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Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 12:25:00 - [1] I'd like to know how to do the lemming well. i.e. how to determine how to cut prices, how rapidly, etc. I have a feeling I'm probably going to have to put my thoughts out and ask for comments, but I'd prefer to read yours first if that's ok. :)
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.29 12:53:00 - [2] dont do the lemming... This is a signature not related to EVE
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.03.29 12:58:00 - [3] Originally by: wikipedia While many people believe that lemmings commit mass suicide when they migrate, this is not the case. Driven by strong biological urges, they will migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat. On occasion, and particularly in the case of the Norway lemmings in Scandinavia, large migrating groups will reach a cliff overlooking the ocean. They will stop until the urge to press on causes them to jump off the cliff and start swimming, sometimes to exhaustion and death. Lemmings are also often pushed into the sea as more and more lemmings arrive at the shore. Originally by: wikipedia Due to their association with this odd behavior, lemming suicide is a frequently-used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences. Source
Unbowed Ash Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.03.29 13:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Arpad Elo I'd like to know how to do the lemming well. i.e. how to determine how to cut prices, how rapidly, etc. I have a feeling I'm probably going to have to put my thoughts out and ask for comments, but I'd prefer to read yours first if that's ok. :) Roll Death Knight - have fun.
Joss Sparq Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.29 14:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Unbowed Ash Originally by: Arpad Elo I'd like to know how to do the lemming well. i.e. how to determine how to cut prices, how rapidly, etc. I have a feeling I'm probably going to have to put my thoughts out and ask for comments, but I'd prefer to read yours first if that's ok. :) Roll Death Knight - have fun. Where I am currently, they (currently) call them Warrior Priests ... Ironclaw & Dark Crag! Represent! * I'd like to joke about having to shower to feel clean again after that, but fact of the matter is they don't make water hot enough
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 14:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 14:51:13 Originally by: wikipedia While many people believe that lemmings commit mass suicide when they migrate, this is not the case. Yeah I know.
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 14:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Joss Sparq * I'd like to joke about having to shower to feel clean again after that, but fact of the matter is they don't make water hot enough Sure they do, if the water is hot enough you can just peel off your skin afterwards.
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:16:00 - [8] Alright, I can tell that I haven't put out enough effort to get input from our brighter posters, so I'll take the first step here. Sorry about that. Keep in mind I haven't taken economics past like age 17 so I'm doing the best I can but I'll probably make mistakes. Bear with me. *One reason I think studying modern economics (probably the most common type of economic study?) isn't really great here is because of how inefficient the markets in Eve are. I've talked to my buddy about this and while we agree that it seems silly, he believes that it makes for a better game than efficient markets, which is kinda cool... actually, a discussion on this would be neat too. Case Study: I'm selling skill books at a mission hub. Two jumps away it's selling at 45k. I decide to charge 60k per book for the 4 jumps, as I feel that it's reasonable to ask an individual to pay that amount for that amount of saving. I figure that's charging about 450,000 isk/hr (2 min jumps, completely guessing here), which is enough of a value that people should pay it willingly. On the other hand, I'm buying 100 of the books, and I'm buying 5 books, so my profit is ~30kk before expenses... which is really good for me. The costs are the transport time, the time watching the markets, and the time spent making this inevitable post. :) I only have 5 orders available. Terms: Ph - high price between competitors Pl - low price P - a price Q - a quantity Qh Ql - you get it. E - market equilibrium D - discount Scenario 1: A person competes with me Q7 D40% (vs my Q100). I just wait a day and let him sell. I feel that this exposes me to exploitation as my competitors could just put small quantities out there at prices that are lower than mine in order to dissuade me from competing. Scenario 1.5: I let a guy sell one unit at like a 2% discount to my price... since I'd have to cut 100x his discount, effectively, in order to compete, which isn't really worth it. Scenario 2: A person competes with me at Q80 P104.99k. I cut to 95k. This repeats every 12 hrs until I cut to 55k (not sure what will end up happening, but this is my current situation). Now for the justification for my "quick" cuts in Scenario 2: I know that P is way higher than E right now, because I think