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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 09/04/2009 21:08:19
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 09/04/2009 21:07:51
I can currently fly all the t1 caldari and minmatari ships. And no I'm not just talking about the spaceship command skills being at 4, I know just having that skill does not mean you can fly the ship.
So my next goal is to train some gallente skills because I would like to try out cruisers from each race. Having flown minmatari for a bit now I have upped my drone skills a bit and from flying caldari I can use t2 small and t2 medium hybrid turrets already.
So all I really need to start flying some gallente ships is about 48 hours to get frigats up to 4 and cruisers up to 3.
The only skills I will really be missing for gallente would be armor related skills. I have dumped a large percentage of my points into shield skills but next to nothing into armor.
Are there any gallente ships that can shield tank, the myrmodin looks to be capable, are there any others below battleships?
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 09/04/2009 21:25:21
One more thing. I've been looking at the Thorax to fly. I know it's not a shield tanker because it only has 3 mid slots, but a stabber has only 3 mid slots and is touted as a shield tanker all the time. So the way I see it I'm getting a stabber that's a little slower but gets 2 extra low slots, an extra turret, and does almost 40% more damage with my skills.
what do you think?
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Spectre3353
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:36:00 -
[3]
Well really you can just take a look at what ships have a lot of mids and answer your own question :)
In general Gallente ships do lend themselves to armor tanking due to armor tanking bonuses and a lot of lows and not too many mids (although not to quite as much of an extreme as Amarr). The only Gallente ship I have ever bothered to shield tank is the Lachesis which works pretty well if you ignore the damp bonus and just fly the ship as an expensive cruiser with a nice bonus to scrambler/disruptor range. The Myrm is a fairly popular one to shield tank although you are wasting the armor repairer bonus by doing so. Since it does not have any weapon bonuses, you can also put anything you want on it and not feel bad about it (projectile guns are a popular way to go).
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The Python Cartel Is Recruiting! - My Pirate Blog |
MidnightMartyr
Gallente
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:40:00 -
[4]
The only ships that really shield tank well on the gallente side are the drone boats and the odd ship that has spare mid slots. On most gallente ships armor is a far better choice.
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Visceroth
Minmatar
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:45:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Rogue Lilly
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 09/04/2009 21:25:21
One more thing. I've been looking at the Thorax to fly. I know it's not a shield tanker because it only has 3 mid slots, but a stabber has only 3 mid slots and is touted as a shield tanker all the time. So the way I see it I'm getting a stabber that's a little slower but gets 2 extra low slots, an extra turret, and does almost 40% more damage with my skills.
what do you think?
The reason that you shield tank a Stabber is because of the speed bonus. Because of this, it doesn't make sense to put an armor buffer on the ship and negate the bonus it gets. The thorax does not shield tank well because it has a lot of low slots. a Plate + 3 mag stabs + a DCU II makes the thorax a beast.
The thorax gets a MWD bonus and therefore is still able to get in range even with a plate.
Shield tanking Gallente isn't all that well. Too few mid slots and a lot of Low slots means it will armor tank most of the time.
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 22:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 09/04/2009 22:25:38
Originally by: Spectre3353
Well really you can just take a look at what ships have a lot of mids and answer your own question :)
In general Gallente ships do lend themselves to armor tanking due to armor tanking bonuses and a lot of lows and not too many mids (although not to quite as much of an extreme as Amarr). The only Gallente ship I have ever bothered to shield tank is the Lachesis which works pretty well if you ignore the damp bonus and just fly the ship as an expensive cruiser with a nice bonus to scrambler/disruptor range. The Myrm is a fairly popular one to shield tank although you are wasting the armor repairer bonus by doing so. Since it does not have any weapon bonuses, you can also put anything you want on it and not feel bad about it (projectile guns are a popular way to go).
I was thinking about going the route of myrmadin with projectiles. But when I throw the fit in eft I get about 92 more dps from blasters than ACs and my skills are the at the exact same level for each.
I have been trying out all the races ships just to get a feel for what I want to dive all the way into and getting the unspecific support skills up along the way. I like minmatari except that it feels like every last thing they have is inferior in every way to all three of the other races.......except they go a little faster. Which seemed to be a benefit before QR but really doesn't make up enough for the general detriments in all other departments.
I guess it's the split layouts, my damage mods currently only effect about 60% of my weapons, my tank is supposedly a hybrid tank of either shield/speed or armor/speed to account for having less slots for a tank than any other race, except for they took the speed out so now its shield/ or armor/
I'm just unsatisfied with the extend of speed advantage. I wanted to play a fast race but the last couple of pvp fights I've been in the very minor amount of speed I had over my opponent wasn't enough to make any appreciable difference, especially when they just had to burst a MWD to get in range, then me burst my MWD to get back out to my range. So really the only advantage I've found to the speed is that I usually have the option to retreat and they don't, which i guess is a good advantage when I'll usually have less tank and less dps than an equally skilled piolot in a different races ship. But I'd like to fly something that doesn't have the one upside of being able to run away better.
I really wanted to work with minmatari because their ships are great looking (yeah I'm shallow like that) but I honestly can find no actual advantage that they have unlike the other three races. We can fight in falloff, meaning we can choose to do a lot less damage than our already lowest damage, we can run away at a slightly higher speed, and we can use weapons that we can in no way conceivably fit a weapon upgrade for.
