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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Vaako Horizon
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31
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
MalVortex wrote:I realize there is already a team Super Friends feedback thread, however, the changes brought on by Team Super friends are extensive, and most of the thread is hereto date dedicated just to when Sisi will go live. As such, I feel its prudent to start a new thread for concise discussion.
As it stands, the Extrinsic Damage Amplifier II (henceforth EDA) is a 12% damage bonus for non-fighter drones, on a 40tf CPU module. This is, quite frankly, terrible. In fact, its so bad that I have to question if this is just a placeholder stat.
Your bog-standard T2 damage mod has two stats: 10% Damage Bonus 10.5% Rate of Fire Bonus
Combined, this results in a 22.9% damage increase *per* module. All turret modules cost 30CPU for their T2 variant, and the BCU's cost 40cpu for their T2 variant (presumably due to the higher than average CPU output of most missile boats).
Even worse, drone boats often come with the "drone-boat" tax. They have worse fittings, and fewer slots, than comparable non-drone vessels. This fitting tax insures that drone boats don't become OP killing machines with immense tanks and damage, but it also means they often wind up very tight on fittings. A 40cpu mod is absolutely ridiculous for most drone boats to try to squeeze on.
In other words, the EDA is terrible in two directions: 1) It provides half the damage bonus of regular damage modules 2) It costs 33% more fitting than standard damage modules, on top of the CPU limited nature of drone ships.
Perhaps the greatest insult, however, is that drones are already a low-damage platform. For all intents and purposes, drone damage caps out with the 50% hull bonus on Ogre IIs at 475 dps. For Ships like the Arbitrator line, that caps out with Hammerhead IIs at 238 dps. Even the standard 23% damage module may be too weak for them to work on these hulls as a competitive fitting option. We won't know until these are at least buffed to 23% and fits are played around with, but Domi's can do a *lot* more damage with guns than 475 dps. If we are to fit drone damage mods over regular old damage mods, they need to be pulling their weight in the opportunity-cost comparison.
To start balance testing, the EDA needs to be brought down to 30 CPU and 23% total DPS modifier. As it stands, the single 12% damage module will find use ONLY on ships with the following parameters:
1) Can deploy a full set of heavy or sentry drones 2) Cannot fit battleship class weapons
That limits the EDA's *entire* potential usefulness to select Ishtar and Gila fits, and maaaybe a few Domi's that completely forsake any turrets at all (such as ambulance, neut, or herd domis). Every other ship, including ships like the Curse, can get much better bang for their buck just fitting regular weapons (like Railguns or HMLs) and/or regular damage mods.
edit:
I agreed with Shish so much below I wanted to add this to the OP. EDA's in the lowslot are going to be a balancing nightmare, as many Drone ships rely on a strict lowslot allotment to tank, while others like the Dominix could potentially "double dip" Damage Mods and wind up with 1500+ DPS in shield-gank configurations. EDA's should be moved to become a highslot module in addition to the above changes to create fitting tension with the ship. As a high slot item, they can take advatnage of the utility highs many drone ships are given, while counter balancing against the need for neuts, turrets, and missile launchers for other sources of DPS.
Drone Control Units - EDA's elder brother - are also highslots, making this a much more natural feel than lowslot EDAs. It also creates natural tension when fitting those highslots as Drone Link Augmenters are also up there. Would you like neuts, smartbombs, cloaks, more damaging drones or longer range drones? That's some good opportunity cost decisions to make that simply don't exist in the lows.
I agree 100%, these should be high slots!! and have more dps |
Vaako Horizon
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31
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:Making it an high slot(and turret/missiles) item would:
- increase the tank(mag stabs/bcu slots could be used to increase the tank)
- give drone users the ability to avoid training gunnery(or missiles) skills at all
- increase drone dps to such a point that it would equal that of turrets. (so 5 ogres/sentries+7 EDA in a bonused ship would do about 1200dps)
- make drones a scalable weapon system, not stuck at 500dps.
But i see i'm talking about something completely different here. So sticking to reality: make it an utility high slot, the increase in dps wont be so high to overpower ships.
+7 EDA? woot? that will make the drone range very limited ( 65km ), I'd really love 1200 dps on my rattle but the range is unacceptable, I would go something like 1 t2 cruise missile, 2x drone link augmentor and then rest EDA's |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
31
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just Alter wrote:Oh well, that ends it then.
Good module anyway, just not easy to adapt to.
A lot of fits will change to accomodate this.
Mine wont, as this remains a lowslot its comparable to junk since it will mess up any tank :P |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
31
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:Rattlesnake with these as high slot.....
