EVE Search - Discussion about Tech3 production process and prices

All Channels

Science and Industry

Discussion about Tech3 production process and prices

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.06 13:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 06/04/2009 13:14:29 Greetings, I really wanted to start a vital and realistic discussion about the whole production process of tech3 ships and the estimated price range of these ships. Though I don't really am into production or mining that much, so I don't have actual facts yet. Given the stats of these cruisers and the still to be released version 4 and 5 of the subsystems, I would assume that a realistic price range of a tech3 cruiser is about 400 mio ISK whereas you cannot compare it to prices of command cruisers, as they are atm boosted due to material shortage. One of the few facts I already have is, that a single max skilled Gas Miner would need 24 hours of constant mining (without breakes, without hauling etc) to gather all the gas to build the tech3 components for one tech3 ship hull and 5 subsystems (or 1 complete tech3 cruiser). Now given the moderate dangerous area to harvest in (WH space is still pretty empty in terms of players passing through, and sleepers don't respawn in gas clouds), one could savely assume that a gas miner want to have a minimum income of 10 mio ISK/hour (which is pretty moderate, comparing to risk free missioning in high sec... grrr, get rid of lvl 4 missions in high sec already, CCP..) So the gas alone will cost AT LEAST 240 mio for a tech3 cruiser. If I ain't wrong on the numbers that is, ofc. So CCP, how is one supposed to produce tech3 cruisers at a reasonable price at all? Increase the gas yield of Gas Harvester modules a lot.. at least double it. Anyone else who got some figures?
Jana Clant New Dawn Tribe New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:13:00 - [2] You have an excellent point with the gas mining, miners would most definitely want 10 million per hour for their efforts, or more. It doesn't end there, though. To create a hull BPC, you need a hull section, which can be obtained from certain mid-level hacking sites. The complex itself will generally require about 3-4 people to run with any level of efficiency, and the ships need to be well fitted, even then having a chance of getting blown up. The complex will usually provide 1 (on some cases 2) hull sections, usually wrecked ones. A wrecked hull goes for about 200 million if I recall correctly, so that's 50 million for each player. At this point it's already not really worth the trouble of even going into W-space, considering the amount of time spent probing, the inherent risk of an essentially lawless system, and that L4's can get you about 20 million per hour risk-free. On top of that, the hull section only gives you a chance to get a BPC, at which point you then have to spend even more ISK on materials to get the actual hull built. TL;DR: I doubt the cruisers will ever drop to the 400m mark if CCP doesn't increase the amount of hacking/archeology item drops, as well as making fullerites have smaller volumes so they can be mined faster. New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:14:00 - [3] Linkage So at rock-bottom material prices (far, far below current values, and below what you would realistically hope to achieve even layer on in the game), ignoring reverse engineer cost (which is also quite high, especially for "in demand" subsystems), it's nearly 400 mil ISK for a full ship. Realistically, the equilibrium price after saturation will probably hover around 1 bil ISK for a decent finished T3 ship the very least. _ The problem with EVE \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:17:00 - [4] Edited by: Braaage on 06/04/2009 14:21:22 My current spreadsheet (updated Saturday) prices the Loki and 5 subsystems at 559,663,433 ISK. But that's going to be under most people's estimates since I bought most of the high end materials at half the market price. Edit - which is cost, doesn't include POS fuel and structures and all the failed Reverse Engineering attempts (which comes to about 1.4Bill). -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:23:00 - [5] Originally by: Jana Clant To create a hull BPC, you need a hull section, which can be obtained from certain mid-level hacking sites. Just to clarify here, you are talking about getting Ancient Relics, not actual Hulls or Hull BPCs? -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:30:00 - [6] @Akita: the prices listed in your linked thread are a bit off though. At least for the gas. My corp mined gas in WH space for the last two weeks, so its safe to assume that: C540 gas will be double the price of C320 C320 gas will be four times the price of C32 And the rest of the fullerites will be at a fraction of the cost of the three above gases. Considering the frequency and volume of gas clouds we have found so far.
