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Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.31 17:41:00 - [1] Announcing new project being in development, cadename: "gEFT" (GTK EVE FITTING TOOL) Project is going to be independently written from scratch in "old school" ANSI C using GTK API as gui wrapper. However I will try to mimic existing popular tool - EFT in functionality and visual presentation order. Reason for this project is that EFT runs completely crappy and unstable on softlayer windows binary emulation such as "WINE" and that the project source code is enclosed (and even if it was open I think it was written using "Delphi" aka borland object pascal that is not very cross platform friendly). For this reason at least the early releases will be concentrated on compatibility with Linux/*BSD platforms (unless someone will be willing to port them to win32/64 or mac as I do not work with these platforms). If there are any developers with good C/GTK+ experience willing to help speed up development convo/mail me ingame. Project should be in semi-usable form in about 1/2months from now.
Syrinthal Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.31 19:51:00 - [2] Trust a SAS homo to go with gtk horridness, where is my qt god now? :/ Might be interested in some of the back end stuff, so any chance you will have things more or less open?
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.31 21:42:00 - [3] Originally by: Syrinthal Trust a SAS homo to go with gtk horridness, where is my qt god now? :/ Might be interested in some of the back end stuff, so any chance you will have things more or less open? QT looks awful m..key? GTK+ skin engine rocks my socks. Just hate when I have to use QT apps.
Dmitryilyin Gallente Risky eXplosion Death or Glory	Posted - 2009.04.01 15:23:00 - [4] I think there is no need fo gEFT. Windows EFS works flawlessly with WINE for me. Also most Delphi programs run great with WINE, what cannot be said for Visual Basic, Visual C++ and .NET.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.02 02:44:00 - [5] Edited by: Lilya Ormus on 02/04/2009 02:44:37 Originally by: Dmitryilyin I think there is no need fo gEFT. Windows EFS works flawlessly with WINE for me. Also most Delphi programs run great with WINE, what cannot be said for Visual Basic, Visual C++ and .NET. I tried it running with many versions of WINE (including 1.1.18) on none of them did it act as it would on windows box. Many graphical glitches as well as its unstable with window sometimes just closing. When I mentioned "cross platform" I was not talking about how the binaries are emulation friendly I was refering to the cross platform features of the source code. Even thow if I am not mistaken there is a borland tool to compile its code on Linux platform but its commercial (so delphi is limited only to windows ant partly linux, no macos or any other *nix clones) that is not an option. Besides the architecture itself of Delphi is really crappy (just as crappy as .NET) with most (if not all) libraries having their code enclosed or even being commercialized. Being a digital communist myself I try to use as little commercialized software as possible.
Dmitryilyin Gallente Risky eXplosion Death or Glory	Posted - 2009.04.02 08:34:00 - [6] It is Lasaurus and freepascal and bouth are free, but it doesn't metter because EFT is closed source. Also EFT works great for me without any grafical glitches and very stable. There is also QuickFit http://elegance.grojojo.com/quickfit/download.html It is in Java so it is crossplatform. Not shure is it free or not.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.02 11:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Dmitryilyin There is also QuickFit http://elegance.grojojo.com/quickfit/download.html It's highly outdated, not even contains the EM/EX resistance changes. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Dmitryilyin Gallente Risky eXplosion Death or Glory	Posted - 2009.04.02 13:03:00 - [8] There is also Tighfit http://evetightfit.org Opensource, written in Java, looks pretty nice. We could help to improve and update it instead of inventing new bicycle, as it's always done in linux world.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.02 15:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Dmitryilyin There is also Tighfit http://evetightfit.org Opensource, written in Java, looks pretty nice. We could help to improve and update it instead of inventing new bicycle, as it's always done in linux world. Don't understand what is it you dont like about this idia really. People deserve to have their native 3rd party tools. For example there was great success for "gevemon" project becouse its light and its written in very cross platform way. People still use it even you can launch EVEmon on wine and there lots of all kind of java like clients (I never installed JDK and really aint gonna do just becouse I need to open some eve tool) who try to do the same but people use what is best and what they like to use. If you prefer launching EFT on WINE well then its your choice mate I just want to give people more options.
