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Market PVP: Rens vs Dodixie

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Zet Morg Darkhonor Industries Order of the Void 0	Posted - 2012.05.02 09:49:00 - [1] - Quote Hello everybody. I wanted to find some people who do trading in Rens and/or Dodixie tell me what do they think. CUz ive been working there, and so far ive doubled my investment in 4 days ( 270mil). I think it is not bad for a new to trading. But lately i checked prices and opportunities in Dodixie and had a though that dodixie is better than Rens. http://eve-tools.org/tradeHubs.html shows taht Rens is better than Dodixe, but how is the real situation? Is Rens, for example i dont see any trading bots at all, in fact in my opinion there arent a lot of traders too. Market there is quite stabile, of course some modules go up, some go down, but thats normal. Just thinking if i could make more ISK in Dodixie than in Rens...
Andy DelGardo Hedion University Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.05.02 10:17:00 - [2] - Quote I guess it depends on what u want to trade in, i noticed that quite some producer are located near hek/rens/dodixie, so ofc there is some competition for raw resources. I also noticed that its really hard to sell finished products in rens/hek, mainly because so many of them are priced like 20-50% over jita, which ofc as a buyer is bad. So the problem is that most don't bother checking rens for "valid" offers, since most is heavy overpriced. Than again rens has limited offers, so u cant buy all u need in one place. So as a buyer rens/hek = bad. Dodixie, seems much more friendly, balanced as a tradehub in general. So far i did not notice bots in either of the 3 hubs, but there is quite some 0.01isking for resources in all 3 regions. Cant speak for finished products, but my guess is there is the opportunity to buy cheap in those 3 and ship all to Amarr/Jita, since sellers cant flip there stock fast enough and will eventually lower there prices even under jita/amaar buy orders. Good luck
Zet Morg Darkhonor Industries Order of the Void 0	Posted - 2012.05.02 10:23:00 - [3] - Quote Andy DelGardo wrote: I guess it depends on what u want to trade in, i noticed that quite some producer are located near hek/rens/dodixie, so ofc there is some competition for raw resources. I also noticed that its really hard to sell finished products in rens/hek, mainly because so many of them are priced like 20-50% over jita, which ofc as a buyer is bad. So the problem is that most don't bother checking rens for "valid" offers, since most is heavy overpriced. Than again rens has limited offers, so u cant buy all u need in one place. So as a buyer rens/hek = bad. Dodixie, seems much more friendly, balanced as a tradehub in general. So far i did not notice bots in either of the 3 hubs, but there is quite some 0.01isking for resources in all 3 regions. Cant speak for finished products, but my guess is there is the opportunity to buy cheap in those 3 and ship all to Amarr/Jita, since sellers cant flip there stock fast enough and will eventually lower there prices even under jita/amaar buy orders. Good luck Well, currently i am trading modules (t1, t2). About selling finished products in rens(modules), there are items who are sold fast,and other are sold slow, but with a better profit. What do u think, as a starter, is it bad to try to go for another tradehub?
Andy DelGardo Hedion University Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.05.02 10:40:00 - [4] - Quote Zet Morg wrote: What do u think, as a starter, is it bad to try to go for another tradehub? I'm not really a trader, i'm mainly "forced" into this stupid 0.01isk game as a producer/seller. I really think they should review real world market trading, compared to this stupid 0.01isk grind "minigame". For me the most important part is to actually have a good cash/material/product flow. This means i can't "yet" afford to have billions of products sitting on the market for days, while i waste my time with 0.01isking babysitting my orders. So i normally "need" to ship all finished products to Jita/Amaar or use the bulk order mailing list. I would assume the same is true for station traders, so u need "stuff" u can resell fast. Why don't u check Amarr, i noticed nice price differences for many products compared to jita, which also seem to fluctuate and have huge volumes. Thats why i now double check each item at least for jita/amaar prices and 30% of my stock always goes to amaar. I mainly noticed opportunities for materials/components, since rens/hek/dodixie simply has not all needed production materials or in low volume only. So i still need to buy stuff in amarr/jita and ship it to rens, while i actually would pay more if i could skip this part and directly buy there. So maybe there is a opportunity? bye Andy
Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 236	Posted - 2012.05.02 10:45:00 - [5] - Quote Eve tools is broken with no market update for months. They are both active market hubs, Rens is probably the busier of the two but consequently Dodixie has less competition. How much competition you encounter really depends on what you items you trade.
