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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
135
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Posted - 2012.05.30 09:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most drone boats are balanced to be equal having no damage mods for drones available, so why don't you get some cheese for that whine? CCP want to give drone users some more options and they have to do it carefully, however it's not like the modules seem to knock Eve over...
Here is how I would distribute the stats:
Meta 0: 15% / 27 cpu
Meta 1: 16% / 28 cpu
Meta 2: 17% / 29 cpu
Meta 3: 18% / 30 cpu
Meta 4: 19% / 31 cpu
Meta 5: 20% / 32 cpu
Faction: 20% / 27 cpu
Pirate: 21% / 32 cpu
19% or 20% doesn't make a big difference as the original drone dps isn't capable of getting very high, and my OCD tells me 15% and 20% looks good ;-) |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
135
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
I find it very hard to read your text since you compulsively activated your caps lock...
As I just wrote to you most drone ships are already balanced towards not having any drone damage modules available and CCP want to carefully test the grounds instead of creating a monster...
Yes these modules might not boost drones as much as other modules do for other weapon groups, but you fail to realize drones being different in many ways...
You could very well have a valid point on the module not giving same damage multiplier as other similar modules, but you fail to convince anyone purely from the fact you can't present yourself with any authority while acting like a juvenile...
Maybe tell us why the difference in skills doesn't warrant the difference? Tell us how the module wont tip the balance between ships when drones and ships are balanced against a world without? If not then at least stop holding your caps lock as a captive and spare my eyes...
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
135
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 08:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
I saw you mentioning something about none of the drone boats being overpowered?
To my knowledge the Dominix has been one of the most usefull battleships all around sporting a nasty slot layout and some good attributes:
- Neut dominix -> Nasty
- Gank Dominix (blasters and drones) -> Nasty
- Nano Dominix (nerfed) -> Nasty
- NOS Dominix (nerfed) -> Nasty
- PvE Dominix -> Effecient even w/ low dps
Arbitrator and Vexor are super nice cruisers. Even when Thorax was king of lowsec the Vexor could nuke it... I've seen Vexors and Arbitrators single handed kill Hacs, Recons (including their own T2 variants), battlecruisers and battleships.
Myrmidon got nerfed because it was overpowered, but if you do a mix of drones to utilize your entire bandwith at once and fill in guns you can get a hell of a dps out of it while keeping a solid buffer and even a solid repper setup.
I'm not saying any of the drone boats are overpowered as they are, however they are definately not lacking dps so I understand CCP trying to start out carefully with a possible buff coming out later instead of having to nerf them after a week... |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
135
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 09:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yet again you fail to understand drone ships are balanced to be equal with other ships WITHOUT having drone damage modules, so CCP wants to make sure they don't tip the balance too much...
This comparison cannot be made by making a straight dps comparison as many other factors are present.
Have you seen what the Ishtar has been transformed into? Most other HACs sport about 400-500 damage, however the Ishtar goes from 475 to 730 dps with drones only and 3 damage modules. A perfectly viable setup with a nano/shield setup.
My finger counting tells me a buff on the modules to 22% would make that almost 50 dps better which in itself is a small number, but easily a major difference...
I don't know why CCP stopped at 19% however they came up from about 12% initially so why don't you stop crying about getting robbed when you just received an EXTRA option compared before the module was introduced. I understand your frustration as you seem to have multiple personal issues, but if you want something changed you HAVE to come up with a deeper analysis of why you think drone damage amplifier T2 version should be 22% instead of crying about how modules for other weapon systems are built up.
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
All I was saying is few people will be convinced for Darkstars opinion if he doesn't present it properly with a few documentable arguments... If people want things changed they should take a mature step towards ccp and save their tears for when their mommy won't give them a cookie :-)
Tbh I don't disagree drone damage modules being put a little too low, however the arguments go deeper than crying about how stats on other modules look as they are not identical in how they work.
Tank:
I think you misunderstood my point. I believe Drone Navigation Computers is an extra option that will give drone users an advantage in certain situations. Having medium drones able to catch up with frigates seems nice. Having your heavy drones reach their target faster seems nice. Usually people prefer other modules due to limited medslots, but the option is still there...
I rarely use the guns on an ishtar, however that doesn't mean the Ishtar is a bad ship. It's excellent at kiting while having drones deal heavy damage. With a shield/kite setup the Ishtar can deal out amazing dps if it's possible to stay out of harms way.
