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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
S'vart Tseirgn World Wide Wallabies Manifest Destiny.	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:15:00 - [1] Yeah, they've been doing a lot of it in the name of balance. Ok, I agree - what's been getting nerfed did need a fix. But imho a lot of it goes a bit too far. For example - missile explosions. The sensible thing to do would have been look at what class of ship the missile is designed to kill, then balance the base explosion velocity to maybe 10% above the average speed for that particular class of ship. That way missiles/rockets/torpedoes etc are still able to kill their intended targets, but at the same time anyone who makes use of an Afterburner or similar would be able to outrun a large portion of the damage. Drones - I'll admit to not being a bit user of these, but from what I've observed it looks like it was just a case of a little too* far* again. Mediums being the classic example...everyone I've spoken hardly uses these at all now. Electronic Warfare in general - wow, where to start... The proposed changes to ecm are a little on the OTT side. Sure I agree that 200K is a little bit on the far side for a falcon/rook to be jamming people (and I'm a falcon pilot!). So bring it back to 125-150, and have virtually no falloff with ecm. As it is, 70K is too close, and the way jammers are set up atm, once you're operating in falloff they become useless very rapidly (despite the long falloff). Damps should be the perfect counter to ecm. They force the falcon/rook/blackbird/scorpion in close to the fight where it then becomes vulnerable. Well, until it can get a jam in (or dies) and move back to range. Of course, as soon as it misses a jam the ranges close again...and so the cycle repeats. Recon & other ewar classes are force multipliers. By themselves they are limited on the damage they can deal (excepting the curse/pilgrim due to the drone bay and skill bonus). And this is how they should be - unable to deal any real damage, but able to incapacitate/debilitate the enemy sensors and ships...making them more vulnerable to the main combat ships. Of course, the main principle of these ships is also that they're incredibly fragile...so survivability comes through decent range buffers or speed tanks. Both of which CCP seem to be doing their best to remove unfortunately. I guess what I'm getting at here, is that the balancing needs to be re-checked and made to fit, rather than just whacking anything that's popular. It's called tall poppy syndrome when you start doing that I think....
JVol Amarr The IMorral MAjority	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:22:00 - [2] Edited by: JVol on 05/04/2009 02:26:55 Id have to agree with you. It seems like the let things not only get wildly out of whack, but they let is STAY outta whack WAY longer than Id think they should. I mean the nano thing was SO bad for SO long its kinda funny. You had guys playing for TWO years who joined the game and never knew the game before it, they couldnt understand wtf the vets were talking about 'pre-nano'...
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:45:00 - [3] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 05/04/2009 02:54:04 70km+(huge)falloff is too close for what...? and about missles: since you can pick your damage type, it is safe to assume you pick the best kind. so technically, missile boats should be par with projectile - tremor-m-arties for example when it comes to heavy missiles now compare those EFT numbers. you can't be par with EFT lasers; they have to deal em/thm to armor no matter what - you just switch to explo or (bonus'ed) kinetic. the more missile topics you make, the closer it gets you to a (proper) nerf, 'cause the new formula just wasn't one either - i remember the <1 dmg notifications and even afterburning frigs dont get those against citadel torps anymore - putting the gist back into logistics
Rhea Vhan	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Rhea Vhan on 05/04/2009 02:52:31 Agreed. Tone down the overnerfs plz!
S'vart Tseirgn World Wide Wallabies Manifest Destiny.	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:52:00 - [5] Survival. Recons are slow-moving, paper-thin ships. Please note, this isn't a rant about the way recons are going. I was just using that as an example of CCP's over the top methodolgy with nerfs.
Quurohok	Posted - 2009.04.05 03:22:00 - [6] on the one hand, i will say that balancing a game as complex and as player driven as eve has got to be a hard thing. even if CCP does something, there is no guarantee that some players aren't going to find a way to take advantage of that in a way CCP never intended. that being said i would agree with the notion that CCP, in the interest of balancing, could definitely improve their performance by taking action on these issues much quicker (exp. the nano thing, CCP has repeatedly said that most ships weren't supposed to work that way to begin with in defense of the nerf. but if that were true, why not implement it earlier?). personally, for the missile nerf, something i have seen often brought up is the fact that missiles "always hit" unlike other weapons, but unlike these other weapons (unless i am extremely mistaken) missiles have a definite counter... defender missiles. admittedly i have yet to find a real player that can use them effectively in PVP, and the real use of them is in missions, but i still find it odd to not see it brought up for even a bit of debate (or if i am missing it, please post a link to where i can find it). but i digress, a valid point i think s'vart but i find it difficult to conceive of CCP doing anything else. i would rather have many gradual changes done in relatively quick succession to help find the "sweet spot" in balance, but i doubt it would be feasible for CCP to do with the programming and resources needed. for now, i'll keep paying for what is still a rather excellent game of internet spaceships and b**ching till the cows come home.