Wyke Mossari Staner Industries 236	Posted - 2012.05.02 10:52:00 - [6] - Quote The other thing to remember is Gallente armour tank and Minmatar shield & speed tank so that influences module demand. Gallente get a big chunk of damage from drones and use large slow firing guns, while Minmatar use of ammo and less drones.
Pinstar Colton New Lunar Republic Special Tactics Squadron 15	Posted - 2012.05.02 12:05:00 - [7] - Quote I made my first billion out of Rens before moving up to Amarr. It is a very good market for young traders who might not have the raw ISK to move a lot of volume or the character skills to tolerate razor thin margins, but who do have the time to sniff out profits from the surrounding area and don't mind doing a little hauling and research. I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler.
Chevalleis The Legendary Conquest 114	Posted - 2012.05.02 12:31:00 - [8] - Quote I thought Dodixie was dying?
Lyrka Bloodberry Spybeaver 75	Posted - 2012.05.02 12:58:00 - [9] - Quote Go to Amarr. Rens and Dodixie are both not worth it. Spybeaver
Zet Morg Darkhonor Industries Order of the Void 0	Posted - 2012.05.02 14:16:00 - [10] - Quote Pinstar Colton wrote: I made my first billion out of Rens before moving up to Amarr. It is a very good market for young traders who might not have the raw ISK to move a lot of volume or the character skills to tolerate razor thin margins, but who do have the time to sniff out profits from the surrounding area and don't mind doing a little hauling and research. i must agree. Even thou i had a big capital, about 1,5bil, but i act as a new player so that i wont lose it :D Thou when trading in Rens, u absolutely MUST buy stuff within atleast 1 jump, cuz a lot of stuff is being sold in Farn.
Zet Morg Darkhonor Industries Order of the Void 0	Posted - 2012.05.02 14:17:00 - [11] - Quote Lyrka Bloodberry wrote: Go to Amarr. Rens and Dodixie are both not worth it. On what argument your statement is based on?
Pinstar Colton New Lunar Republic Special Tactics Squadron 15	Posted - 2012.05.02 14:29:00 - [12] - Quote Zet Morg wrote: Pinstar Colton wrote: I made my first billion out of Rens before moving up to Amarr. It is a very good market for young traders who might not have the raw ISK to move a lot of volume or the character skills to tolerate razor thin margins, but who do have the time to sniff out profits from the surrounding area and don't mind doing a little hauling and research. i must agree. Even thou i had a big capital, about 1,5bil, but i act as a new player so that i wont lose it :D Thou when trading in Rens, u absolutely MUST buy stuff within atleast 1 jump, cuz a lot of stuff is being sold in Farn. I gave myself a 2-jump tolerance and setup shop in Illinfrik. My orders would blanket both Rens and Farn as well as some of the outlying systems. I did quite a lot of hauling, but when you don't have the raw capital, you need a larger margin to make any real money at first. Large margins + decent turnover= Hauling. Once you get more raw capital, you can start trading in higher volume with lower margins but little/no hauling. That works up to a point. Once your volume gets large enough, the market can't support it and you are better off moving up to Amarr or Jita. I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler.