that the profit that I'm charging is probably too much for the time and risk involved. Since I'm clearly willing to sell at a lower price, I cut it by a price that I feel that he MIGHT be uncomfortable selling at, and just keep slashing as he shows that he is interested in selling at a continuously lower price (which I agree is still a good price). As the drop continues, while this is still profitable, I'm continuing to cut partially in order to release some of my order slots. My quick cuts are also motivated by me not wanting to babysit my orders (decreases isk/hr, and it's boring). FWIW I chose cuts of 10k because I have 10 fingers (shuddup) and because K is my favourite letter. I'm still new at "trading". An observation: I see quite a few sales over market and I've contacted some of the people and found out that they weren't spite-ordering, they just listed by jumps and bought the first reasonable price without really looking through them. Kinda neat. Discussion: a) I'm curious about how fast I should cut price. Should I go from 105 to maybe 60 instead when I get Q80 at 104.99? Obviously if the volume is lower I can maybe cut a little more slowly but if the volume is that high then I think I have a serious competitor so I can kinda race him for E since I know we'll both get there. The slower the reduction in price, the more profit is made in the meantime... the main issue is that I'm splitting with him and I'm sleeping during prime time so he's getting most of the profit as he adjusts during a good time of day. b) When to switch prices (times of week)? c) Should I cut? FWIW I don't see that I have a choice, when I'm pricing way over E.
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:19:00 - [9] Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 15:24:20 Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 15:22:37 More discussion: d) Discussion of response to different Q's and D's. Discussion of competitors continuously competing with slight D's and low Q's but replenishing Q's. This would give them a cost edge in terms of broker fees for changing prices if I competed in the same manner that I would compete with a greater Q (and keep in mind that can make one bulk purchase and then list slowly, so I don't necessarily have a transportation advantage over him). Alright, that's all I can think of for now, thanks. edit: quick note on spite ordering (buying at higher than lowest price). Yeah, I realize that doesn't work, but I also realize that some people don't realize this. edit: I feel that heavier cuts will cause him to be more selective about how often and when he choses to time his cuts, which should give me the most time with the lowest price at each step (that is possible for me, not necessarily longest time that is possible for each of us).
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Arpad Elo Alright, I can tell that I haven't put out enough effort to get input from our brighter posters! *BIG SNIP* that made me feel bad about myself imho This is a signature not related to EVE
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:35:00 - [11] oki ill bite even though im not bright... i like your method and model btw.. makes for a good debate. 1: undercut him with a smaller Q (like 6 perhaps) at 1%D, keep doing that when he undercuts you... when you hit your sweet spot BO... Or. ignore him as you say let him sell.. etc.. ill not get into the specifics of what exactly i do, and tbh its very circumstantial.. (1.5 if a guy sells one unit at 2% i wouldnt normally notice it, let him sell it... but then again i deal in large quantities...) i am not saying this is the way, i am saying what i normally do... if you have hit 50% of market price, i would BO... but only if the item moved enough daily and or i was sure i could get it to another hub where it would sell.. its all about roi imo! is this worth your time? This is a signature not related to EVE
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:41:00 - [12] A: i have a hard time understanding this case... but dont undercut someone immediently with 50% market value.. thats just stupid... i would BO almost at an instance... i manipulate the market and sell/buy from market for an undisclosed amount of time, i then pick up all orders / restock hubs for an undisclosed amount of time... i then rinse and repeat... if the competetion is to big, perhaps you should find something else to sell? get out while you can? B: i specialize in monopoly, that way you get rid of alot of the undercutting. how i do this i wont tell you :D C: if you can sell at 50% mark up and still make a decent roi (again its only you that can decide this) i would perhaps do it. if it wasnt my own market... but you have to decide are you in this for the long or the short ride? This is a signature not related to EVE
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:43:00 - [13] Edited by: Ji Sama on 29/03/2009 15:46:15 D: sometimes it plays out well to show some muscle.. show the small time traders that your a shark and you control these waters. most of the time, i dont get undercut, i get the casual merchant trying to hide 1 or 2 items inside my monopoly.. i then undercut by 0.01 on all prices... that usually make them sell to me at great discount or let it stay at the original price, ie avoiding a price war, and still beeing lowest.. This is a signature not related to EVE