..... yes please :D
exactlly, because our launchers do little to no damage :P rattlesnakes ftw |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
32
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Posted - 2012.05.05 20:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Its CCP we are talking about.... you know, those ppl that say they listen to the community. They wont listen to us now in regards to making this module high slot ( limited to turret/launcher slots )
Also... I see a few ships mentioned but I see almost no mentioning of the rattlesnake... I think above all ships ( drone ships ) the rattle needs the most love, give us these highslots ( 4x launchers without ship bonus is crap ) |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
32
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Posted - 2012.05.06 08:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
MalVortex wrote:Regarding the requests for the Rattlesnake, I'll admit I forgot to run the numbers on her.. Kind of shows where the rattler is for PVP combat eh?
The rattlesnake actually loves EDA. Of every drone ship I've looked at so far, it has a massive, unadulterated lust for them. CN Torps from T2 launchers only do 273 dps off the rattlesnake, while Ogre IIs start off at 475. Even with roughly double the scaling power on BCU, the low initial damage numbers from the torps simply can't be made up compared to the high (comparatively) starting damage numbers of Large Drones. Plus it has a ton of lowslots and relatively few good ways to spend them after BCUs.
Just eyeballing the numbers, it looks like 2x BCU, 2x EDA on the Scorpion would be the optimal setup. If you want 5 damage mods, its almost a dead heat in which adds more. Third EDA adds more with Ogre IIs out, Third BCU adds more with any other drone out. So if you want 5x Damage mod Scorp, its really up to personal preference.
the rattle's LOW missile damage ( useless even in pve ) makes me want these EDA in highslot, to replace the missles in favor of the drones...
I do tons and tons of more dps in my domi because the guns are far better then missiles :P and it also has somewhat of a better tank despite the rattles passive abilitys. I only stay in my rattle because it needs less attention and that makes multiboxing easier. |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
32
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Posted - 2012.05.07 12:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Love the ideas in this thread.
+1 for making drones and droneboats a viable full-fledged weapon system.
I am happy you agree with us but I am sad to say its not gonna happen... its CCP we are talking about... |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
32
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Posted - 2012.05.09 03:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:It ain't gonna be a hgh slot mod.
They said so and they even gave a reason.
This isn't the final balance for drones, this just a start.
It's a low slot damage mod. It is not going to be the last thing that drones get.
Expect Drone Control Units to be coming to a subcap near you.
DCU would be nice to subcaps, as a role bonus to drone boats. it, by it self, will increase our much needed dps ( and also making drone boats more of actual drone boats then an attempt at some hybrid which they all are today ) |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
32
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Posted - 2012.05.10 00:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
If people/CCP fear this damage mod( and its requested high slot) so much just give the drone boats a role bonus to fit DCU's |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
33
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Posted - 2012.05.11 21:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:The Myrmidon should get a 100 mb bandwidth, having only 75mb makes is a joke. Its dps is barely much better than a vexor.
Morons completely forget that Drones are destroyable. If DPS of drones is the problem, then shoot the drones.
Gameplay should not be balanced based on the lowest possible ******** dumbass.
We all love you too! :D |
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
33
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Posted - 2012.05.12 16:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
ofc that is the case... you all seem to forget its CCP we are talking about. Their "listening to the players" is nothing more then "lets *BEEP* em up" |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
33
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Posted - 2012.05.14 06:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.
Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km.
not gimping the rattle? well that depends if you are running active or passive tanking ( I must admit I am a little overtanked on the passive part, 6x power shield relay II + 2x Large shield extender II + 1x shield recharger II + 3x large core defense field purger II = gives me 434 hps peak recharge ) |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
33
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Posted - 2012.05.14 10:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Leto Artreides wrote:Vaako Horizon wrote:Lipbite wrote:Dedicated 10 drones sub-capital droneboats without hi-slot weapons, please. Light carriers.
Because right now the only ship where I can see this module in low slots without gimping tank into oblivion - it is Rattle. Meanwhile those 25km 400dpstotal torpedoes and Domi's blasters are useless like 80% of time in Caldari missions where 80% of battleship orbit at 35-60km. not gimping the rattle? well that depends if you are running active or passive tanking ( I must admit I am a little overtanked on the passive part, 6x power shield relay II + 2x Large shield extender II + 1x shield recharger II + 3x large core defense field purger II = gives me 434 hps peak recharge ) I don't think you really need to be able to tank 3.5k dps, with 3 dmg mods you can still tank 1400 which is still more than enough to snooze through missions :z
I told ya I was a bit over tanked :D |
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