george harries School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 45	Posted - 2012.05.02 19:43:00 - [13] - Quote FWIW I started trading 'properly' when my corp was heavily war decced and we were not running a fleet. I had recently relocated from amarr space and hauled all my 'mission loot' (well I may need those 150 hardeners ) so I noticed a few things, as I was in Minnie space there are certain items that were 400% + more expensive than in Amarr space - specific types of rat loot. Then I started small - about 150m and just bough meta modules - usually stuff I knew missioners pick up and dumped in their station - so I made sure the market orders encompassed the main mission hub(s). Only a small amount of hauling, a few weeks of babysitting and I had 1bn liquid plus a shed load of stuff to sell. I know trade in larger value items - sometimes a slow turnover but really only update every few days......but after 2 months I have over 5bn in market orders.....if I were more active and aggressive I think it would be double. Advice I would give is similar to real life trading - only buy stuff you know about - or learn about it I do a bit of PvP now and this opened new opportunities like stocking a busy low sec hub with faction ammo, guns, frigs warp scrams etc.....despite my obscene prices they sold pretty well - when you lost your ship you may dock up asap and don't want to do 1/2 jumps to refit of you can get a fitted firg back into the fight. Also never underestimate the laziness and wealth of missioners - I would happily pay 10/20%+ over the odds for something rather than do a few jumps.....ammo....drones.....armour/shield hardeners....suitcases etc......if you're not greedy and understand the market you are 'in' then being a lazy trader (as I am) can still bring a steady stream of isk.
LC Sulla House Mekarae 1	Posted - 2012.05.02 20:20:00 - [14] - Quote george harries wrote: ... Also never underestimate the laziness and wealth of missioners - I would happily pay 10/20%+ over the odds for something rather than do a few jumps.....ammo....drones.....armour/shield hardeners....suitcases etc.... I support fully this statement... as one of those lazy but wealthy missioners Oh... I've run out of ammo?! I could jump around and get some cheaper or I could just buy that stuff here for +25% and go back out and kill stuff.
Fairhand Aliastra Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2012.05.02 20:49:00 - [15] - Quote I am definitely guilty of this. If I need a chunk of ammo or just a couple of T2 drones (or even just a shuttle), I am very likely to just buy from where I am missioning providing the price is not silly. Anything in the order of +25% is fine with me. I think it is a case of "What is my time worth?" or at least that is how I justify my laziness.
Debiru Flashpoint Industries 5	Posted - 2012.05.02 20:51:00 - [16] - Quote The market in Dodixie is very active, but also very unstable. This can be good or bad depending on how you like to do your production. If you work on a daily time schedule (build an item and get it on market less than 24 hours later), it can do you a ton of good. There are a fair few market manipulators in Dodixie as well who do a lot of price spiking. Fortunately, these guys focus on manufactured goods and less on base goods like minerals, which means an industrialist can make a lot of money riding on their coattails.
Darex Nidor Interstellar Ministeries United Homeworlds 2	Posted - 2012.05.02 21:00:00 - [17] - Quote Both are very heavily manipulated, really bad places to buy anything from the sell orders. Dodixie is clearly larger hub than Rens. But in both, you can run into very high sell prices. In Dodixie T2 module market was great few years ago.
Barakach R-ISK Shadow Operations. 65	Posted - 2012.05.02 22:44:00 - [18] - Quote Darex Nidor wrote: Both are very heavily manipulated, really bad places to buy anything from the sell orders. Dodixie is clearly larger hub than Rens. But in both, you can run into very high sell prices. In Dodixie T2 module market was great few years ago. I'm not sure if lower volumes and more volatile prices are indicative of a "larger" market.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 79	Posted - 2012.05.02 23:44:00 - [19] - Quote Trading bots are hardly a problem in eve now to be honest seems CCP is keeping on top of them. It used to be hell maybe 8 months ago and more you could watch all of your trade sheet get 1 isked in mins after every single update by 1 char. You could get 1/30th down your sheet then quickly check as your order got beaten by the same char 23/7, now when it happens I'm 99.9% sure that it's just an eager trader as it does not happen 23/7 pretty much instantly or if it is a bot it does not last long before it's stopped.
Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae 79	Posted - 2012.05.02 23:47:00 - [20] - Quote As for Rens V Dixie I find shipping stuff from dixie to Rens works well Rens is typically more expensive. HEK is inbetween the two and that more expensive but the market is slower so I sometimes drop 1/10th of my orders of there.