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:48:00 - [14] Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 15:56:43 Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 15:54:54 "undercut him with a smaller Q (like 6 perhaps) at 1%D, keep doing that when he undercuts you... when you hit your sweet spot BO..." The idea of pushing someone to a buyout price is cool. I'm not sure how that would work as there's basically infinite supply in this case, but ... definitely neat idea. Also, competing with smaller Q is kinda akward as it would cause me to pay fees to cancel my existing inventory, or otherwise lead to inefficiency when you have something like a single unit left, you go to bed, sell it and miss some orders, although I guess if you priced just barely over your low Q order, you would sell that item first, so that's a work-around that should be good there. "(Scen A) i have a hard time understanding this case... but dont undercut someone immediently with 50% market value.. thats just stupid... i would BO almost at an instance..." If you were to do that, then I could just purchase more books and repeat what I just did... there's infinite supply. I guess this would be "more stupid" in spots where I was dealing in other type of good that you had to mfgr or something (like ammo?).
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.29 15:57:00 - [15] Edited by: Ji Sama on 29/03/2009 15:58:22 you dont have all your stock on the market... keep reserves for cases like these... yea the book case is a different matter... i agree.. i dont deal with that kind of inventory. This is a signature not related to EVE
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.29 16:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 16:03:32 I'm ninja editing the post right above yours a few times to reply to all your stuff. Thanks for your help man. :) edit: "you dont have all your stock on the market... keep reserves for cases like these..." Yeah... <--- nub. edit again: "oki ill bite even though im not bright..." I lol'd at this. :)
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.03.29 17:26:00 - [17] Ok, first I didn't read all of this, but it appears to me that you are way over thinking all this. You only need to be .01 isk under the competition to win the sale IF they are in your station. If they are not in your station, it doesn't matter. Most people are lazy and will not travel to another station to save a million isk, much less a few thousand. Set your prices where you make a profit margin that you feel confortable with. And expand your product line! Follow the KISS method! Keep It Simple Stupid In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream!
Yelan Zhou Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.30 04:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Yelan Zhou on 30/03/2009 04:23:57 Originally by: Lord Zarcam Ok, first I didn't read all of this, but it appears to me that you are way over thinking all this. You only need to be .01 isk under the competition to win the sale IF they are in your station. If they are not in your station, it doesn't matter. Most people are lazy and will not travel to another station to save a million isk, much less a few thousand. Set your prices where you make a profit margin that you feel confortable with. And expand your product line! Follow the KISS method! Keep It Simple Stupid You did not read only all of this, it appears to me you did not read the op also.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2009.03.30 05:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Arpad Elo Edited by: Arpad Elo on 29/03/2009 15:58:21 "undercut him with a smaller Q (like 6 perhaps) at 1%D, keep doing that when he undercuts you... when you hit your sweet spot BO..." The idea of pushing someone to a buyout price is cool. I'm not sure how that would work as there's basically infinite supply in this case, but ... definitely neat idea. I used to play this game with the +5 implant market. It's great fun to find some competition who will blindly undercut to the point of taking a loss, buy up his product, and jack your own prices back up. I've even been bought up just before pushing my own buyouts in a sick game of virtual economic chicken. Definitely a valid strategy, but risky. And you're right to point out that its probably pointless on an NPC-replenished item. To the OP, I've never sold skillbooks so I don't know how fast they move. But with the market conditions you describe, I'd buy and sell smaller quantities at a time, unless you actually move a hundred books over the course of a couple days. This will prevent you from being left holding the bag on 100 books when that market does reach equilibrium. Which it will, and quickly, if there are two of you dealing with that volume and slashing prices like you've described. Anytime you've got the kind of competitor you describe, and if volume doesn't really support the both of you, you're better off undercutting by .01 to take what profit you can when hes not adjusting orders, then leave that market alone for a bit until it dies off. The dramatic cuts you are making are counterproductive in my opinion. If he's brought that kind of volume to the station, hes not likely to let you scare him off.
