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Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
123
   |
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Here is how I think the Nidhoggur needs to be fixed;
1) 7.5% reduction in cycle time and activation cost of Capital Shield Transporter and Capital Remote Armour Repairer per Level.
2) 7.5% bonus to Capital Armour Repairer and Capital Shield Booster effectiveness per level.
Reasoning for this;
1) Cycle time/cap reduction means that it will be more effective out of triage while maintaining the same rep amount (Faster Cycle is more effective on sub caps with limited buffer).
2) Brings the tank roughly on par with the Archon in triage, primarily because at the moment the Archon is the only really practical Triage carrier, and the Nidhoggurs bonuses suggest that it should be, primarily, a Triage platform, this would make it one.
Its powergrid can remain **** poor, this way it can only fit 2x Capital Remote Armour Repper, giving it about the same rep amount as an Archon (Due to the Bonus) just with greater cap efficiency. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1874
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Implying Implications wrote:I got myself a Nidhoggur recently but the most annoying thing about it is the lack of powergrid (I'd like to be able to fit as many reps on it as an Archon though I've not yet come across a situation where I felt the need to do that). I personally think the 5% rep bonus/level is quite good howeverI know almost nothing about this game so I'm probably completely wrong.  The rep bonus for the Hel doesn't make sense! 
Minnie ships always lack of PG. They offset this ugly drawback with high alpha and quick speed.
Too bad when the devs copy pasted a Stabber philosophy on Minnie caps and subpercaps they just forgot that there's no high alpha nor quick speed at these sizes, only the drawback.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
190
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Posted - 2012.08.22 17:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Face it guys, Duct tape and capitals just doesnt go well together.
as a capital itd have a damn lot of duct tape holding it together... have u ever tried to break apart a wad of screwwed up blac duct tape before? its actually annoyingly hard! |
Nate Gordo
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
7
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Posted - 2012.09.26 18:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP with the winter expansion coming it would be a good time to sort out the Minmatar capitals to actually make them remotely comparable with the other race ships, the speed tactics commonly used by minnie ships dont apply to capitals.
Isn't it time of a RoF bonses fighters and fighter bombers for the Hel and some more PG for the Nidhoggur so it can actally rep better than the Archon.
NG |
iskflakes
Magnets Inc.
73
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 19:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
The minmatar capitals do need some love. I think all capitals do. A thorough price vs power capital rebalance is more desperately needed than a new destroyer if you ask me. Capitals do not interact well with subcaps at present, because a capital blob will always be unkillable. However, individual capitals are too weak considering their cost, so some kind of mechanics change is needed.
Track your wealth with EVE Stats: https://ohheck.co.uk/EVEStats/home.php |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
178
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 19:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:The minmatar capitals do need some love. I think all capitals do. A thorough price vs power capital rebalance is more desperately needed than a new destroyer if you ask me. Capitals do not interact well with subcaps at present, because a capital blob will always be unkillable. However, individual capitals are too weak considering their cost, so some kind of mechanics change is needed.
Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK. |
iskflakes
Magnets Inc.
73
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 21:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Paikis wrote:
Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.
Yeah I agree. A 1 million ISK ship that somebody spent 5 minutes earning the ISK for should be equally good as a 100 billion ISK ship that somebody spent a year working towards.
Track your wealth with EVE Stats: https://ohheck.co.uk/EVEStats/home.php |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
179
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 22:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Paikis wrote:
Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.
Yeah I agree. A 1 million ISK ship that somebody spent 5 minutes earning the ISK for should be equally good as a 100 billion ISK ship that somebody spent a year working towards.
That's a very nice strawman you've got there. |
iskflakes
Magnets Inc.
73
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 22:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
Paikis wrote:That's a very nice strawman you've got there.
Really?
Paikis wrote:Price should not be a balance point.
and,
Paikis wrote:do not balance based on ISK.
In what way did I misrepresent your position?
Bringing the discussion back on topic, and to rephrase my original point: The nid costs the same as an archon, but is significantly weaker. So the power/price statistic should be equalized across all carriers, supers and dreads.
Track your wealth with EVE Stats: https://ohheck.co.uk/EVEStats/home.php |
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 22:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Paikis wrote:iskflakes wrote:Paikis wrote:
Price should not be a balance point. If they need a change, then change them, but do not balance based on ISK.
Yeah I agree. A 1 million ISK ship that somebody spent 5 minutes earning the ISK for should be equally good as a 100 billion ISK ship that somebody spent a year working towards. That's a very nice strawman you've got there.