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.02 19:29:00 - [10] You don't need JDK, JRE is enough. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Slaine Valdorian SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.04.02 21:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Lilya Ormus Project is going to be independently written from scratch in "old school" ANSI C using GTK API as gui wrapper. I'm interested. But why 'old school' ANSI C? It's ... old. There are so many ways to speed up things and stay platform independent: C++ with gtkmm, Python with pyGTK. The days of bad C++ support are long gone.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.03 00:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Slaine Valdorian Originally by: Lilya Ormus Project is going to be independently written from scratch in "old school" ANSI C using GTK API as gui wrapper. I'm interested. But why 'old school' ANSI C? It's ... old. There are so many ways to speed up things and stay platform independent: C++ with gtkmm, Python with pyGTK. The days of bad C++ support are long gone. Hit me up ingame regarding development. Regarding the C/C++, I am more comfortable using C for smaller projects. Platform independentcy had nothing to do with this choice. Besides I know that I can skip one or two dependencies when choosing C by avoiding the C++ wrappers for APIs intended for C (like skipping your mentioned gtkmm), its not that significant these days but just mentioning it for general purpose. Most of GTK apps are written using ANSI C for simillar reasons.
cyanogen hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.03 06:27:00 - [13] I support your decision to use C and GTK and would prefer a native solution over using EFT + WINE.
Dmitryilyin Gallente Risky eXplosion Death or Glory	Posted - 2009.04.03 09:46:00 - [14] Actually I would prefer Java solution. Working on any platform (including cell phones?) without any sex.
Slaine Valdorian SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.04.03 11:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Dmitryilyin I don't like when people are inventing bicycles. Same here. I do not understand people using the lowest possible abstraction level to do gui application. The days were speed was an argument are long gone. Even Java is quite fast if programmed correctly (eg. NetBeans is written entirely in Java with Swing).
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.03 12:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Slaine Valdorian Same here. I do not understand people using the lowest possible abstraction level to do gui application. The days were speed was an argument are long gone. Even Java is quite fast if programmed correctly (eg. NetBeans is written entirely in Java with Swing). My point is: A properly desgined high-level implementations takes out a lot of complexity, which speeds up development and debugging. It also allows easy extensibility. Sorry, but I was unable to migrate my office to linux. Reason is that X rendering is too slow compared to Windows native rendering. Even with proprietary drivers. And Java is just a crap, GUI speed measurement not going to reach zero... from negative side. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Slaine Valdorian SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.04.03 12:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Tonto Auri Sorry, but I was unable to migrate my office to linux. Reason is that X rendering is too slow compared to Windows native rendering. Even with proprietary drivers. And Java is just a crap, GUI speed measurement not going to reach zero... from negative side. I'm sorry for your bad experience with Linux. Unfortunately x rendering tends to have ... interesting behavior from time to time. But really: There is no more subjective difference between java apps and native apps (provided both are programmed in a good way). Not that i like java that much, I prefer python. I just want to try to clean up the misconception that java is soooo slow. It's just no longer true for modern computers and jre/jdks
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.03 16:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Dmitryilyin Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 03/04/2009 09:58:44 I don't like when people are inventing bicycles. It has already become golden tradition of Unix world (and windows too) to have lot of software which is very similar in functionality and all have different glitches and bugs, so all of them are half-usable. Why we cannot have ONE program to do ONE thing, but do it excellent. It is one of basic rules of Unix philosophy. Actually I would prefer Java solution. Working on any platform (including cell phones?) without any sex, yes it is not too fast and require JRE or JDK. I do not agree with you saying its inventing the bicycle. When many companies are making bicycles it does not mean they are inventing it they are just using the same design of a "thing with two or more wheels where a person(s) can move by pushing the pedals with their feet" that is very abstract definition and creating many types of that invention to suite different types of people better. You cant have one piece of software and have all world's developers work on it and make all kind of people happy with it alone. Different people will like different stuff. Thats why you dont have operating system with one type of office suite. Different projects might look they are doing the same stuff but their arent really, they are providing people with choices that suite their needs best.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.13 22:13:00 - [19] Edited by: Lilya Ormus on 13/04/2009 22:13:47 Screenshot of current early work in progress: Screenshot
