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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.03.27 20:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 27/03/2009 20:48:45
A) The lemming technique?
B) Buy all the lowered orders and recover the high decent-margin price?
C) Buy 1item from each order to know who the lemmings are, then send evemails and convince them all to set previous price again?
D) Ragequit (send some hate mails) and stop trading this product?
E) others?
I encourage everyone not to do the "A". Think twice. You suddenly losing 20% of your profits just cause this idiot decided to undercut by so much? Wait some hours and their items will be sold, letting you get decent isk again.
It's a matter of time. YOU and only YOU decide your margins.
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Ulecese
Ihatalo Research and Development
Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2009.03.27 20:57:00 -
[2]
f) run for the hills
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IHATALO CARTEL'S IGB T2 SHOP - Tech2 IGB shop
EVE GAMING - API Secure IGB |
Barton Foley
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Posted - 2009.03.27 20:57:00 -
[3]
F) Run to MD and make a thread about it because the lemming effect ticks you off.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.03.27 20:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 27/03/2009 20:58:27
Diversify.
I have to admit though, whine goes well with cheese. 
Black Sun Empire |
Amrumm
Rhetorical Devices
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Posted - 2009.03.27 21:22:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Ms Delerium
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 27/03/2009 20:48:45
C) Buy 1item from each order to know who the lemmings are, then send evemails and convince them all to set previous price again?
In case anyone does not know yet: C does not work. You buy orders will always be serviced from the lowest sell order, and that seller will have a chuckle about your n00bness (if he bothers to keep track of that much detail).
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.03.27 21:28:00 -
[6]
Buy his **** and refine it, then sell the minerals back to him so he can do it again.
Or if I really think I'm right and have the isk I will buy all the items and relist them.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.27 21:38:00 -
[7]
Everyone picks A.
People don't (generally) pick B because they know the prices they are asking for (if someone can make a huge cut in profits) are too exorbinant to maintain a steady flow of customers, plus anything with a large profit margin will attract more product, and crash the price below it's usual sell price.
C,, oh dear C. Learn how the market works.
D, heh. That's what I hope people do.
You missed out E: "Come to the forums and cry about people crashing prices"
And F: Hey, if it's so annoying, let their order sell out.
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2009.03.27 22:21:00 -
[8]
A. Everyone does A.
B. Everyone wants to do B but is scared to do so.
C. Can be done over time - but it gives out free intel if you contact them. Instead find some other way to grief them outta the game.
D. That is why the "tard" crashed the price in the first place. He wins!
E. Diversify.
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Challis
Caldari
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.03.27 22:30:00 -
[9]
First step is either, wait untill he sells all his things.
or if there isent a lot of stuff and i know i can sell it, i buy it fast before lemmings start showing up.
When there is too much things to buy i just wait, lemmings show up, and i have no choice but to follow, get rid of my stock and search something else thats more profitable.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.27 23:23:00 -
[10]
Quote:
C. Can be done over time - but it gives out free intel if you contact them. Instead find some other way to grief them outta the game.
If by that you mean watching the market close enough to buy 1 unit whenever someone undercuts on the market and building a profile of who is in that market, sure that works.
But you *cannot* selectively buy from orders on the market. When you right-click an order and say "buy this", you're actually buying from the cheapest sell-order at the price the order you right-clicked on set.
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Solisk
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Posted - 2009.03.27 23:58:00 -
[11]
There are always threads concerning market manipulation in the form of someone crashing the market or driving up prices. They generally aren't very productive, as you can see if you follow the forums fairly regularly.
One thing I would like to say is that either one is a valid form of business which so many people just don't realize. Someone crashing your market? It sucks, for you. But have you ever tried it? It's an extremely effective way to not only eliminate the weaker competition in a competitive product, but also a way for you to easily buy up a fair amount of stock at lower-than-usual prices due to the lemming effect.
These techniques aren't for all traders, of course. You have to be comfortable in your market, have the capital, and have the expertise to exercise them properly. The only way you can protect yourself against being subject to these techniques are to first diversify the amount of markets you are invested in and to pay attention as to when an item is being manipulated so you can either profit from the character doing it, or simply leave the market as it is while focusing on your other investments.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.28 00:29:00 -
[12]
MD is pretty hilarious sometimes.
