to think about the time and effort I put into eve compared to RL. If CCP were suddenly to go out of business I would TBH prolly be put in something of a personal tailspin. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Sosus Red	Posted - 2004.08.21 02:39:00 - [45] Originally by: Carca While studying to be a therapist we often discussed what 'reality' is. I personally believe, based on studies i have read, that the only true reality is each individuals perception of the world around them. If it's real to someone, then it's their reality and the world in which they uniquely live. So compare someone who goes and works in a factory, doing as much overtime as possible and after a certain amount of time buys himself a motorbike which he uses solely for pleasure; to someone who mines in eve for the same amount of time to earn enough isk to buy himself a battleship. If the two people get the same amount of pleasure from the motorbike and the virtual battleship then isn't the isk spent on the BS as valuable to that individual as the RL money spent on the motorbike is to the other guy? I think the amount of RL money that people are willing to pay for virtual items on ebay backs this up. People will pay to improve their quality of life, and if that means hours of fun blowing stuff up in the virtual world of eve, then who's to say that virtual money doesn't have real value to some individuals. Well said carca. no one I know irl seems to understand how I can enjoy sitting infront of my computer for 4 hours on some days in somehow enjoyable. O find being logged into eve as enjoyable as almost any activity in real life. Plus I save my real life money by having something that keeps me occupied so that I dont want to go out and spend it. -------------------------------------------- bullet got the wrong bloke...
Sosus Red	Posted - 2004.08.21 02:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Carca While studying to be a therapist we often discussed what 'reality' is. I personally believe, based on studies i have read, that the only true reality is each individuals perception of the world around them. If it's real to someone, then it's their reality and the world in which they uniquely live. So compare someone who goes and works in a factory, doing as much overtime as possible and after a certain amount of time buys himself a motorbike which he uses solely for pleasure; to someone who mines in eve for the same amount of time to earn enough isk to buy himself a battleship. If the two people get the same amount of pleasure from the motorbike and the virtual battleship then isn't the isk spent on the BS as valuable to that individual as the RL money spent on the motorbike is to the other guy? I think the amount of RL money that people are willing to pay for virtual items on ebay backs this up. People will pay to improve their quality of life, and if that means hours of fun blowing stuff up in the virtual world of eve, then who's to say that virtual money doesn't have real value to some individuals. Well said carca. no one I know irl seems to understand how I can enjoy sitting infront of my computer for 4 hours on some days in somehow enjoyable. O find being logged into eve as enjoyable as almost any activity in real life. Plus I save my real life money by having something that keeps me occupied so that I dont want to go out and spend it. -------------------------------------------- bullet got the wrong bloke...

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