Jana Clant New Dawn Tribe New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Braaage Originally by: Jana Clant To create a hull BPC, you need a hull section, which can be obtained from certain mid-level hacking sites. Just to clarify here, you are talking about getting Ancient Relics, not actual Hulls or Hull BPCs? Yes, Wrecked Hull Section is the relic you get from those complexes. You use it to reverse engineer a hull BPC, which you then use the build the hull. New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
Jana Clant New Dawn Tribe New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki @Akita: the prices listed in your linked thread are a bit off though. At least for the gas. My corp mined gas in WH space for the last two weeks, so its safe to assume that: C540 gas will be double the price of C320 C320 gas will be four times the price of C32 And the rest of the fullerites will be at a fraction of the cost of the three above gases. Considering the frequency and volume of gas clouds we have found so far. I was just reading that thread, and from what I understand, those prices are based on the fullerite volume changes currently in SiSi. New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.06 14:54:00 - [9] I highly doubt that braage needs a reminder of the tech3 process, as he wrote the guide on eve-guides.com ^^ For the gas prices: yes, the prices in the linked thread were calculated pre-apocrypha release, so it doesn't take into account the volume of the gas clouds and its distribution mechanic. So eventhough C32, C320 and C540 are the ones with 10m¦ volume per unit, C540 is waaayyy less common than C320. And C32 can actually be found in medium difficult WH space.
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2009.04.06 15:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Jana Clant Originally by: Braaage Originally by: Jana Clant To create a hull BPC, you need a hull section, which can be obtained from certain mid-level hacking sites. Just to clarify here, you are talking about getting Ancient Relics, not actual Hulls or Hull BPCs? Yes, Wrecked Hull Section is the relic you get from those complexes. You use it to reverse engineer a hull BPC, which you then use the build the hull. Ok, the way you worded that I just wondered if you was finding actual Hulls and the BPCs in the complexes -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more
Tester128	Posted - 2009.04.06 16:04:00 - [11] that's an interesting insight into gas mining, so obviously ccp should increase minig amount or decrease gas consumption for t3 if they are going to make it an affordable ship Now from the point of view of WH exploration. The amount of hull sections drop should be increased at least 5-10 times. Now you are lucky to find a single cont with hull part in 3-4 plexes and again, it's 1 hull part per 2-3 conts on average for me. Jita prices on hull clearly indicate that the drop is too low. Another thing is than datacore drop should be increased in wh radars. By current jita prices there should be about 10 times more datacores. At the moment the datacore price constitutes to 80-90% price of reverse engineering job. Seems that ccp considers datacores lowly commodity for 3+ level w-space and they drop in large amounts only in L1-2 wh radars. The boost in relic drops was fine, now the relic prices are more or less sane. Amount of decryptors and rams alsoo seems to be ok so far.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.07 06:37:00 - [12] Well, imho you cannot compare current jita prices to drop rates. Tech3 stuff is new, and with every new stuff it comes in waaayyy overpriced for the rich bastards to get their hands on new items first for e-peen and stuff. Interesting aspect that tech3 datacores may have higher drop rates and bigger amount in low difficulty wh systems. Anyone else can confirm this? Oh and has anybody done a RADAR or magnetometric core site yet? Guess the numbers of ancient relays are much better in these sites than in perimeter and frontier ones?
GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.07 09:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Jana Clant You have an excellent point with the gas mining, miners would most definitely want 10 million per hour for their efforts, or more. No, miner want much more than 10 mill/hour since they can make this easily in hisec mining veldspar. In 0.0 40-50 mill/hour is possible. So why a miner would want to mine gases in w-space for 10 mill/hour since he can make 4-5 times as much in a relatively safe alliance controlled territory? So if CCP does not change the yield considerably, T3 prices will stay the same.
Sicardae Bad'ia	Posted - 2009.04.07 10:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Jana Clant Originally by: Braaage Originally by: Jana Clant To create a hull BPC, you need a hull section, which can be obtained from certain mid-level hacking sites. Just to clarify here, you are talking about getting Ancient Relics, not actual Hulls or Hull BPCs? Yes, Wrecked Hull Section is the relic you get from those complexes. You use it to reverse engineer a hull BPC, which you then use the build the hull. But, is it just me, or do they always seem to deliver a 3 run bpc, so the wrecked hull section/rev.engineering job cost / 3 = hull bpc cost
Mining Bunnz Equatorial Industires	Posted - 2009.04.07 14:25:00 - [15] Quote: Interesting aspect that tech3 datacores may have higher drop rates and bigger amount in low difficulty wh systems. Anyone else can confirm this? My experience differs. Low class w-space (2/3/4) is lucky to drop a single decryptor from each can in a radar site (8 cans or so). Higher class w-space (5/6) were dropping multiple decryptors per can (14 cans). As for gas, I had a single w-space system last week spawn a cloud of 6,000 units of C540 and 1,500 units of C320 and in the same w-space system, another cloud with 6,000 units of C320 and 1,500 units of C540. I think the gas miners just need to get into deeper, better class systems to start the gases flowing.