Kara Books Deal with IT. 124	Posted - 2012.05.03 02:17:00 - [21] - Quote Andy DelGardo wrote: Zet Morg wrote: What do u think, as a starter, is it bad to try to go for another tradehub? I'm not really a trader, i'm mainly "forced" into this stupid 0.01isk game as a producer/seller. I really think they should review real world market trading, compared to this stupid 0.01isk grind "minigame". For me the most important part is to actually have a good cash/material/product flow. This means i can't "yet" afford to have billions of products sitting on the market for days, while i waste my time with 0.01isking babysitting my orders. So i normally "need" to ship all finished products to Jita/Amaar or use the bulk order mailing list. I would assume the same is true for station traders, so u need "stuff" u can resell fast. Why don't u check Amarr, i noticed nice price differences for many products compared to jita, which also seem to fluctuate and have huge volumes. Thats why i now double check each item at least for jita/amaar prices and 30% of my stock always goes to amaar. I mainly noticed opportunities for materials/components, since rens/hek/dodixie simply has not all needed production materials or in low volume only. So i still need to buy stuff in amarr/jita and ship it to rens, while i actually would pay more if i could skip this part and directly buy there. So maybe there is a opportunity? bye Andy If you plan it JUST right, you can just plop a huge sell order at a great price and get on with life. first few days people will be angry, then they calm down and then about 1 month later your goods will start selling. Thats basically all you can do to avoid the penny war, just takes 1-2 months of patience and eventually either a manipulator comes by or the locals get tired of the stingy profit margins for the item. From a traders point of view, If I see something selling a bit to cheep, thats exactly how I go about it, works perfectly fine if you give it some good thought so you minimize the chances for blunders.
enterprisePSI 98	Posted - 2012.05.03 09:49:00 - [22] - Quote yeah i left dodixie months ago and now i'm making billions. dodi sucks. The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one. -«enterprise-psi
Rhivre TarNec 1	Posted - 2012.05.03 10:35:00 - [23] - Quote Dod can be fairly busy, depending on what you are trading. The 0.01 doesnt matter too much if you dont want it to. I usually just stick a ton of stuff up and let it fill over a few days. Most prices tend to stay around a certain value, give or take a few % Dod varies between frantic trading for some items, and others taking ages to move 1. These days I cba updating 273 orders, so I just let them sit until they fill. If you pick your items right, there is little competion. I have not been trading in Rens, so cannot say about the volumes moved through there, but my general experience of minmatar markets is that they service different clients to the Gallente ones (Not just in the types of ships ^^), each hub behaves differently, and requires a different strategy, but they are all profitable.
Johnny Frecko Fruidian Logic 18	Posted - 2012.05.03 11:03:00 - [24] - Quote what is it with you people and 0.01 games anger? 0.01 is how the REAL market works, it just has such insane volume that it looks like the prices are constantly shifting. You don't actually "update" your order for 0.01 because of both fees and movement speed. Things just don't move fast enough in eve, so people are forced to play the 0.01 game. That being said, This is not the stock market, and maybe a heavier update fee is in order to make sure prices are somewhat rigid. back on topic - Dodi is somewhat dead, and it's sad :(
Rhivre TarNec 1	Posted - 2012.05.03 11:21:00 - [25] - Quote I agree about the 0.01 speed thing. I have been trading some items, and when it has gone flashy for sell, between it flashing, and me clicking "view details", 2 others have gone on top of my order....HOWEVER.....when you are on top for that short spot of time, your orders clear very fast. The price itself rarely changes much, and if we all undercut by large amounts, then by the time my 5 mins were up for remodify, the price would be down below buy orders ^^ I undercut deeply usually when I have bought insanely cheaply. If say, I am buying 5x lower than i am selling, of course I am going to undercut deeply if you annoy me with 0.01ing, but, I am also tight :p and do not like going under 20% ^^
