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Suggestions on how to improve my CNR fit

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Jukhta Mein Thunderbolts	Posted - 2009.04.09 12:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Jukhta Mein on 09/04/2009 12:16:01 Edited by: Jukhta Mein on 09/04/2009 12:15:34 For level 4s. [Raven Navy Issue, CNR Missions] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Co-Processor II X-Large Shield Booster II Mission-specific Hardener II Mission-specific HardenerII Mission-specific Hardener II Mission-specific Hardener II Shield Boost Amplifier I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Yes the co-processor is there because I don't have the CPU to fit them all. With the processor I am running on 986.5/990 CPU. This setup deals 462 DPS without drones has a defence efficiency of 126/699 (are these numbers good?) Basically I would like to improve the rate I can do missions. Note that I don't have rigs fitted yet so I'm open to those suggestions for rigs too. 3x CCC don't really improve things by much according to EFT. Also note that I don't have the budget for too expensive faction modules. The rats I get are mostly Angels and Serpentis.
Giannamichaels	Posted - 2009.04.09 12:22:00 - [2] i cant really see the need for the damage control, cruise im not keen i like torps, you should have 3 rigs fitted
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2009.04.09 12:32:00 - [3] Too much tank... Reducing the number of hardeners will reduce the CPU cost significantly, though perhaps not by enough to free up your Co-Processor slot. Replacing your T2 BCUs with Navy will also make a big difference. The Drone Link Aug is perhaps extraneous in most situations (your drones chewing up frigates in orbits of less than 20km while you work on the BS and BCs at range). Downgrading the DCU to an Internal Forcefield (or replacing it with something more useful) saves just a little more... I'm not keen on the single Navy Cruise Launcher personally - another T2 would be my preference (or a full rack of Navy, though that attracts gankers like flies). A target painter would allow you to engage Cruisers and Destroyers more efficiently with primary damage, or a sensor booster would allow you to make use of more of the Raven's missile range. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Grissem Griss Co	Posted - 2009.04.09 12:44:00 - [4] My old fitting used to work quite nicely: Lows: Dark Blood PDU Damage Control II 3 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Controls Mids: X Large Shield Booster II 4 x Rat Specific Hardeners Shield Boost Amplifier II Highs: 7 x Cruise Missile Launcher II's with Faction cruise missiles (Caldari Navy) Empty High slot Rigs: 3 x CCC rigs More than enough to deal with missions. Over time I found out that this setup minus a launcher but plus two Artillery cannons is more than enough to deal with all level 4's with a normal raven. So I gave up using my CNR. The benefit of which is even less attention from gankers as they won't go after a normal raven with a couple of low end faction mods. Hope this helps. --------------- ROA Till I die......or they find someone better
NoNah	Posted - 2009.04.09 12:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Jacob Holland Too much tank... Reducing the number of hardeners will reduce the CPU cost significantly, though perhaps not by enough to free up your Co-Processor slot. Replacing your T2 BCUs with Navy will also make a big difference. The Drone Link Aug is perhaps extraneous in most situations (your drones chewing up frigates in orbits of less than 20km while you work on the BS and BCs at range). Downgrading the DCU to an Internal Forcefield (or replacing it with something more useful) saves just a little more... I'm not keen on the single Navy Cruise Launcher personally - another T2 would be my preference (or a full rack of Navy, though that attracts gankers like flies). A target painter would allow you to engage Cruisers and Destroyers more efficiently with primary damage, or a sensor booster would allow you to make use of more of the Raven's missile range. I more or less agree with this, however... Cutting down the Shield booster from T2 to best named or low faction(Domination up to Caldari Navy) will ease up 50 CPU on it's own. CN BCU's will give you another 50 once you replace the co-cpu with one. Drop the drone link augmentor for a tractor beam for another 30. Fit flare rigs, it ups your general damage, it's basically a target painter with nill cycles. Mixing launchers means you can't group them, if you can't group them you lose dps. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 699536
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.04.09 14:18:00 - [6] Two Small Pithi SBs instead of the XL/SBA. Two PDS II's instead of DC and Co-Pro, as you'll high tail it outta there as soon as your shields drop, (which may only happen with AE bonus room or EA5, if at all). This also solves any cap problem with the XL SB. Three Warhead Rigor Catalyst rigs to enable your missiles to focus damage on cruisers and BC's. Combine that with Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision skills and cruisers are like shooting ducks in a shooting gallery. That Drone Link Augmentor takes 50 CPU, not really needed. You only need light drones for the frigs anyway. Best to keep them under 40km, as you'll have to recall them often as aggro switches with each group of hostiles. There are CNR threads that vouch to the efficacy of the two small SB setup, it has certainly worked for me, as I can concentrate on gank to be a big assist to my tank.
