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Eta Pawtel
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:53:00 -
[1]
Hi,
With the recent changes to nanofitting and the soon-to-be-in-effect ECM range reduction, I think it's time to discuss the Ishtar. As a gallente pilot myself, I know that gallente fleet isn't in the best shape atm comparing to what it used to be once, and this should be looked into, but in the current situation the ishtar doesn't seem quite balanced compared to both its HAS counterparts, it's tech 1 alter ego the vexor and the gallente tiers 2 BC.
Actually, it's quite easy for the other races to come close to has effectiveness in terms of dps with their BCs, sacrifying agility, speed and/or range most of the time. Not discussing weither or not this is right, it should be the same with the Ishtar.
As it stands, the Ishtar is the only HAS that benefits of a BS level damage through heavy drones and sentries, which could have gone unnoticed while nanoships were going 6km/s perma mwd-ing or falcons were jamming from an out of reach distance (and even then, nanoishtars were a plague) but in the current (or the soon to be) situation makes them overpowered and clearly *the* FoTM candidate to come.
To fix this and make the transition from vexor/myrmidon to ishtar more in line with other races HAS, I propose a few simple changes:
- Reduce the drone bandwidth to 50. In no situation a HAS should have more weapon volume than a BC, let alone a command ship (see the Eos nerf when the bandwith was introduced, still wondering why the ishtar kept its bandwidth at that time). This could be verified by all the tiers 2 BCs having more guns/drones than their race's has.
- Change the dronebay bonus to a 5-to-7.5% bonus to drone damage. 10% would be too much, effectively bringing med drones dmg to heavy level while keeping all the advantages of the med size in terms of tracking, etc...
- Tweak the cpu/pg values so that people can effectively fit med hybrid guns on it and use the damned hybrid bonus of the gallente cruiser skill if they want to.
Discuss.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:36:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 09/04/2009 17:41:37
No, you're trying to nerf my Ishtar!
1) Drone Bandwidth - It's a drone boat.
2) Drone Damage - It's a drone boat.
3) Hybrid Guns - It's a drone boat.
I hope this clears things up a bit. 
EDIT: Extra CPU/PG would be kinda nice... then I could fit a better tank and more salvager/tractors while I let MY DRONES kill everything.
Vexor is a drone boat. Myrm is a drone boat. Gallente are drone pilots.
The balancing factor IS how little the ship can do besides float, live, and deploy drones.
Also... Gallente ships in general are meant to have higher bandwidth.
Gallente deploy fewer larger drones.
Amarr have higher capacity, so they can deploy several wings of smaller drones.
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Players aren't interested in Variety, they only want THE BEST. |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:41:00 -
[3]
yes, falcon is an ECM boat and gets a nerf too because it can jam.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:49:00 -
[4]
Edited by: el caido on 09/04/2009 17:51:00
As a devout Ishtar pilot for almost two years now, I thoroughly despise the inevitable nerf that will eventually come upon this ship. That said, I accept it because the Ishtar truly is a class of its own (especially for PVE). I think a reduction to 75 bandwidth is probably the most logical action, but time will tell ...
OP: Your suggestions go too far. And just ignore the current med hybrid bonus - it is, afterall, the "best" HAC while only having three bonuses. 
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Tryptic Photon
Gallente
Mad Bombers
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:56:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tryptic Photon on 09/04/2009 17:56:51
 Originally by: Eta Pawtel
- Reduce the drone bandwidth to 50. In no situation a HAS should have more weapon volume than a BC
It's trivial to fit a Hurricane with substantially more dps than an Ishtar. A well-fitted Vagabond easily meets or exceeds an Ishtar. A Myrmidon can be fit with a full rack of blasters along with 3 ogre II's. Your observations are quite simply incorrect.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.09 18:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 09/04/2009 18:13:04
Call me silly... what for reading the items and all.
But when it says "CreoDron kept trying to make a better ship, but wound up coming back to drone improvements"
That tells me that all the drone boosts are well placed. It can't do much of anything else, but it can fly the $hit outta some drones! |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/04/2009 20:31:31
Allow me this stupid question:
When you want less drone bandwidth and more weapons on the Ishtar, should you not rather be flying a Deimos?
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If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.04.10 01:16:00 -
[8]
The ship description says it's the best drone carrier available....why the hell should it have only 50m3 of bandwidth? It's a bloody drone boat, not a gunship. Fly a deimos.
Also, vexor has 75Mbit of bandwidth, care to suggest why the T2 version should have less? Same with the damage bonus?  You compare them to BC's, yet the only drone carrier BC is the myrmidon, and it is half/half, using guns as well as drones (and you'll find people saying that its bandwidth should be increased to the 125 it used to have)
Ishtar dps isn't that much, it's also pretty much capped as you can't tweak it easily past 5 heavy drones with max skills. It's main dps can also be easily neutralised by killing the drones, something you can't do to most other ships.
You want a gunboat, buy a deimos. Leave the ishtar alone
All in all, terrible idea
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Letifer Deus
181st Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.10 02:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 10/04/2009 02:42:25
You are either a troll, clueless, or both. either way people should stop humoring you.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Eta Pawtel
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Posted - 2009.04.10 03:50:00 -
[10]
I beg to differ guys:
- As said, falcon is an ecm boat (and a clear, dedicated one as it stands), yet is getting a dronebay and a weapon bonus. So the fact that the Ishtar is "a dedicated droneboat" atm isn't disqualifying it for, well, some surprising changes, some might say.
- 75 bandwidth would be ok, totally agree on that. In fact I'm quite happy seeing all you calm and wise people rejecting the gun point, this was just to ease the drones nerfing part (while being quite realistic from a CCP point of view on nerfing, I still think).
The point is: you know the Ishtar is next in line for the nerf, just trying to get you used to the idea.
And train your gun skills, you can never be too careful.
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mystiq pwnzorg
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Posted - 2009.04.10 04:06:00 -
[11]
I totaly disagree with what you said.
Gallente HACs are behind other race HAC.
let's take a look at ishtar...
1. very, very huge problem with cpu- 285. it's the lowest value between all HACs where it shouldn't be. next in line would be deimos with 350.
2. drones aren't that good in pvp, since they can be easly killed. also, in order to reach something you have to decrease ur dmg. i mean... you can't use heavy drones on a frig class ship, where you can use medium sized guns on them without need to decrease ur dmg.
also... only drone dmg rigs avaible works only for sentrys.
3. speednerf was worstest thing that everyhappend to ishtars. i can barely find use for it, since it's very hard to fit one, it have very small tank/buffer, so it cannot tank properly.
4. this ship has no use for lowesec, where his drones will get killed by sentrys.
you play 6month and have no pvp experiance (according to battleclinic)... do you really have knowledge to tell what should be nerfed and what shouldn't?
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