Debiru Flashpoint Industries Imperial Hull Tankers 6	Posted - 2012.05.03 17:22:00 - [26] - Quote Andy DelGardo wrote: Zet Morg wrote: What do u think, as a starter, is it bad to try to go for another tradehub? I'm not really a trader, i'm mainly "forced" into this stupid 0.01isk game as a producer/seller. I really think they should review real world market trading, compared to this stupid 0.01isk grind "minigame". For me the most important part is to actually have a good cash/material/product flow. This means i can't "yet" afford to have billions of products sitting on the market for days, while i waste my time with 0.01isking babysitting my orders. So i normally "need" to ship all finished products to Jita/Amaar or use the bulk order mailing list. I would assume the same is true for station traders, so u need "stuff" u can resell fast. Why don't u check Amarr, i noticed nice price differences for many products compared to jita, which also seem to fluctuate and have huge volumes. Thats why i now double check each item at least for jita/amaar prices and 30% of my stock always goes to amaar. I mainly noticed opportunities for materials/components, since rens/hek/dodixie simply has not all needed production materials or in low volume only. So i still need to buy stuff in amarr/jita and ship it to rens, while i actually would pay more if i could skip this part and directly buy there. So maybe there is a opportunity? bye Andy You could find an active trader and simply sell your goods to him directly under market price. This saves you on transaction taxes and gets him items he can turn around quickly. He will want it under market price, but the loss in pure profit is made up for by the quickness of the sale. With industry, sale speed is as important as profits, especially when you're dealing with limited ISK, you need to be able to reinvest that money as quickly as possible to keep up cash flow. From what you said before, cash flow is your biggest problem, so this would be the best approach. Bulk Trade list also works, though a large percentage of its users are Jita-based, and not in the other hubs quite so much. Also, I'd advise against always going to Jita to sell. It goes faster, but the time spent shipping will cancel that out, as will the reduced profits. Selling in Dod/Rens and sometimes Amarr can yield much better profits per unit.
Nostradamouse Riraille Eagle Strategic Command 0	Posted - 2012.05.03 18:05:00 - [27] - Quote You know what is fun about Dodixie, you can pretty much buy minerals anywhere on the starmap and then go sell them there for a profit. It's seriously a raw material seller's market
Debiru Flashpoint Industries Imperial Hull Tankers 7	Posted - 2012.05.03 19:11:00 - [28] - Quote Nostradamouse Riraille wrote: You know what is fun about Dodixie, you can pretty much buy minerals anywhere on the starmap and then go sell them there for a profit. It's seriously a raw material seller's market I'd disagree with you there. I've run into the situation several times of Dodixie having lower mineral prices than Jita. While Jita is, of course, lower -most- of the time, it isn't always. Dodixie also gets a fair amount of rare minerals dropped in it at decently low prices, and is sometimes more resistant, and always slower to follow, price spikes occurring in Jita. You can, however, almost always find cheaper minerals for sale in the surrounding Gallente regions and resell in Dodixie, but going between empires to sell in Dodixie doesn't always work.
Zet Morg Darkhonor Industries Order of the Void 2	Posted - 2012.05.03 22:06:00 - [29] - Quote Btw, its been 5 days when im trading and i really wanna share ut with u, hear your opinion. so i traded modules and a couple of ships. mostly modules. my starting capital was.274mil. from 04-28 to 05-03 00:00 Eve time, i earned from 274 to 715mil. soin 5 days i earned aprox.441mil . thats 88mil/day on average. (Just today i mane 86mil while.trading,so i quess average sum is quite.accurate) What do you think? Is that a moderate sum for a station trader? (i got the capital, but still am afraid kinda to trade stuff that has few hundred isk profit, but is sold +bought like 300k per day... so i stick to modules mainly). maybe u got any advice how to make more? i still use only. 33 orders..
Zet Morg Darkhonor Industries Order of the Void 2	Posted - 2012.05.03 22:13:00 - [30] - Quote oh and i forgot to tell that ive besn working in rens/dodixie. both hubs seem kinda same to me.

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