Pantload The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2009.04.09 15:50:00 - [7] Mind you I have practically maxed skills for my CNR guy ( which helps ) but here's the fitting I run with GREAT success: Highs: 7x Cruise Launcher II ( load with CN ammo for cruisers or the occasional frig. load with furies for BC/BS ) 1x whatever ( tractor, NOS? ) Mids: 2x Pithii B-type small shield booster 3x CN hardener 1x PWNAGE ( paint practically all targets ) Lows: 4x CN Ballistic control 1x Signal Amplifier II ( bonuses targetting range, locking time, and +2 targets ) Rigs: 2x Rigor Catalyst II 1x Flare Catalyst I ( some will argue to use all Rigors. I wrote a spreadsheet from current missile damage. With a painter, the above combo of rigs gives highest effective dmg vs smaller/faster targets ) Drones: 5x medium ( mission-specific ) 5x lights ( mission-specific ) Implants: 5% cruise dmg, rof, explo rad, explo velocity, flight speed This is a HIGH dps cruise setup ( about 820 dps from missiles alone ). Tank is a little thin but I've literally NEVER had a problem running L4s. I do however always skip Enemies Abound and I skip the bonus room of Angel Extra. Hope this helps. Cheers, PL
Arfvedson	Posted - 2009.04.09 16:40:00 - [8] Edited by: Arfvedson on 09/04/2009 16:46:00 Well, you really dont need the boost amp for 1. With the missile nerfs, you will be tanking alot longer than you had to before, so the extra tank is a non issue tbh. 3BCU's are standard on any raven. The 4th give's you ~1.7% more damage, so its a waste. DCU II is also pretty standard, but not really necessary. I use it. PDU II would be fantastic for that other slot. It's what 99% of us use. For the mids, you want 2 Invuln II's, EM II, Thermal II. Thats a nice omni tank that you need for alot of missions. XL booster II Heavy Cap Booster II (800's) 7xCruise Launcher II (Faction are nice, but T2 ammo is better and is CHEAPER) Fit whatever in the utility slot. It's a pretty tight fit, but will run all LVL 4's with ease. For rigs, the only rigs that go in a PVE raven tbh are CCC's. You can get away with others, but tbh, it's not going to make enough diff to a mission runner by comparison and the cap really helps. This is the most common CNR setup there is tbh, give it a shot. Edit: I should also put in a few little nips about perma boost. It's really a great option. Take out the heavy cap booster and put a faction boost amp, and replace the xp booster 2 with a Large one. Replace the dcu II and PDU 2 with the cap module of your choice. And the L Pith Booster if you can afford it is only like 20-30 less boost than the XL for under half the energy cost of the XL and makes for a rediculous perma boost.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.09 16:48:00 - [9] Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 09/04/2009 16:50:48 Originally by: Grissem Lows: Dark Blood PDU Damage Control II 3 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Controls Mids: X Large Shield Booster II 4 x Rat Specific Hardeners Shield Boost Amplifier II Highs: 7 x Cruise Missile Launcher II's with Faction cruise missiles (Caldari Navy) Empty High slot Rigs: 3 x CCC rigs this is good. you can find other pdu's to do the job but i think i threw a faction one on there myself i've also run with 3x bcu and 2x pdu , it works lose a hardener and replace it w/ a targetpainter and your talking business. edit: you dont need that 4th hardener and tp will really improve your killing speed. if you just fit 3 hards specific to your mission your fine. i've even ran w/ 2x invuls and an AB for missions that require me to cover a lot of ground, but your talking faction stuff (gist booster, ss/domi ab) to make it fit and hold up tank-wise go with the ccc rigs, yeah it doesn't do much for damage but you will want that cap to run your booster (i have a drone range mod in my last high, what the hell right? but i might have enough faction to give me the cpu you might not have.)
