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karesuto
Pacific Gamers Industries
0
   |
Posted - 2012.05.01 08:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
All day from downtime last night some bugger has been underr cutting all my sales by a single isk >.<. I know this is apart of eve but come on a single isk is a pain in the arse.
If you are going to do it, do it right. I drop my prices over this guy by around 100,000 isk but he still drops by 1
bit of a run down
I placed some items up for 4.7 mil this person whent 4.699.99, I droped to 4.6 they went 4.599.999 and so forth.
Gaa one dam isk |
Tarik ThunderStorm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 08:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Welcome to but a taste of market pvp.
You should just do it back. But by 0.01 isk. Until one of you gets too tired to update!
 |
Chevalleis
The Legendary Conquest
113
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why would you want to lose 100,000 in profits instead of 1 ISK? |
karesuto
Pacific Gamers Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chevalleis wrote:Why would you want to lose 100,000 in profits instead of 1 ISK?
I tried to be the better man, but If this is the way it is then this is war ! |
Laveaolous
Paragon Fury
Tactical Narcotics Team
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
There are plently of reasons to undercut someone significantly. however you do not seem to following any I know.
Are you trying to extract the least ISK from this, or following some strategy your post is failing to allude to? Your 'single isk is a pain in the arse' reasoning alone doesn't seem like a good motive to sacrifice margin. |
Aina Sasaki
Red Core
Paradigm Shift Alliance
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
0.01 ISKers are a fact of life, unfortunately. My way of dealing with them is, in short, to not deal with them at all. I've got bigger fish to fry and my trade brings in enough daily revenue to satisfy my growth plans. Until I see my profits take a serious dip, I won't pay them any mind.
If I was going to fight them however, i'd opt for the deep undercut approach just as I did in the past in another game. Ultimately,the winner of that battle is the one who is more willing to accept razor-thin profit margins than the other guy. However, this technique is best done if you can have both the best buy and best sell order. Otherwise... it can turn into a serious disaster.
Just my thoughts. :)
- Rei |
Araviel
Spiritus Draconis
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
unless your plan is to push him down in order to buy him up then there is no reason to undercut whit more than 0.1isk |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
99
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mouse wheel scrolling ftw!
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
Lt Angus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
So just do it for him and undercut 199,999.99 each time. Simples  |
Rengerel en Distel
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
If your goal in buying or selling items is to make a profit, how does it make sense then to use any other method than 0.01 isk? If you're trying to sell something, and you drop your price by 100k, you're just giving away 100k. If you're buying something, and raise your bid 100k, again, you're just giving away 100k. The guy is doing you a favor by not undercutting by more.
Don't assume bad intent, when stupidity is the much more likely cause. |
Ayn Randy
Cause For Concern
T A B O O
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
The way i see it, no one person deserves to be the top order! Instead, i see people just taking turns 0.01 isking their order to the top and sharing the wealth. The people who drop by bigger amounts just ruin it for themselves and everybody else.
In jita, consumers dont wait until a better price comes up to buy or sell an item, they will just buy or sell at any price. And as traders, we should be looking to profit out of that.
If theres profit to be made it will be made, whether its 10 isk or 10million isk, if your going to be the person who undercuts someone by a huge amount, dont be upset when they all undercut you by 0.01 isk. they are the ones who are cursing you for ruining everyone elses and your own profit!
|
Aina Sasaki
Red Core
Paradigm Shift Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ayn Randy wrote:The way i see it, no one person deserves to be the top order! Instead, i see people just taking turns 0.01 isking their order to the top and sharing the wealth. The people who drop by bigger amounts just ruin it for themselves and everybody else.
In jita, consumers dont wait until a better price comes up to buy or sell an item, they will just buy or sell at any price. And as traders, we should be looking to profit out of that.
If theres profit to be made it will be made, whether its 10 isk or 10million isk, if your going to be the person who undercuts someone by a huge amount, dont be upset when they all undercut you by 0.01 isk. they are the ones who are cursing you for ruining everyone elses and your own profit!
In other words... what we have on the markets between traders is an unofficial cartel of 0.01 undercutting.
I don't like cartels very much. I'm not really sure anyone does, to be honest.
- Rei |
Johnny Frecko
Fruidian Logic
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 12:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
what is it with people's opinions "cartels"?
Cartel is several large suppliers working together to prevent competition.
You have a trader cartel just like you have an incursions cartel.
In other words;
Traders don't work together to maximize their personal profits. they do *sometimes*.
you might aswell blame pvpers for using T3 cruisers.
Not all of us can use them, Might aswell tell them "if you're gonna pvp, you better pvp right! in a frigate"
else you'll have a cartel of T3 cruiser pilots. |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
188
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 12:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
What i do is drop my order down in steps till i make no profit. When he 0.1's me i just move my order above his order. I let him and the people who folllow get brought for no profit. He can be the top order but i kill his profit and just wait for the market to bounce back. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
719
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 12:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
I prefer when they undercut by this 1ISK or 0.01 ISK. |
enterprisePSI
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
if the first order is 1 000 000 i click on modify order, type 1 000 000 then mouse wheel scroll down a bit. Just 0.01 
The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one.
-«enterprise-psi |
Ayn Randy
Cause For Concern
T A B O O
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
enterprisePSI wrote:if the first order is 1 000 000 i click on modify order, type 1 000 000 then mouse wheel scroll down a bit. Just 0.01
WTF, just found out i can do that :D... Happiest person ever now!