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StraightEdge Phoenix
Gallente
Flight of One
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Posted - 2009.04.09 22:27:00 -
[7]
With regards to the projectile turrets instead of hybrids, it's to lessen the amount of cap being consumed so that the shields can be used more effectively. Not really a decision based on damage dealing, but rather on increasing the tank. |
Spectre3353
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.09 22:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: StraightEdge Phoenix
With regards to the projectile turrets instead of hybrids, it's to lessen the amount of cap being consumed so that the shields can be used more effectively. Not really a decision based on damage dealing, but rather on increasing the tank.
Not to mention the fact that autocannons will still be able to hit and do damage due to the longer falloff and the fact that you can choose your damage types to a further extent with projectile ammo then you can with hybrid ammo. Eve's ship/module effectiveness has a lot more you need to consider than a one-dimensional DPS number you get out of EFT :)
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The Python Cartel Is Recruiting! - My Pirate Blog |
Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 22:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Spectre3353
Originally by: StraightEdge Phoenix
With regards to the projectile turrets instead of hybrids, it's to lessen the amount of cap being consumed so that the shields can be used more effectively. Not really a decision based on damage dealing, but rather on increasing the tank.
Not to mention the fact that autocannons will still be able to hit and do damage due to the longer falloff and the fact that you can choose your damage types to a further extent with projectile ammo then you can with hybrid ammo. Eve's ship/module effectiveness has a lot more you need to consider than a one-dimensional DPS number you get out of EFT :)
I agree that eft is very misleading, but in reality the choosing your damage type only applies to t1 ammo, and even then using anything but emp gimps your already low damage. And the longer falloff thing really boggles my mind. I have never found an advantage to being "most effective" in a range that does horrible damage. Projectiles are supposed to be the mid ranged of the three turret types, but their mid range is horribly inacurate and low damage.
I'm sorry, I know, either do it or don't, but either way stfu....but I needed to vent on this because it's so frustrating.
I didn't believe the eft numbers, and now I fly minmatari ships that are just as bad as eft said they would be. and my one and only advantage is that at mid range I can occasionally hit for minor damage for about the 3 seconds it takes for a hybrid ship to close the distance and scram me.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.04.09 23:03:00 -
[10]
I like the Kronos and Hyper as shield tanks and of course the Domi work well. The T3 cruisers make surprising good passive shield tanks.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:11:00 -
[11]
I shield tank my Myrmidon and my blaster Arazu.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:16:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 10/04/2009 09:16:45
Shield-buffered Gankbrutix isnt that bad, especially since blasterboats need to get in range somehow.
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Linsyn
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Posted - 2009.04.10 13:51:00 -
[13]
Myrmidon shield tanked like a drake, ishtar too make real good pve ships, as above was said the Domi is good too
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Bromine Mercury
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.04.10 15:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pottsey
I like the Kronos and Hyper as shield tanks and of course the Domi work well. The T3 cruisers make surprising good passive shield tanks.
Yeah, Kronos is a great shield tanker with 4 mids and 7 lows and 7.5% bonus to armor rep amount per marauder level.
I knew you were an idiot after reading your position on learning skills, but this is the icing on the cake.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.04.10 15:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Pottsey on 10/04/2009 15:34:00
Bromine Mercury said "4 mids and 7 lows"
Passive shield tanks get a lot of benefit from low slots and only need 1 or 2 mids slots for resistance. Ships with lots of low slots tend to make good passive shield tanks.
Bromine Mercury said "I knew you were an idiot after reading your position on learning skills, but this is the icing on the cake."
The only idiots are the ones who think it does not make a good passive shield tank. I never said it was better than an amour tank setup. I said it works fine and works well which it does. You have to be stupid to think it does not make a good shield tank. I have been flying though missions with it for a long time now as a shield tank with a high damage output and no tanking problems. The Kronos with a armor rep amount bonues is not the only ship with a rep bonues to make a good passive shield tank.
As for the learning skills I turned out to be right. No one managed to prove me wrong as I ended up with month's worth of skills I wouldn't have had with adv4 learning skills. No one managed to post a skill plan with adv4 that didn't end up with months of skills missing I have now due to adv5. The fact was adv5 gave me months of skills I lose if I had adv4.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Malarkie
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Posted - 2009.04.10 18:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 10/04/2009 15:48:00
Bromine Mercury said "4 mids and 7 lows"
Passive shield tanks get a lot of benefit from low slots and only need 1 or 2 mids slots for resistance. Ships with lots of low slots tend to make good passive shield tanks.
Bromine Mercury said "I knew you were an idiot after reading your position on learning skills, but this is the icing on the cake."
The only idiots are the ones who think it does not make a good passive shield tank. I never said it was better than an amour tank setup, both the amour and shield tank on a Kronos are about the same. I said it works fine and works well which it does. You have to be stupid to think it does not make a good shield tank. I have been flying though missions with it for a long time now as a shield tank with a high damage output and no tanking problems. The Kronos with a armor rep amount bonues is not the only ship with a rep bonues to make a good passive shield tank.
As for the learning skills I turned out to be right. Not one person has managed to post a skill plan with adv4 that has all the skills I have now due to adv5. The ones that tried failed. No one managed to prove me wrong about ending up with month's worth of skills I wouldn't have had with adv4 learning skills. The facts are adv5 has gave me months of skills I lose if I had adv4. There was and is no way with adv4 I can end up with the skills I have now. Yet somehow in your eyes that makes me the idiot.
Pottsey: no need to respond to the troll. Those with half a wit knew what you meant.
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