Saraphos	Posted - 2009.04.09 18:28:00 - [10] [Raven Navy Issue, Gur Missions] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II PWNAGE Painter Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Tractor Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Vespa II x5 Here is what I use, pretty standard, I swap out the XL Booster/Amplifier/1 Launcher for a gist large boost/af/salvager if its an easy mission or I have a lot of ground to cover
Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.04.09 22:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Arfvedson 3BCU's are standard on any raven. The 4th give's you ~1.7% more damage, so its a waste. I don't think this is right... I believe the stacking penalty for the fourth bonus is 28% total effectiveness. So for example, a fourth CN BCS would be... 10.5% ROF -> 2.94% ROF 12.5% Damage -> 3.5% Damage That's an effective DPS bonus in the neighborhood of 6-7%. Anecdotally, when I was fighting that jerk at the end of Vengeance this is what allowed me to break his tank. (yeah my skills are still middling). I was honestly surprised at the increase in output I got from that fourth BCS. Against tanking targets remember that whatever % DPS bonus you get is actually far greater in terms of killing speed as you outstrip their ability to heal.
Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.04.09 22:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Pantload Mind you I have practically maxed skills for my CNR guy ( which helps ) but here's the fitting I run with GREAT success Fantastic. This is exactly the kind of build I've been trying to find recently. I'm trying to build a Raven with a lot of gank. I don't want to AFK L4's, I want to decimate them. I was about to buy my first CNR (WOOT) with 3xCCC but I may go for missile rigs instead and see how it works out. My build has been slowly approaching something close to yours. Here it is, if you feel like commenting: Raven (soon to be CNR...) High 6x CN Cruise 1x Tractor 1x Salvager (I'll miss this on my CNR...) Mid 1x CN XL Boost 1x SBA I ...(though I'm thinking I'll price out replacing the Boost+Amp with the Pithii smalls) 3x Mission hardener II 1x PWNAGE (replacing a hardener with this is one of the best decisions I've made for this ship) Low 3x CN BCS 2x PDS II (Strongly considering fourth BCS) Rigs 3x CCC (Strongly considering missile rigs, especially if I go for the Pithii boosters) Drones 5x medium, 5x light Implants +1%/+3% cruise bonuses, upgrading as I can afford
EinaruS Euphoria Released Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.04.10 03:54:00 - [13] drop down to c5-l shield rigs instead of ccc. upgrade bcu's to navy when you can upgrade launchers to navy when you can. ditch the boost amp I and get a cap recharger or upgrade to navy. get rid of that co-proc any way you can, put a crc/pdu/bcu instead i'd worry about skills first though i don't do missions but i have and i haven't come across anything that threatens the raven if you do things correctly. That said what Time is the enemy in these missions take so my normal approach is to increase damage, decrease time spent per mission. to that end i like having two characters doing missions, if that's not your thing that's fine. having seperate fits for missions isn't a bad idea either, for missions you need to kill a lot of battleships, switching to torps CAN be a good idea. If you have access to multiple agents at one location, picking and choosing missions is a very good idea. you can refuse a mission ever some x amount of hours and many of the high loyalty point missions can be done incredibly fast nearly regardless of your ship. also.. you might know this but since you posted like this i'd like to mention that serpentis and angels aren't exactly scared of EM missiles if you catch my drift. the EFT numbers are not reliable, this is something most people neglect. guns in particular may have a max dps assuming every single one hits with varying levels of success. now missiles do damage based on the size, mass, velocity and direction of the ship. 462dps is horrible compared to a nightmare or paladin with dps of up to a thousand. - A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk
Jukhta Mein Thunderbolts	Posted - 2009.04.10 06:09:00 - [14] Are the Pithi small boosters really that great?
Chalrynn	Posted - 2009.04.10 09:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Jukhta Mein Are the Pithi small boosters really that great? They're very cheap compared to medium/large/XL boosters of the same meta level. They're also very forgiving on capacitor usage. Most of the time a single cap mod is enough to pretty much perma run them (if its needed at all).
Ryuzaki Lawliet Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.10 11:47:00 - [16] [Raven Navy Issue, DG L SB] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 HAven't done Enemies Abound 5/5 yet, but this hasn't failed me yet. Though Cap lasts for 5.5 minutes, but I end up buffer tanking and using the booster to get back to near full shields. I get 525 dps out of this as well. And the DG SB is about 40 mil. Originally by: Vabjekf Once you have 12 decillion skill points you can equip smaller ships in your slots and shoot rifters at people
Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.04.10 18:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Jukhta Mein Are the Pithi small boosters really that great? I did the math on this yesterday to see why people use them. Compared to a XL Boost+SBA, 2x Pithi B-Type Smalls give you about half the tanking power in exchange for double the cap efficiency. You can't beat an XL for short-duration high-power tanking, but in the majority of other cases if you just switch on the Pithi's earlier they will give you far more tank per cap. This means you can afford missile rigs (if you have the CPU). I'm currently running an XLB and 3xCCC rigs but I'm planning on moving away from this as soon as I can afford it given these numbers.