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.14 01:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Slaine Valdorian It's just no longer true for modern computers and jre/jdks Sorry, we do not have $30'000 to spend on hardware upgrades each year. In past 6 years, there were nothing principially new invented in OS, just general bloating of the codebase (Simple switching from C++ to .Net did M$ a favor of increasing distributive size (packed!) two-fold...) -- Thanks CCP for cu
Identity Hidden Amarr Advanced Logistics Exalted.	Posted - 2009.04.14 11:46:00 - [21] I love that it's not .NET or Java. Bit sad that you are using C. I think using Python or something like that would be better for the project as more people could contribute and development would simply be faster. Also, concentrating on compatibility with Linux/*BSD from the get-go without any consideration for windows or mac is why you will likely get even less help than you would otherwise. I wish you luck. If I were any good at low level stuff I would love to help out. Sadly I am not.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.14 13:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Identity Hidden I love that it's not .NET or Java. Bit sad that you are using C. I think using Python or something like that would be better for the project as more people could contribute and development would simply be faster. Also, concentrating on compatibility with Linux/*BSD from the get-go without any consideration for windows or mac is why you will likely get even less help than you would otherwise. I wish you luck. If I were any good at low level stuff I would love to help out. Sadly I am not. I would not consider my code lowlevel as I use API wrappers like GTK/LIBXML only low level parts would be handling its own memory. Becouse its based on API wrappers the code will be more or less portable to windows or mac (with sligh moderation probably). When I develop my code to the level where people can start using it I will be looking for people willing to port/compile the code for windows/mac or even try doing it myself (probably set up virtual machine to compile them, how ever I would dislike doing so as I would have to actually buy those operating systems as software piracy is bad).
Ancorehraq sis Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2009.04.14 17:14:00 - [23] Predicting: horrible ****heap of C that segfaults every other time you click something while the author is too scared to touch it. It's not you, it's the statistics.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.14 19:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Ancorehraq sis Predicting: horrible ***heap of C that segfaults every other time you click something while the author is too scared to touch it. It's not you, it's the statistics. Don't know what you are talking about. Around 70%+ of all code and apps combined that are dedicated to Linux for example are written in C. If thats what ure telling is true it would not be possible to use most of the stuff without crashing. Language has nothing to do with poor programming quality of the authors whos code does crash. C will be most popular language for nix developers for a long time in the future until they die out and freshmen who know nothing but java and .net take over the development scene.
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.14 23:29:00 - [25] As stated in first post project is now open to who ever feels like testing development commits or just wants to track progress as it goes.
Artemis SoT	Posted - 2009.04.17 07:02:00 - [26] Can u use svn (like gtkevemon, etc) ? It will help much to stay tuned.
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Dmitryilyin It is Lasaurus and freepascal and bouth are free, but it doesn't metter because EFT is closed source. Also EFT works great for me without any grafical glitches and very stable. There is also QuickFit http://elegance.grojojo.com/quickfit/download.html It is in Java so it is crossplatform. Not shure is it free or not. If people would use still quickfit it would be quite obvious to explain the losses they had as last update is from 2007
Lilya Ormus S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Artemis Can u use svn (like gtkevemon, etc) ? It will help much to stay tuned. It is using svn engine called 'Mercurial'. Link to it's web interface can be found in first post. You can click on "bz2"/"gz"/"zip" to get the source code from current repository. Or you can install mercurial and fetch latest repository with "hg clone https://www.4geeks.de/hg/geft/geft geft" and later check for changes with "hg pull && hg update".
Kadesh Priestess Scalding Chill	Posted - 2009.04.19 22:28:00 - [29] Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 19/04/2009 22:28:44 After tuning makefile to include my distro's (deb squeeze) folders necessary to compile gEFT i get following error: Quote: darkphoenix@Kreo:~/src/geft$ make gcc main.o gui.o sql.o http.o gui_callbacks.o expander.o -L/usr/local/lib -lcurl -rpath=/usr/lib:/usr/local/lib -lssl -lcrypto -lxml2 -lz -liconv -lm -pthread -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lXext -lXrender -lXinerama -lXi -lXrandr -lXcursor -lXcomposite -lXdamage -lcairo -lpangoft2-1.0 -lX11 -lXfixes -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lz -lfontconfig -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lsqlite3 -o geft gcc: unrecognized option '-rpath=/usr/lib:/usr/local/lib' /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -liconv collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [geft] Error 1 Any guesses why it may happen?
Slaine Valdorian SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.04.19 22:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Any guesses why it may happen? The Makefile may not be up-to-date. Try installing SCons (from www.scons.org) and compile with "scons". This script should be autoconfigurating. If you dont want to use it take a look at the file to find out which compiler flags you have to use.

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