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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:39:00 -
[1]
With more people joining every day, and more corporations springing to life, with more people getting standings and skills up so they can anchor highsec research POSes or getting offices for other purposes, office rents have been slowly but steadily increasing on average. It's not a MAJOR problem yet, you can find systems with half-decent station at reasonable prices... but still... it's already at best annoying, and at worst a real long-term problem.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Jana Clant
New Dawn Tribe New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:43:00 -
[2]
Same thing with moons, there's towers ALL OVER the place. Though at least you can destroy those.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:45:00 -
[3]
Yeah, it's only really an issue in 0.5 systems, it's quite easy to get standings that high... 0.6 systems are relatively ok, and most 0.7 systems are quite empty. But offices... ouch. _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:47:00 -
[4]
Maybe people should have offices in less populated space? The more population Eve has, the more it will eventually push into unpopulated space. It's not that Eve is overpopulated and that there are no offices, it's just that the population isn't distributed evenly enough.
No new offices needed.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Maybe people should have offices in less populated space? The more population Eve has, the more it will eventually push into unpopulated space. It's not that Eve is overpopulated and that there are no offices, it's just that the population isn't distributed evenly enough.
No new offices needed.
This. If people insist on staying huddled in the safe starter area, then of course they'll be overcrowded.
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Belmarduk
Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Malcanis
This. If people insist on staying huddled in the safe starter area, then of course they'll be overcrowded.
Tbh I must agree with this.The main problem with crowded empire systems is that people dont spread around. Greetings Belmarduk
Mainchar:
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Belmarduk
Originally by: Malcanis
This. If people insist on staying huddled in the safe starter area, then of course they'll be overcrowded.
Tbh I must agree with this.The main problem with crowded empire systems is that people dont spread around. Greetings Belmarduk
There's a lack of office space in low sec systems too. At least the ones that aren't infested.
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Kal'Kalagan
Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:01:00 -
[8]
This overcrowding will in time force more and more people away from hi sec and into low sec and 0.0. If anyhting CCP need to reduce the number of offices and stations in high sec empire to speedup this process.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:02:00 -
[9]
And what makes you entitled to a cheap office rent at any station you desire?
Limited numbers of office slots means that it was designed to be limited and competed over. If there are other corps there, then war dec them or hire mercs after them and tell them to give up the office or die.
Stop being a useless carebear and whining for everything without applying any effort or paying any cost. Disgusting.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kal'Kalagan This overcrowding will in time force more and more people away from hi sec and into low sec and 0.0. If anyhting CCP need to reduce the number of offices and stations in high sec empire to speedup this process.
I read the same type of post 5 years ago. Nothing has changed. Nothing will.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
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Verx Interis
Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:12:00 -
[11]
What should be done is all those semi-dead corp taking up space while doing nothing should lose their office slot. ---- Logins required for this post: 933191 |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kal'Kalagan This overcrowding will in time force more and more people away from hi sec and into low sec and 0.0. If anyhting CCP need to reduce the number of offices and stations in high sec empire to speedup this process.
I think there are quite a few pirates hoping for this so they can get easy carebear kills as they are forced into less secure space. I think they underestimate the risk-adverse nature of humanity, as I think those crowded areas will just get more and more populated, and only a few people will move, and only then to secure systems.
I think we will eventually see an increase in the number of slots, and possibly some more of the scientific and manufacturing facilities, as these will also need to match the growing population (failure to do so could see a massive inflation in prices as demand outstrips supply). CCP will probably increase the number of all of these things, but distribute them amongst further flung secure systems. They probably will amongst less secure systems as well, but they won't just add them to lowsec to force people into it, because that is not their philosophy. Every player has to be given the choice of what they want to do, so whatever happens in lowsec has to be balanced in highsec.
Now I know there will be flames from the lowsec and nullsec crowds following this, but you have to remember that you are playing a social game, with people who don't necessarily share the same worldview as you, or derive enjoyment from the same things. CCP do a very good job in balancing the game in light of the complexity it possesses.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ratchman
I think there are quite a few pirates hoping for this so they can get easy carebear kills
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari Lemuria Prospecting
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:32:00 -
[14]
Its part of the "Get more people into lower security space" initiative that y'all've been whining for.