Operater3	Posted - 2009.04.07 16:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Mining Bunnz Quote: Interesting aspect that tech3 datacores may have higher drop rates and bigger amount in low difficulty wh systems. Anyone else can confirm this? My experience differs. Low class w-space (2/3/4) is lucky to drop a single decryptor from each can in a radar site (8 cans or so). Higher class w-space (5/6) were dropping multiple decryptors per can (14 cans). As for gas, I had a single w-space system last week spawn a cloud of 6,000 units of C540 and 1,500 units of C320 and in the same w-space system, another cloud with 6,000 units of C320 and 1,500 units of C540. I think the gas miners just need to get into deeper, better class systems to start the gases flowing. impressive volumes but the problem is harvesting that amount. More gas doesn't solve the problem of reasonable time invested in the process.
Tester128	Posted - 2009.04.07 23:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Mining Bunnz My experience differs. Low class w-space (2/3/4) is lucky to drop a single decryptor from each can in a radar site (8 cans or so). Higher class w-space (5/6) were dropping multiple decryptors per can (14 cans). don't mix decryptors and datacores. it is the drop of the datacores i was talking about
Theodor Spedes	Posted - 2009.04.08 04:22:00 - [18] How about environmental effects that impact yield?
Xessej	Posted - 2009.04.08 05:42:00 - [19] I'm in a dedicated wormhole exploitation corp. All we do is get raw materials for t3 production. Class 3 radar and magnetometric sites drop a fair amount of ancient relics and datacores, decryptors, RAM's but but when you take into account it takes a gang of 3 to 5 to safely complete the site the rewards presently don't greatly exceed L4 missioning and this is in psuedo nullsec where risk is higher so reward is expected to be better. Ladars are the real hard part. There just aren't that many and the stuff takes forever to mine. 10m3 units of gas make for very low quantities. Ultimately as long as the site spawn rate stays the way it is it will be very hard for serious producers to produce in quantity to bring prices down.
jujub33 Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.04.08 10:25:00 - [20] Edited by: jujub33 on 08/04/2009 10:25:53 Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki @Akita: the prices listed in your linked thread are a bit off though. At least for the gas. My corp mined gas in WH space for the last two weeks, so its safe to assume that: C540 gas will be double the price of C320 C320 gas will be four times the price of C32 And the rest of the fullerites will be at a fraction of the cost of the three above gases. Considering the frequency and volume of gas clouds we have found so far. This doesn't make as much sense because c320 is just as rare as c540, but you need 7 reactions worth of Carbon-86 (c320), as opposed to only 3 reactions worth of C3-acid (c540) to make one full cruiser.
jujub33 Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.04.08 10:34:00 - [21] Edited by: jujub33 on 08/04/2009 10:35:11 Originally by: Xessej I'm in a dedicated wormhole exploitation corp. All we do is get raw materials for t3 production. Class 3 radar and magnetometric sites drop a fair amount of ancient relics and datacores, decryptors, RAM's but but when you take into account it takes a gang of 3 to 5 to safely complete the site the rewards presently don't greatly exceed L4 missioning and this is in psuedo nullsec where risk is higher so reward is expected to be better. Ladars are the real hard part. There just aren't that many and the stuff takes forever to mine. 10m3 units of gas make for very low quantities. Ultimately as long as the site spawn rate stays the way it is it will be very hard for serious producers to produce in quantity to bring prices down. C5-C6 mag sites drop a ridiculous amount of malfunctioning and intact relics (we got 40 assorted relics from 2 sites the other day). The radars in these classes also drop an obscene amount of datacores and decryptors, and every talocan BS I've run into in them has had 3 hull sections, wrecked/malf/and intact. Get gas harvesting V (rank 1 skill, it's a no brainer) and with 5 T2 harvies you can suck gas 175% better then with 4 t1, pulling in about 1k an hour of even the 10m3 stuff. Sounds like you guys need to move up and out of the crappy class 3 junk sites.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.04.08 11:41:00 - [22] Originally by: jujub33 with 5 T2 harvies you can suck gas 175% better then with 4 t1, pulling in about 1k an hour of even the 10m3 stuff. Sounds like you guys need to move up and out of the crappy class 3 junk sites. Guess what, I calculated with tech2 harvis and it's still 24 hours gas mining for all the gas thats needed for one cruiser. For the C540 gas price I was wrong, yeah. I was under the wrong asumption that it is much rarer than C320 as we found twice the same gas site that had 500x C540 and 6000x C320. And obviously that was in a class 5 system...