Ishtar is far from the worst HAC even while not using guns - The dominix has a hybrid bonus too but it's still a mean machine even without. I don't know why people stopped using Ishtars for pvp, but I believe it's because other ships have become more dominant and not because it suddenly sucks.
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 08:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Darkstar : If you cannot argue properly for your own opinion nobody will listen to you... I agree I cannot find any reasons to limit the new T2 drone module at 19%, however at the same time I disagree to put it at 22% only because other modules give such a bonus to different weapon platforms.
Also the ships with drone bonus and ability to launch heavy drones need to have their damage bonus adjusted to be in line with gunnery bonuses i.e. 10% pr level -> 5% pr level.
Otherwise the Ishtar and possible the Dominix will be way too imbalanced compared to other ships
Tank : If you would ask a neutral unbiased question about that module it would be a better answer. There is a difference between good and balanced. The drone navigation computer isn't a bad module...
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hey Darkstar - when you say the drone module shold have the same bonus towards drones as other damage modules have towards their weapon system, shouldn't we reduce the ship bonus from 10% to 5% like the ship bonus for other weapon systems?
Tank - Maybe it's just hard to make up a coherent answer when the question you made up was biased. You never get a real answer if you try to manipulate people into a specific answer...
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 00:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tank... I guess it's hard to communicate internationally on a high level for us "foreigners"...
But if you feel big about it go ahead :-)
I'd be more focused to see what CCP will do about ships like the Ishtar suddenly capable of pulling way more dps than any other HAC? I agree with the caps dude 19% seems weird. 20% or 22% doesn't matter as much as the drone ships having a 10% drone bonus giving the game a few balance spikes...
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 09:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Even though I perhaps should have written most instead of any the Ishtar can still put out more dps...
This does 934 dps (975 dps overheated), however has plenty cpu available for 1-2 MagStabs and as you rigs and implants can upgrade it even further and even beat your overheated numbers.
Yes, the heavy drones are not the fastest or best tracking but application of dps doesn't seem worse than deimos - just different... Ishtar is a nasty support boat like this capable of out dps'ing some battleships even...
Btw if you want to nidpick instead of debate why don't you just tell me how you really feel?
[Ishtar, You can haz satisfaction?]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Ogre II x5 |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Perhaps not, however it is close and no worse than the same Deimos you guys want to fly:
992 dps + overheat and implants. It has drawbacks and limited target selection but the same can be said about your Deimos. Give it up - Maybe the Ishtar doesn't beat ALL other HACs but it's pretty close... This setup goes well as a support ship doing damage from range and going in for the kill or getting under the guns on certain battleships
[Ishtar, 1k dps Ishtar]
Internal Force Field Array I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Ogre II x5
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 21:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's a problem with the Ishtar because it can deal out more dps than most HACs and it can do it while at range... Ishtars are pretty evasive. And I don't give up, I just think it's pretty pedantric of you to keep discussion going on such a childish level. Good luck with your further protests on the drone module
Pinky |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
You are trying too hard...
Your deimos need to go in close as well and doesn't seem too solid either. At least the Ishtar can be a fleet support from range where the deimos will be useless. Versatility 4tw...
Try to get out of your tunnel vision. I never claimed the Ishtar was better at everything, only that it could out dps any/most of the other ships in its class. Ishtar was great solo before the nano nerf, but it has always been a super support ship for small fleets and now it became almost 50% better. As with any ship it's important to have a proper target selection and since deimos and ishtar has different roles they will never be directly compareable.
The debate was only to show that with these new damage modules certain ships have received a massive boost even with only 19% bonus on the module... You guys seem to lose the big picture trying to pull the debate into details with little relevans just so you can prove me wrong. You already pointed out I didn't word myself with surgeon precission and described how heavy drones isn't the best weapon system in EVE, but you still haven't commented on the things that really matter
- Ishtar DPS boosted almost 55% DPS w/ 3 mods in a shield/kite configuration (475 -> 733 DPS with drones only)
- Ishtar (and Deimos) can out dps the other HACs with a huge margin
- But the Ishtar can do it from 60km when working with a tackler
- Drones might not be perfect but people cannot use ecm to negate Ishtar DPS
- Ishtar can switch to other drones for other types of targets (With a loss of DPS)
Pinky |
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