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Maven Deltor
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Posted - 2009.03.28 01:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Maven Deltor on 28/03/2009 01:21:57
I storm off to my room, throw myself on my bed and scream into my pillow till I'm red in the face. Later I write in my journal about how no one understands me.
In seriousness, these people aren't idiots. They feel your price is too high, and you've left room to undercut you and still make a profit. They are incredibly smart to scout out such markets and help them re-adjust from your monopoly. They usually leave soon as balance has been reached, so don't worry, you can price gouge again next week.
edited out the redundancy.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.03.28 02:16:00 -
[14]
I respond to these threads by loading up a freighter with something I happen to be trading, getting in touch with my locater agent and going to the OP's location to seriously depress a little bit of his market. Sure, odds are it was a completely futile gesture and the only thing I've really accomplished is wasting a bunch of trader's time because I was feeling whiny but then, what better way to capture the essence of these threads?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.03.28 02:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
C) Buy 1item from each order to know who the lemmings are, then send evemails and convince them all to set previous price again?
In all seriousness though, I hope you realize that you can't buy from more than one order. You always buy from the lowest priced order. If you tell your client to buy a higher priced one all that happens is you buy from the lowest one, except you give him more than his asking price.
Doing that won't get you any name other than the lowest guy's. More importantly, you're not going to convince them to adjust their prices. They either did it for a good reason (yes, there are good reasons to crash markets) or than an idiot; either way you're not going to convince them to change their ways.
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Jason Marshall
Gallente
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.28 02:41:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 28/03/2009 02:46:09
I like how people always assume that when people undercut by a certain amount it is because that person must be a 'tard'. I've done it to **** people off, and to cause market instability when i was running low on supply. (Yes, sell supply to get a better deal when someone you suspect of having a great supply dumps his stock to try and save his margins.)
Your an idiot to think, that anyone would adjust there strategy to benefit you.
Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
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Ender2006
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2009.03.28 03:56:00 -
[17]
I also suggest diversify and lots of market research to know where to ship products to when this occurs.
However, I ahve to disagree with everyone's panning of option C.
Usually I find that I am only competing with 1 or 2 sellers in a market for a specific item. If they bother to contact me I'm usually amiable to working out some sort of profit share. This has happened maybe 10-12 times in my trading history. so although not very common its certainly out there.
usually one of three things works:
1.) I'll sell them all my modules for a decent cut and offer a non-compete for a week or so
2.) we both raise prices and continue to isk war from there
3.) we actually agree to raise prices and sell in small blocks one after each other. 20 units or so each for instance
Some markets are much too crowded for this too last for long though... :)
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Arpad Elo
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Posted - 2009.03.29 05:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 05:41:25
Originally by: Ms Delerium
A) The lemming technique?
:) What's the lemming technique?
My solution is just to keep lowering my price until it sells, though.
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Mari Katarin
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Posted - 2009.03.29 06:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Arpad Elo
:) What's the lemming technique?
My solution is just to keep lowering my price until it sells, though.
The first rule of the lemming technique is we don't talk about the lemming technique. That said, you got it down pat.
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Arpad Elo
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Posted - 2009.03.29 06:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mari Katarin
The first rule of the lemming technique is we don't talk about the lemming technique. That said, you got it down pat.
I had a feeling that that was it, ty. I just haven't focused much on market stuff in my first few days here... came because someone was ****ing on my orders and I wanted to know if they'd put up a whine in the forums... Unfortunately they hadn't. 
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Beth Korai
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Posted - 2009.03.29 07:22:00 -
[21]
What to do when a "tard" crashes the market?
Get the f*** over it, learn to participate in a market economy, and move the frig on...
Oh, or you can ask for a handout from whoever runs your country...
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Jukhtress Mein
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Posted - 2009.03.29 15:38:00 -
[22]
What if selling lower requires you to sell below your cost price? As in, in the case where your stock is made up of stock bought from others at normal market prices and you relisted them higher.