Nial Naor	Posted - 2009.03.30 19:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Nial Naor on 30/03/2009 19:16:56 Here is something funny that happened to me the other day. I hauled about 2 million Havoc heavy missiles to an Angel 0.0 region. I bought the missiles for about 20isk each. Since explosion damage is the damage type to use against Angels and many people rat in Drakes/NightHawks, I was expecting decent demand. The only person selling havoc heavy missiles was some clown selling them for about 200isk per unit. So I start by setting up a sell order for 200,000 missiles for 120isk. Still nice profit for me but significantly cheaper than the other guy. To my surprise the entire order was bought not a minute later. A short investigation revealed to me the buyer was the ôother guyö and he immediately relisted the missiles for 200isk. I set another sell order for another 800,000 missiles at 120isk and just as quickly the ôother guyö bought them and relisted them for 200isk. So now that he swallowed my bait, it was time for the final blow. I set a final sell order my remaining million missiles for 100isk. Now the situation was: He had a sell order for 1.2 million missiles at 200 isk (the million he bought from me plus his original 200,000) which brought his average cost per missile to about 1,000,000 x 120 + 200,000 x 20 =103isk. I had a sell order for 1,000,000 missiles for 100 isk. So now that my asking price is lower than his cost price he canÆt sell any of his missiles and if he will try to buy out all my stock than I am just going to haul another 2 million missiles and relist them again for 100 isk. In other words, he screwed himself so bad that he cant sell any more missiles in that region and he has to haul a million missiles out of there. The lessons of this story are: 1.Its better to buy low than to sell high. 2.Being able to set a lower asking price is a huge advantage. 3.If the other guy asking price is lower he can still be more profitable if he is more efficient. 4.DonÆt get too greedy. If you are looking for a 900% profit you will be beaten by someone who is satisfied with ôonlyö 100% profit. Edit: This example is more relevant to trading in 0.0, which is much much different.but the principles stands.
Mari Katarin	Posted - 2009.03.30 19:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Nial Naor Here is something funny that happened to me the other day. ... Well played, but you could have done better. Identifying one of these "I always call no matter what hand I'm dealt" guys is like a little tiny Christmas. It always makes my day no matter how little or much ISK I wind up making. What you could have done first is determine his pain point. Once the first 200k were insta-bought you could have performed a binary search to see the price at which he stops buying. Put another 200k up at 150. If bought, put 163,772 up at 180. Then put out a bunch of orders with relatively small volumes, clustered around and varying as little as .01 ISK. Play your not so wise competition like a fiddle. Make him think a bunch of market crashing assclowns moved into the neighborhood. Before too long you'll be able to buy that ammo back for the same 20 isk/pu you paid in empire.
Pixie Rollins	Posted - 2009.03.30 19:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Pixie Rollins on 30/03/2009 19:55:44
Nial Naor	Posted - 2009.03.30 19:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Mari Katarin Originally by: Nial Naor Here is something funny that happened to me the other day. ... Well played, but you could have done better. What you could have done first is determine his pain point. Once the first 200k were insta-bought you could have performed a binary search to see the price at which he stops buying. Put another 200k up at 150. If bought, put 163,772 up at 180. Then put out a bunch of orders with relatively small volumes, clustered around and varying as little as .01 ISK. Excellent advice! I usually trade in 0.0 space because i like the smuggling aspect which i find exciting, and the relatively inefficient market. After reading your post i realized that empire trading can be as fun if you take a very aggressive and predatory approach.
Gaius Aemilius Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation	Posted - 2009.03.30 20:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Nial Naor After reading your post i realized that empire trading can be as fun if you take a very aggressive and predatory approach. Another person has achieved enlightenment. Trading, even in Empire, truly is PvP. As such it benefits from PvP virtues like aggressiveness, speedy decision-making, and a desire to eat the competition alive. Now go forth and wreck markets with your newfound powers! Wormholes ate my sig. They said it was yummy.