I moved to 0.5, damn near empty.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vaal Erit And what makes you entitled to a cheap office rent at any station you desire?
Cheap at any station, certainly not.
But cheap at some station OR expensive at just about any specific station you desire, leaning more towards yes.
You can still get cheap offices at some stations, but others you can't get a slot even if prices are ridiculously high. And the more time passes, less cheap stations will exist, and most stations that are even remotely desirable would end up with such high pricetags that's not even funny, but still offices would be nearly impossible to come by there.
Oh, and slightly higher prices causing people to move away from an area ? Hello, are we playing the same game ? People barely move to another station IN THE SAME SYSTEM with much cheaper offices but "not exactly where they got used with" or "not exactly where they need it for something", let alone several systems away (those with a research POS might actually be unable to do so easily even if they wanted to), and don't even think about a lot farther away.
The whole point of not adjusting NPC manufacture and research slots upwards in empire space was the reasoning that you can easily set up a highsec POS to do the same things there. But if not only the moons get slowly occupied, but worse, office spaces get occupied too... well, let's just say it's a small fissure in that argument. I don't mind prices ramping up like mad, it's the lack of availability in spite of increased prices that's a problem... you'd think the NPCs would wisen up and build a couple more offices out of the spare space if the offices bring in so much moolah, wouldn't you say so ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ratchman
Originally by: Kal'Kalagan This overcrowding will in time force more and more people away from hi sec and into low sec and 0.0. If anyhting CCP need to reduce the number of offices and stations in high sec empire to speedup this process.
I think there are quite a few pirates hoping for this so they can get easy carebear kills as they are forced into less secure space. I think they underestimate the risk-adverse nature of humanity, as I think those crowded areas will just get more and more populated, and only a few people will move, and only then to secure systems.
I think we will eventually see an increase in the number of slots, and possibly some more of the scientific and manufacturing facilities, as these will also need to match the growing population (failure to do so could see a massive inflation in prices as demand outstrips supply). CCP will probably increase the number of all of these things, but distribute them amongst further flung secure systems. They probably will amongst less secure systems as well, but they won't just add them to lowsec to force people into it, because that is not their philosophy. Every player has to be given the choice of what they want to do, so whatever happens in lowsec has to be balanced in highsec.
Now I know there will be flames from the lowsec and nullsec crowds following this, but you have to remember that you are playing a social game, with people who don't necessarily share the same worldview as you, or derive enjoyment from the same things. CCP do a very good job in balancing the game in light of the complexity it possesses.
There are many high security systems and many low security systems that are almost empty 23/7.
People do tend to crowd to a few while leaving the other systems barren. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:59:00 -
[17]
stop living in hisec then.
Although it would be realistic to expect the npc factions to slowly build stations if they require them, or can make a profit from them, they're not required to build them just for you. Eventually it's gunna be too hard to live in the places you would most prefer and you will have to find another way. It's all part of eve.
do what ASCN did, when you run out of offices just build a new caldari station. ------
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:31:00 -
[18]
Are office rents capped? In theory their prices should rise with no limit. Eventually there will be a price point that will limit the market. Want that office in Jita? Fine, pay a few billion ISK/month for it. If you are that wealthy and that office is worth it then more power to you.
If the prices are capped then that undoes the market. Enough people have enough cash to pay expensive rents.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Dmian
Gallente Gallenterrorisme
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:47:00 -
[19]
Interesting topic Akita. I have to say that I thought about it myself, but I'm still unable to form an opinion about a possible solution.
I moved twice to different systems, looking for a nice station. There are very few stations with research facilities for people doing "independent" exploration, or researching blueprints in 0.5 systems. You may have 2 or 3 research stations total in a whole region.
And if you plan to live in 0.5 (maybe because you're just starting in the game, or you're running a very small industrial corp) it's very difficult to start a career in industry. Join a medium to large corp or be forced to do missions.
For example, in Scheenings, Verge Vendor, where I'm right now, I have to wait almost a month to research a blueprint. It's very difficult to live off industry at the beggining if you want to start an industrial corp.
But I'm not sure what will be the effect if more research slots and offices are created in Research oriented stations.
Does 0.5 space needs revitalization?