Jukhta Mein Thunderbolts	Posted - 2009.04.10 19:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Aidan Drake Originally by: Jukhta Mein Are the Pithi small boosters really that great? I did the math on this yesterday to see why people use them. Compared to a XL Boost+SBA, 2x Pithi B-Type Smalls give you about half the tanking power in exchange for double the cap efficiency. You can't beat an XL for short-duration high-power tanking, but in the majority of other cases if you just switch on the Pithi's earlier they will give you far more tank per cap. This means you can afford missile rigs (if you have the CPU). I'm currently running an XLB and 3xCCC rigs but I'm planning on moving away from this as soon as I can afford it given these numbers. But can we really use two pithi Bs which only give half the tanking power of a XL booster + SBA? Aren't there a significant number of missions where the DPS exceeds that of the two pithi Bs?
Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.04.10 19:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Jukhta Mein But can we really use two pithi Bs which only give half the tanking power of a XL booster + SBA? Aren't there a significant number of missions where the DPS exceeds that of the two pithi Bs? Only for a short period. I know I've been in missions where my XL wasn't quite keeping up, but I also waited until around 40% to start boosting since I usually pulse it. Because the Pithi B's are so much more efficient you could start them a lot earlier. (I'm theorycrafting a bit since I have only used an XL). Incoming DPS is usually reduced rapidly as you kill things, especially BC and BS. Since upgrading to a CNR yesterday, I ran a few missions and really only had to pulse my booster a handful of times. The extra buffer makes a huge difference. So the 2xPithi's may be far more realistic for a CNR with its larger buffer than for a Raven.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.04.10 19:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Aidan Drake Originally by: Jukhta Mein But can we really use two pithi Bs which only give half the tanking power of a XL booster + SBA? Aren't there a significant number of missions where the DPS exceeds that of the two pithi Bs? Only for a short period. I know I've been in missions where my XL wasn't quite keeping up, but I also waited until around 40% to start boosting since I usually pulse it. Because the Pithi B's are so much more efficient you could start them a lot earlier. (I'm theorycrafting a bit since I have only used an XL). Incoming DPS is usually reduced rapidly as you kill things, especially BC and BS. Since upgrading to a CNR yesterday, I ran a few missions and really only had to pulse my booster a handful of times. The extra buffer makes a huge difference. So the 2xPithi's may be far more realistic for a CNR with its larger buffer than for a Raven. Start pulsing the XL as soon as your shield has fallen by more than 1 cycle worth; your cap will regen a lot faster than your shield, so let the capacitor take the strain.
Aidan Drake	Posted - 2009.04.10 19:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Start pulsing the XL as soon as your shield has fallen by more than 1 cycle worth; your cap will regen a lot faster than your shield, so let the capacitor take the strain. Hmmm. I've been trying to keep my shield at peak regen to get as much passive benefit as possible. Usually this works out fine. But in situations where DPS is actually high enough to matter this may be the better approach. I'll have to give it a try.
Zackaryel Caldari Echolalia. Shangri-La.	Posted - 2009.04.10 20:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Jukhta Mein Stuff Ring Xzibit and ask him to "pimp your ride" ---------- http://www.youtube.com/user/Zackaryel
Jukhta Mein Thunderbolts	Posted - 2009.04.11 05:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Zackaryel Originally by: Jukhta Mein Stuff Ring Xzibit and ask him to "pimp your ride" Huh.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2009.04.11 10:38:00 - [24] Originally by: NoNah I more or less agree with this, however... Cutting down the Shield booster from T2 to best named or low faction(Domination up to Caldari Navy) Cutting down to CN?
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.04.11 12:08:00 - [25] Drop a hardener and the damage control. Add a painter, 1 CCC and 2 rigors get some more cap from that low spot. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.04.11 14:33:00 - [26] [Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.11 16:24:00 - [27] 4 bcus is deffinatly not a waste on a mission ship. Anyone who thiks that don't really know what they are doing :P.

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