Nial Naor	Posted - 2009.03.30 20:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Nial Naor on 30/03/2009 20:30:51 So now i must ask the eternal MD forum question: "got a freighter, how to profit?"
Arpad Elo	Posted - 2009.03.30 21:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Nial Naor Edited by: Nial Naor on 30/03/2009 20:30:51 So now i must ask the eternal MD forum question: "got a freighter, how to profit?" :) Ty guys. :)
Nial Naor	Posted - 2009.03.30 23:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Gaius Aemilius Originally by: Nial Naor After reading your post i realized that empire trading can be as fun if you take a very aggressive and predatory approach. Trading, even in Empire, truly is PvP. ! Even in empire, or especially in empire? Anyone else think that trading is the one area of the game where the essential risk/reward equation - 0.0 is more profitable but also carries more risk û does not apply? So far, my experience in 0.0 trading is that if you are in a half decent alliance, use good intel and choose the right ship, the risk of blowing up is significantly lower than of flying an industrial ship in Jita. People are also expecting to pay more in 0.0. My question is, do you think market risk is higher in empire or null sec? I guess it boils down to the highly competitive environment versus the endless supply of suckers.
Turiel Demon Minmatar Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2009.03.31 09:58:00 - [28] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: wikipedia While many people believe that lemmings commit mass suicide when they migrate, this is not the case. Driven by strong biological urges, they will migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat. On occasion, and particularly in the case of the Norway lemmings in Scandinavia, large migrating groups will reach a cliff overlooking the ocean. They will stop until the urge to press on causes them to jump off the cliff and start swimming, sometimes to exhaustion and death. Lemmings are also often pushed into the sea as more and more lemmings arrive at the shore. Originally by: wikipedia Due to their association with this odd behavior, lemming suicide is a frequently-used metaphor in reference to people who go along unquestioningly with popular opinion, with potentially dangerous or fatal consequences. Source I'm sorry to derail the thread a bit, but how could you miss out on this: Originally by: wiki Even more influential was the 1958 Disney film White Wilderness, which won an Academy Award for Documentary Feature, in which footage was shown that seems to show the mass suicide of lemmings.[10] A Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary, Cruel Camera, found that the lemmings used for White Wilderness were flown from Hudson Bay to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, where they did not jump off the cliff, but in fact were launched off the cliff using a turntable. Also, the lemmings were herded towards the cliff edge with the use of loud jeeps.
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.03.31 15:07:00 - [29] it's easy: - first you need a complete lack of economic and math skills - generally a small brain - no patience Then you check the markets. We will talk about buy orders, sell orders are the same but on the other way. Lets say biggest current buy order is 540.000isk while lowest sell order is 999.999isk. K you gotta add a buy order 100items for 540.000,01isk Someone will overtake, and set 540.000,02. You then change yours to 540.000,03 (change previous instead of adding a new one!!) Now a casual buyer wants a quick buy so he adds a 800.000,00isk buy order (quantity: 1). You, a complete brainless, will change your 100items order to 800.000,01isk and some other lemmings will follow: 800.000,02 and so on... at this point its kinda impossible you will be buying for 540k again. Ever. (or at least for some weeks) And this is a classic story about how a casual buyer can ruin your profits. Oh wait, he didnt ruin anything, YOU LEMMINGS DID. The end.