/goes and updates all orders |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ayn Randy wrote:enterprisePSI wrote:if the first order is 1 000 000 i click on modify order, type 1 000 000 then mouse wheel scroll down a bit. Just 0.01 WTF, just found out i can do that :D... Happiest person ever now! /goes and updates all orders
Saves a ton of time
If there is such a thing as a "greifer" in competitive markets its the guys that change the price by other amounts and make me take more timei and risk mistakes by changing the price in odd ways.
But, of course their goal is to get me to go away and leave the market to them so there is some sense in them making it a pain for me. But it is more work for them too and they need to decide whether the effort is worth the higher chance of getting me to leave (or on the other hand risking that I crash the markets to spite them for making me use so many key strokes instead of a simple mouse wheel roll)
ALSO... as soon as you comem to grips with the idea that it is a live market where people present get the sales first, the easy it will be to mentally handle not getting the trades unless the market demand trades through your price and order. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
High Light, Folders, Mouse wheel..
Market combo of death..
Waiting for Corporate order highlight and cancel function.. then all your humans are belongs to da bots..
Who needs bots when you have hundreds of humans micromanaging their orders..
Solution make orders more sane, remove the upper cap on contracts and outstanding orders.
Repeating the mantra since 2004. |
Debiru
Flashpoint Industries
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
To OP;
Something you suggest happened a few weeks ago on the Hurricane market in Dodixie. In the span of around 40 hours prices went from 48 million per Cane to 44.3 million. Sure, the undercutter made a few profits in that time, but all he did was soil the market for himself for two weeks (the prices just now came back up). Not only did everyone else's profit go down, but his did as well. Canes went from 5.5m profit to 435k profit. That's the result of undercutting 100,000 ISK every time. 0.01 ISK saves you and every other industrialist money. Undercutting huge amounts for the reason "0.01 ISK undercuts are gay" just shows how poorly you know about market and finance. Stop complaining about a system that preserves good profit margins for yourself to take advantage of. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
663
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
karesuto wrote:All day from downtime last night some bugger has been underr cutting all my sales by a single isk >.<.
If it's noticeable for over a 12 hour period it's most likely a bot. Price changes around 3-5 minutes after your alteration without fail. Report it. I've found about 5 the past few months.
"Behold, as a wild ass in the desert, go I forth to my work." - Gurney Halleck |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
663
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Chevalleis wrote:Why would you want to lose 100,000 in profits instead of 1 ISK?
THAT happens all the time with larger T2 ships. They will INDEED lower by a few MILLION at a time.
Now I'm real suspicious of most of the posters in this thread. Lots of names and Corps not seen by me and I'm a forum jezebel.
"Behold, as a wild ass in the desert, go I forth to my work." - Gurney Halleck |
DReadEyE
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Debiru wrote:To OP;
Something you suggest happened a few weeks ago on the Hurricane market in Dodixie. In the span of around 40 hours prices went from 48 million per Cane to 44.3 million. Sure, the undercutter made a few profits in that time, but all he did was soil the market for himself for two weeks (the prices just now came back up). Not only did everyone else's profit go down, but his did as well. Canes went from 5.5m profit to 435k profit. That's the result of undercutting 100,000 ISK every time. 0.01 ISK saves you and every other industrialist money. Undercutting huge amounts for the reason "0.01 ISK undercuts are gay" just shows how poorly you know about market and finance. Stop complaining about a system that preserves good profit margins for yourself to take advantage of.
ha ha i remember that. Same thing happened with the drakes, unless he built them i guess theres no profit.
OP:
How many times did you undercut him with 100k ? why didnt you just buy the other guys stuff and kept prizes on top if you had cut him with 100k several times, you should have been able to make a profit by buying hes stuff - just saying! |
Tesal
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Debiru wrote:To OP;
Something you suggest happened a few weeks ago on the Hurricane market in Dodixie. In the span of around 40 hours prices went from 48 million per Cane to 44.3 million. Sure, the undercutter made a few profits in that time, but all he did was soil the market for himself for two weeks (the prices just now came back up). Not only did everyone else's profit go down, but his did as well. Canes went from 5.5m profit to 435k profit. That's the result of undercutting 100,000 ISK every time. 0.01 ISK saves you and every other industrialist money. Undercutting huge amounts for the reason "0.01 ISK undercuts are gay" just shows how poorly you know about market and finance. Stop complaining about a system that preserves good profit margins for yourself to take advantage of.
Thats how you force people out of the market. They say "435k profit on a cane isn't enough, I am going elsewhere to get my sales". When the price comes back there are that many fewer .01 iskers to deal with. Often you can cut it down to 2 or 3 people in competition, down from 10 or 12, which is much more manageable. If you take the long view it makes perfect sense to destroy profit margins every now and then and make people trade elsewhere.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
676
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tesal wrote: If you take the long view it makes perfect sense to destroy profit margins every now and then and make people trade elsewhere.
......and in the end, all items end up at discount in freaking Jita.
Too bad the Burn could not continue.
"Behold, as a wild ass in the desert, go I forth to my work." - Gurney Halleck |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
229
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Too bad the Burn could not continue.
That's funny, you seemed like such a hater elsewhere. |
enterprisePSI
98
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
the minerals for these hurricanes were mined therefore free. Duh
The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one.
-«enterprise-psi |
Eddie Laydon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
karesuto wrote:
I drop my prices over this guy by around 100,000 isk but he still drops by 1
you're a moron |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
695
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 00:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Too bad the Burn could not continue. That's funny, you seemed like such a hater elsewhere.
Musta been someone else. I've wanted Jita GONE for years.
"Behold, as a wild ass in the desert, go I forth to my work." - Gurney Halleck |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Funny that people manually do the work of a bot and call it the right way |
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