Some Advisor	Posted - 2009.04.09 22:56:00 - [23] Get BC or Orca or whatever else gives bonus. i have a cycle time of 30.59sec for t2 harvy goes somewhat quick with 2 Guys on the same Gas
Tesal	Posted - 2009.04.10 01:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Xessej I'm in a dedicated wormhole exploitation corp. All we do is get raw materials for t3 production. Class 3 radar and magnetometric sites drop a fair amount of ancient relics and datacores, decryptors, RAM's but but when you take into account it takes a gang of 3 to 5 to safely complete the site the rewards presently don't greatly exceed L4 missioning and this is in psuedo nullsec where risk is higher so reward is expected to be better. Ladars are the real hard part. There just aren't that many and the stuff takes forever to mine. 10m3 units of gas make for very low quantities. Ultimately as long as the site spawn rate stays the way it is it will be very hard for serious producers to produce in quantity to bring prices down. As things stand right now, running a combat fleet in a WH is extremely complicated, just dividing up the loot and disposing of it in exchange for isk takes almost as much time for the gang leader as running the sites.
Tvaishk Suzuki Long Night Industries	Posted - 2009.04.10 08:45:00 - [25] While I admit I'm not really I'm not really an authority on t3 production I decided to run the numbers the other day. What I worked out is that atm buying bpc's off contracts and all materials off the market (jita prices) You can make a while ship right here and now for a little over 2 bil (you have to spend 6 bil though to make all 3 your bpc will let you to make best use of the bpc's you bought.) Just thought I'd throw this out there. --- Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor Appliance Man
Kabeil Blackdawn The Shadow Order New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.10 19:13:00 - [26] Edited by: Kabeil Blackdawn on 10/04/2009 19:13:47 Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Guess what, I calculated with tech2 harvis and it's still 24 hours gas mining for all the gas thats needed for one cruiser. I'm wondering how you got 24h 5 t2 gas harvester 5* 20m3/40sec = 150 m3/min = 9000m3/h Volume of gas to harvest 1m3/gas(1000 C50 + 500 C60 + 400 C70) = 1900 m3 4m3/gas(300 C28 + 400 C72 + 400 C84) = 4400 m3 10m3/gas*(800 C32 + 700 C320 + 300 C540) = 18000 m3 total volume to mine = 30300 m3 minimum time needed T = 24300 m3 /9000m3/h = 2,7 h
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2009.04.11 00:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Sicardae Bad'ia But, is it just me, or do they always seem to deliver a 3 run bpc, so the wrecked hull section/rev.engineering job cost / 3 = hull bpc cost That ignores the failure rate of Reverse-engineering attempts. With Wrecked Hull Sections the success rate is 1 in 3 or worse.
Lance Thor	Posted - 2009.04.11 03:48:00 - [28] Edited by: Lance Thor on 11/04/2009 03:49:05 As much time and effort goes into making these tech III cruisers it just doesn't seem practical to me to spend around 1 bil for a cruiser. I usually only fly cruisers and BCs and I was very excited to hear about the new tech III cruisers, but to spend that much ISK is just a bit on the ridiculous side IMO. Now I know that tech III stuff was just released and maybe production in WH space will become more...productive once more industrialists move in, or CCP does some tweaking to make it more economically sound for production in the tech III industry. Ether way, only time will tell. I just hope in the future to see tech III cruisers roaming the skies.
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.04.11 11:44:00 - [29] Edited by: Brixer on 11/04/2009 11:47:05 A lot of the cost comes from the lack of supply of C320/C540. Which isn't hard to understand as you have to take out 2 Sleepless Keepers + 2 frigs to get to the gas. I calculated, with yesterday Jita prices, you would make 640m/hr harvesting with 5T2 harvesters if you got a bonus link running. So, it's not that noone find the gas, or cant mine it. It's getting past those Keepers that is the problem. Getting 3-4 hi-skilled mates together in Bs, go X# of jumps through 0.0 to get to the WH, then kill 2 stupid rats, return X# of jumps, refit to mining gear, X# jumps.. Enter WH, just find find some stupid HAC gang pwning everyone even close to the gas-cloud.. The Jita tale is clear, C320 is too hard to get to, even with crazy ISK/hr if* you get any of it with you home. Reducing the size of the gas might help somewhat, as you can ninja in, harvest, and GTFO before Sleepers spawn, but that's risky business too. Just look at the C32 gas. It's also 10m3, but available in some C3 systems, got cruiser sized spawns and got a reasonable price. The ladder on getting the different gas seems to be easy-easy-easy-easy-easy-WTFBBQ, going from C60->C320

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.