Of course, this from the view of new players wanting to go the industry route. Or players wanting to start from scratch. ----
Originally by: Anne M. Lindbergh There is no sin punished more implacably by nature than the sin of resistance to change
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Are office rents capped? In theory their prices should rise with no limit. Eventually there will be a price point that will limit the market. Want that office in Jita? Fine, pay a few billion ISK/month for it. If you are that wealthy and that office is worth it then more power to you. If the prices are capped then that undoes the market. Enough people have enough cash to pay expensive rents.
But wouldn't it be better if prices kept increasing yet MORE (temporary) offices would be available as prices increase (and only stay there if prices remain high) ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
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Seetesh
Caldari Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:04:00 -
[21]
I agree with you Akita their is a real shortage of offices right now they should increase the number of offices in lesser used systems maybe not caldari space due to conjestion.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:05:00 -
[22]
Begin shifting some level 4 agents to quite 0.5 space. Wspace will encourage some of those small pos owning corps out into unexplorred areas. Wlinks into settled but quite areas will do the same
Specifically the issue of offices either larger corps, less alt corps or drop the standing requirements for high sec poses would be a good start. But population concentrations are a big issues
Of course corparations can set HQ areas free of chrage its the 2nd office u get charged for i think
Over time ccp would be smart to do what they have done in aridia low sec surrounded by 5-10 high systems not connected to the main empire space ( sub factions having high sec protected systems like khandid, thukker , ammatar etc) could even add 5-10 systems in the middle of black rise.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:06:00 -
[23]
Begin shifting some level 4 agents to quite 0.5 space. Wspace will encourage some of those small pos owning corps out into unexplorred areas. Wlinks into settled but quite areas will do the same
Specifically the issue of offices either larger corps, less alt corps or drop the standing requirements for high sec poses would be a good start. But population concentrations are a big issues
Of course corparations can set HQ areas free of chrage its the 2nd office u get charged for i think
Over time ccp would be smart to do what they have done in aridia low sec surrounded by 5-10 high systems not connected to the main empire space ( sub factions having high sec protected systems like khandid, thukker , ammatar etc) could even add 5-10 systems in the middle of black rise.
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Inmaculada Divinity
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:24:00 -
[24]
We've anchored a pos in a 0.5 system which is virtually empty and offices are 10k isk per month. That said, you do have to go through a 0.3 to actually get to it so this explains a number of things.
Shocking, but most bears won't even step into anything under a 0.5. We took that decision because the location was ideal, offices were cheap, ice near by and it was pretty empty.
We could have spent more time, money on another place and hauling fuel but the location (even via low sec) far outweighed it.
tl;dr causing people to spread out and venture further can't be a bad thing, even if into/via low sec.
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meat vapour
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:22:00 -
[25]
well well well, if it's not yet another "look at me! look at me! gimmie attention" akita t thread.... |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: TraininVain on 24/03/2009 12:34:55 Interesting.
I wonder if people will be forced into low secs by this.
I think you're right in the long-long term but I also think there's loads of unfashionable space people can move to before EVE is full up and I'm not even talking low sec.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Verx Interis What should be done is all those semi-dead corp taking up space while doing nothing should lose their office slot.
If you don't pay rent for more than a month, this already happens. Paying rent is not automated - someone always has to actively pay once per month. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:46:00 -
[28]
My office, which I've rented for over 4 continuous years, is in (contiguous) highsec, and the rent is only 200k. It reached almost a million once, in 4 years. It's actually been on the way down for the last year or so.
Office rents in some very selected systems, might be on the way up, what we are seeing though, is people with less 'extra' offices. Once upon a time it was common for people to have dozens of offices, because, hell why not, the very nature of the system means that the people that need the most get them.
I think the number of offices per station is more than fine, the existing amount already supports Jita....
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Maybe people should have offices in less populated space? The more population Eve has, the more it will eventually push into unpopulated space. It's not that Eve is overpopulated and that there are no offices, it's just that the population isn't distributed evenly enough.
No new offices needed.
This. If people insist on staying huddled in the safe starter area, then of course they'll be overcrowded.
Agreed. If you are in a populated area, then move out. There's so much unused space out there, geez.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:53:00 -
[30]
If one herd has already been where you are supposed to eat your grass, you have to stop following them and find your own path.
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