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:09:00 - [30] Sorry for the bump. STOP LEMMINING AND MORONING THE MARKET PLZ KTHX I guess I will have to crash several markets to get the lulz back on my side. You guys love to crash and lemmining the market, I will make you lose even more isk. Said.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.26 11:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Ms Delerium Sorry for the bump. STOP LEMMINING AND MORONING THE MARKET PLZ KTHX I guess I will have to crash several markets to get the lulz back on my side. You guys love to crash and lemmining the market, I will make you lose even more isk. Said. obvious alt is obvious.. and reportet you for thread necroing! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Corpia Sin	Posted - 2009.04.26 16:39:00 - [32] Edited by: Corpia Sin on 26/04/2009 16:41:25 Originally by: Nial Naor Edited by: Nial Naor on 30/03/2009 19:39:23 Here is something funny that happened to me the other day. I hauled 2 million Havoc heavy missiles to an Angel 0.0 region. ... I loved this story. It really illustrates market pvp - boomheadshot! It made me rethink how I view other market sell/buy orders. Normally If I see a high buy order I think this region has high profitable potential. Instead of normally making 100% profit I now can make 900%! However that is not always the case, there is more than one way to win the market. Basically what moral can be gleaned is 'slow and steady wins the race'. I also have a story - it may be off OP but it doesn't deserve its own thread either. The other day I set small buy orders for T1 mins, 5mill units for each. I noticed the next day all buy orders were filled by the same player. Obviously a trader because he remotely sold his stock - all from low sec stations within mere seconds. I marveled and smiled to myself at what really happened. Sure it could be harmless, just somebody selling off some stock. But the way I look at is that this player wanted to squeeze me out. First, because I was no threat (small buy order amounts) and he sold off his irritating low sec minerals (and still break even possibly) and left me to trudge through lowsec to pick them up! He took a gamble by squeezing me out (I could of easily placed more orders but do I want them all in lowsec? and I was broke anyways), meanwhile - it requires me to spend time off hauling lowsec courier runs while he can get back into the buy market. I haven't been able to get back into the mineral market for a few days because of this manuevere. I am still noobiesh and not quite able to run lowsec myself. So I have to contract the hauling out. Perhaps done to any other player (I was just dabbling in the mineral market) they could have shrugged it off. This is why I love eve.
Turiel Demon Minmatar Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2009.04.28 00:38:00 - [33] Today, I learned to stop worrying and love the lemming. Also, it has come to my attention that I'm really in need of a proper signature.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.04.28 10:23:00 - [34] Originally by: Arpad Elo I'd like to know how to do the lemming well. i.e. how to determine how to cut prices, how rapidly, etc. I have a feeling I'm probably going to have to put my thoughts out and ask for comments, but I'd prefer to read yours first if that's ok. :) 1)Watch your market, 2)Wait till you see activity (ie someone just cut their price by 0.01isk.) 3)wait 4min 30 secs (this will ensure that your competition can reduce their price before you sell anything with luck) 4)cut your price a few % (I find trashing a market in small steps avoids early buy outs from your competitors) 5)hopefully the guy who first changed (or anyone else is cool too) will follow you and cut by 0.01isk. 6)wait for more activity (by leaving the competition ahead they sell you dont.) 7) once you spot more activity its back to step 3) follow this till prices are low enougth to buy up and relist with minimum risk or if a player built item wait until you are 5% below build cost any further and other may jump in and get the fruits before you.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 10:27:00 - [35] Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Arpad Elo I'd like to know how to do the lemming well. i.e. how to determine how to cut prices, how rapidly, etc. I have a feeling I'm probably going to have to put my thoughts out and ask for comments, but I'd prefer to read yours first if that's ok. :) 1)Watch your market, 2)Wait till you see activity (ie someone just cut their price by 0.01isk.) 3)wait 4min 30 secs (this will ensure that your competition can reduce their price before you sell anything with luck) 4)cut your price a few % (I find trashing a market in small steps avoids early buy outs from your competitors) 5)hopefully the guy who first changed (or anyone else is cool too) will follow you and cut by 0.01isk. 6)wait for more activity (by leaving the competition ahead they sell you dont.) 7) once you spot more activity its back to step 3) follow this till prices are low enougth to buy up and relist with minimum risk or if a player built item wait until you are 5% below build cost any further and other may jump in and get the fruits before you. haha very nice, and 100 % spot on, well written midas! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Ji Sama haha very nice, and 100 % spot on, well written midas! And for extra giggles after buying everything use the exact same method to push the price of buy orders up with out buying. Leaves you at risk from stockpiles and interregion traders but if you find the right items with limited supply you can end up selling the stock you bought up cheap back to the player you bought it from for a mark up

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