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Ji Sama
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Posted - 2009.03.29 16:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jukhtress Mein
What if selling lower requires you to sell below your cost price? As in, in the case where your stock is made up of stock bought from others at normal market prices and you relisted them higher.
then you did it wrong, dont sell at a loss, unless your bailing out...
This is a signature not related to EVE |
Imertu Solientai
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.29 16:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jukhtress Mein
What if selling lower requires you to sell below your cost price? As in, in the case where your stock is made up of stock bought from others at normal market prices and you relisted them higher.
Then you either sell your stock at a higher price, or buy up the competition, reprocess, sell, then sell yours at a higher price
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Armoured C
Gallente
Armoured Investments
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Posted - 2009.03.29 17:12:00 -
[25]
that time someone did this with a item that roughly sells for 900-950 k and it went down to about 820k i brought all of them up and waited for 3 days and then make and sold them all for juicy profit
WARNING: ANGRY AND LOOKING FOR BLOOD
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Black Mack
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Posted - 2009.03.30 09:06:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Black Mack on 30/03/2009 09:07:02
Edited by: Black Mack on 30/03/2009 09:06:41
I have a general rule that if someone undercuts the current price by at least 10%, I buy them and re-list out of principle. I don't want to take the risk that lemmings will hop on it. This is currently happening to one of my favorite items, unfortunately, and the sell orders are far too large to buy out or wait out... I figure I'd rather take a 30% hit to my profits today then sit on my items for a week. Hopefully the largest of the sell orders will eventually be filled, and I can manipulate the market back up to where it should be.
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CrazyArsed Monkey
Minmatar
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2009.03.30 12:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 27/03/2009 20:58:27
Diversify.
I have to admit though, whine goes well with cheese.
LMAO ;) nice one
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Relan Methanis
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Posted - 2009.03.30 12:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jukhtress Mein
What if selling lower requires you to sell below your cost price? As in, in the case where your stock is made up of stock bought from others at normal market prices and you relisted them higher.
What I usually do is place a long-standing buy order for an amount that will still yield me at least a marginal profit, and wait for the lower-priced items to dry up (which they will). This method is not ideal for a quick sell, obviously, but it saves you from taking a loss.
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Relan Methanis
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Posted - 2009.03.30 13:02:00 -
[29]
I thought I might also add that, in certain circumstances, the low-sellers typically do not make enough profit to make it worth sustaining their business in any one particular commodity, and usually trade in other goods once they can afford to. One of the often overlooked benefits of this is that the lower selling prices and higher buying prices tend to drive up both supply and demand for a short amount of time, which is good for everyone, if you are patient enough for said low-sellers to leave your sector of the market.
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.30 16:35:00 -
[30]
It amazes me how the Traders around here assume stupidity from everyone who isn't trading on a 23/7 basis. Manufactuing is a different game all together. While the trader looks at how they can squeeze the most profit margin out of buying an item and selling it for more, the industrialist aquires components as cheaply as possible and produces an item that cost them x isk to produce. Industrialists want a good profit just like anyone but being producers, don't have as much gametime to try to milk the market for a few isk. We have our profit when we put the item up. If you can make a profit by reselling it, good for you. I don't see how that makes me an idiot.
Another thing... You arent considering the importance of capital. Most of those cheap sell orders are simply an attempt to raise capital quickly. Maybe they have an order of Ore/Components/whatever coming in.
I typically do it like this:
1)Make an item that is being bought at prices that will give me a good profit to produce.
2) upon completion, I undercut the sell price by a good amount. (depends on some variables) I need to sell my items quickly. Since traders often use the 1isk trick it forces manufactures to undercut even more to unload quickly. I don't have time to put items up only to see the next day I havent sold any because some guy undercut me by 1 isk.
For me to make isk I need more isk to buy more components to produce more items. I realize I could overproduce a certain item and force prices down to the point I don't make a profit but thats why you need to analyze the market regularly and look for items where you will have the higest profit margin. Those items are not going to be overproduced when yours hit the market. If I flood the market I move on to something else and leave the mess for the traders to clean up. (Thats you)
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