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.04.05 04:25:00 - [7] Congratulations, your thread is even more pointless than the average nonsense. Let me break it down for you. Missiles - That's exactly how it was done. If you want to make a commentary on their current state, provide some numbers or stop talking. Mind you, even if you decide to man up I've got numbers to show the complete opposite. Drones - Everyone you've spoken to is irrelevant, and in no way a measure of balance. Did all your peeps brag about their hot **** medium dronez before the nerf? Or was it business as usual? Again, if you want to make a commentary about the dangers of nerfing, start by showing how medium drones getting nerfed made the game worse. Last I checked though, they hit cruiser sized targets just fine and dandy (like sour candy). ECM - ECM isn't getting nerfed, it's getting boosted. Have you checked the strength bonuses? They went up. Making something better in a certain situation (close range) while making it worse in another (long range) isn't called nerfing, its called repurposing roles. I'm sure the multitude of brave men out there who aren't using their Falcons as giant cloaking cowardmobiles will be happy with the changes. Nerfing - Making a general, and all around stupid commentary on nerfing doesn't bring together what is essentially a whine about three completely unrelated game changes. Or just plain game changes. Your suggestion of rebalancing without the nerf is some of the most overused and hyperflaccid tripe currently found on these forums. I can forgive you for bringing it up, but not if you actually believe in it.
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.04.05 04:27:00 - [8] nerfing an ecm/-ship is everytime the right thing to do! but deleting will be much better and save time!
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.04.05 04:38:00 - [9] If they delete ECM just to save people's time, they're going to have to delete you too ;'(
Valkorsia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.05 05:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Dr Resheph If they delete ECM just to save people's time, they're going to have to delete you too ;'( Just delete Caldari; problem solved. That's what CCP just did anyway if these changes go live. Don't train Amarr, they are next for the nerf bat and overdue. Once the cycle to nerf begins, it never really ends.

Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.04.05 05:29:00 - [11] Whoa. For some reason that post made me visualize Rihanna's umbrella getting ruined and Justin Timberlake getting washed away in a flash flood. Damn you mainstream pop.
Kowaii Rabbit o1nk	Posted - 2009.04.05 09:51:00 - [12] Originally by: S'vart Tseirgn Yeah, they've been doing a lot of it in the name of balance. Ok, I agree - what's been getting nerfed did need a fix. But imho a lot of it goes a bit too far... I guess what I'm getting at here, is that the balancing needs to be re-checked and made to fit, rather than just whacking anything that's popular. It's called tall poppy syndrome when you start doing that I think.... This. For a game 6 odd years old, it's time it came out of beta and the occasional bit of tweaking was used to solve issues. The blanket sledgehammer approach, used every time, just lacks finesse. Must be easy to get a job in CCP. http://www.ezy-english.com/
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.05 10:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Dr Resheph Congratulations, your thread is even more pointless than the average nonsense. Let me break it down for you. [...] Nerfing - Making a general, and all around stupid commentary on nerfing doesn't bring together what is essentially a whine about three completely unrelated game changes. Or just plain game changes. Your suggestion of rebalancing without the nerf is some of the most overused and hyperflaccid tripe currently found on these forums. I can forgive you for bringing it up, but not if you actually believe in it. Thank you, you saved me a lot of time i'd have to spend writing and preparing to back my rant up with numbers. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Oghma Grianainech Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.04.05 13:37:00 - [14] thumbs up!
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.04.05 14:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Kowaii Rabbit For a game 6 odd years old, it's time it came out of beta and the occasional bit of tweaking was used to solve issues. The blanket sledgehammer approach, used every time, just lacks finesse. Must be easy to get a job in CCP. Its adorable how you think these changes are somehow big and important. You must be new to EVE, as with the OP. I see one of these "please dont nurf think of da kittanz :((" threads every time there's a change. I can understand if there's like 24561346 changes in a single patch and they're all hard to understand but this?
Green Cobra	Posted - 2009.04.05 16:53:00 - [16] Bump
Gilbert T Gallente Fulcrum Mercenary Services	Posted - 2009.04.06 10:06:00 - [17] I think they just need to stop nerfing things period. Create newer, better, and/or more creative ways to counter things that are imbalanced. Don't make the ships and modules I skilled for change magically overnight.
Bonny Lee Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.04.06 11:03:00 - [18] Jeah it would be so clever to introduce lots of new **** which is a lot harder to balance to get the same effect as one simple nerf. Get over it CCP is doing well. Sometimes you get nerf sometimes you get boost... but please dont cry like a child if you got hit.
Gilbert T Gallente Fulcrum Mercenary Services	Posted - 2009.04.06 11:14:00 - [19] The methods of their "balancing" are just idiotic. Log in one day and your ship has magically changed shape, log in another day and your other ship works completely differently, or even better, has more guns or launchers than it does hardpoints. Sure, add more **, make ** more complicated. I'm sick of my stuff just transforming overnight.
Kowaii Rabbit o1nk	Posted - 2009.04.06 11:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Dr Resheph Originally by: Kowaii Rabbit For a game 6 odd years old, it's time it came out of beta and the occasional bit of tweaking was used to solve issues. The blanket sledgehammer approach, used every time, just lacks finesse. Must be easy to get a job in CCP. Its adorable how you think these changes are somehow big and important. You must be new to EVE, as with the OP. I see one of these "please dont nurf think of da kittanz :((" threads every time there's a change. I can understand if there's like 24561346 changes in a single patch and they're all hard to understand but this? That tin foil cap of yours needs to be 5 sizes smaller http://www.ezy-english.com/



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