I lol'd
I love the nag, and i am getting into a nid soon, i would definitely like to see them improved in comparisson toother cap ships, but I agree that all cap ships need to be something other than sov warfare blobs or ratting aids. capital class integration into skirmish style warfare sounds to fun not to try for |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
182
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 23:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:In what way did I misrepresent your position?
Price is based on a number of things. One of which is popularity. Another is supply.
I remember Hookbills costing 30mil, yet now they cost only 10-13mil. Should we nerf the Hookbill by 60%?
I remember my first drake cost me 25mil, yet now they are closer to 60 mil... does the drake need buffing?
Another thing that price is based on is mineral cost. What if CCP put drone poo back into the game, suddenly the cost to produce ships drops due to large amounts of minerals flooding the market. Do those ships need to be nerfed now that they are cheaper?
What about modules? You will spend 5,000% more ISK to get an extra 0.025% bonus on a gyrostabilizer (T2 vs Rep fleet) should the T2 be nerfed? Or perhaps the RF should be buffed 5,000%?
What about skills? Rank 1 of a skill that gives 5% takes 12 minutes. Rank V of the same skill still only gives you 5%, but it takes you a week. Should this be changed?
Balancing based on ISK (or SP) required is silly. THAT is my position. |
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
Happy Cartel
16
|
Posted - 2012.09.28 00:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Archon is the best armor triage carrier in the game.
Lets take a look at what factors affect the balance between these two ships:
Archon vs Nidhoggur
- Unpiloted Archon has more PG than a Nidhoggur with a fully skilled pilot in it.
- Archon has a 12% bigger capacitor reservoir meaning longer effective Triage after jumping.
- Archons armor resist bonus helps both local tank and incoming rep after leaving triage.
- All of the Triage fits that I could come up with for the Nidhoggur have lower cap recharge than the Archons vanilla triage fit.
- Nidhoggur can't capitalize on its bonus because of fitting issues. (Thanatos doesn't have these issues.)
- Local Shield, Remote Armor requires PG implant.
- Local Armor, Remote Shield requires 6% CPU implant unless you use meta shield transfers.(lol)
- Fitting implants share slots with cap regen/amount implants and RR implants skewing balance further.
- Local Armor, Remote Armor (2xCAR+3xCRR) fit needs fitting mods/rigs that gimp cap or tank.
- Local Shield, Remote Shield (2xCSB+3xCST) fit needs fitting mods/rigs that gimp cap or tank.
- Nidhoggurs bonus only "effective"/self benefiting on a fleet level if all carriers in fleet are Nidhoggurs.
- Blue Pill boosters don't work on capital shield boosters.
- Exile boosters do work with capital armor repairers.
- Cap Power Relays gimp shield tank (-10% shield boost, stack with stacking penalty though), Cap Recharges have no drawbacks.
- Faction shield modules expensive compared to Faction Armor.
- (I guess drop rates are lower for shield, as are LP costs higher for shield too.)
- Capital Shield Modules burn out quicker than Capital Armor modules when overheating.
- Dual Armor Repper tank is more scalable and variable than a single booster tank. (Although you can overload Invulns)
- Archon has bonus to energy transfer range which synergizes well with armor fleets and chain-triaging a group of carriers.
This makes me to believe that CCP wants people to use Niddys/Thannies to Triage rep mixed tanked small mixed gangs, kitchen sink fleets and POSs.
Of course the Nidhoggur would be quite good and versatile if it was as good as the Archon but at the moment I feel the disparity is just too large... For the few fleets out there that call for a Shield Triage just get someone to use a Chimera its stats actually look pretty good.
If it were me I would start fixing the Nidhoggur by giving it at least the same fittings as a Thanatos as it currently has both lower CPU and PG... |
Alphaphi
The Illuminatii
Mildly Intoxicated
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.28 08:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
the problems the nidhoggur have:
fitting
tank
cap
i am flying a shieldtanked nid myself, and i have tried the armor tanked counterpart as well.
when flying shield takned: CPU issues
When flying armor tank : PG issues
the cap holds up poor, and the tank is lacking (both as shield and armor tanked)
while i love the ship, and it's the best carrier rep-amount wise, then it lacks some love.
same about the hel, except that the hel is decently tanked, but lacks some lowslots (1-2) |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
4908
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 22:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Capitals do not interact well with subcaps at present, because a capital blob will always be unkillable. However, individual capitals are too weak considering their cost, so some kind of mechanics change is needed.
Capitals were never intended to work alone - see the fact that you need a second character just to move between systems. A fleet of neuting Tempests can wreck unsupported supercapitals - while they will never kill off the entire blob due to ECM bursts and fighters chewing away at them one by one, they can cause meaningful damage.
The Nidhoggur is fine, the Hel needs some work, but capitals as a whole are fine.
please leave |
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