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Why we will never have a stable Mac Client.

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Rellik Sadab	Posted - 2009.04.10 18:42:00 - [1] We will never have a Mac client as stable as a PC version until CCP gives us a totally brand new Intel native client (which will never happen). The PC gaming industry has found the 'miracle' of Cider and we will never again see a true mac version of a game. Yet most of the crashes, errors and glitches I encounter on a hourly basis seem to be not the of CCP but of Cider. Calling a game "Mac compatible" because it has been ported using Cider is like calling a hamburger a steak just because you put A1 Steak Sauce on it. So until the day comes that a large enough percent of the players are running on a mac comes that CCP will actually pay attention to us, we will have to suffer (but I never said in silence or alone) and try to work out our own ways to make the game run as best as possible. I personally get the best experience when I run the premium client in a virtual copy of XP though Parallels or VMWare Fusion.
Xikuan New Furia	Posted - 2009.04.11 23:03:00 - [2] I can understand why you may be upset, but let me point a few things out to you. 1) Just like everyone else, it's your decision to run OS X. If you are stuck with apple hardware then thats still no excuse because Windows now runs happy on it since Apple started to ship with X86 CPU's. 2) CCP are under no obligation to supply a Mac client. To be fair the Mac gaming community is so insignificant in terms of market share they are actually probably losing money by supporting it. If it wasn't for Cider there would be no hope at all for a Mac Client. 3) Your statement about Parallels or VMWare is just plain wrong because last time I checked D3D isn't supported/isn't usable for gaming. (Feel free to correct me, haven't checked them out in a while.) 4) Before you get out a reply stating "I don't wana run Windows, I love my Mac, Steve Jobs is my God..." It's just an OS. Just use whats best for the job. Either use Windows to game on or enjoy the current Mac Client. If you really want to improve the Mac Client rather then coming on to the forums and being "Mac Client suxor make me a new one11!!!!1" submit some decent bug reports and help us all out by trying to improve on what we got. 5) Happy Gaming
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.12 11:55:00 - [3] What are these 'crashes' you are talking about? ^_^
Oxanna Castelanne	Posted - 2009.04.12 15:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Xikuan I can understand why you may be upset, but let me point a few things out to you. 1) Just like everyone else, it's your decision to run OS X. If you are stuck with apple hardware then thats still no excuse because Windows now runs happy on it since Apple started to ship with X86 CPU's. 2) CCP are under no obligation to supply a Mac client. To be fair the Mac gaming community is so insignificant in terms of market share they are actually probably losing money by supporting it. If it wasn't for Cider there would be no hope at all for a Mac Client. 3) Your statement about Parallels or VMWare is just plain wrong because last time I checked D3D isn't supported/isn't usable for gaming. (Feel free to correct me, haven't checked them out in a while.) 4) Before you get out a reply stating "I don't wana run Windows, I love my Mac, Steve Jobs is my God..." It's just an OS. Just use whats best for the job. Either use Windows to game on or enjoy the current Mac Client. If you really want to improve the Mac Client rather then coming on to the forums and being "Mac Client suxor make me a new one11!!!!1" submit some decent bug reports and help us all out by trying to improve on what we got. 5) Happy Gaming LOL I love your answer. It's so ridiculously off topic... Let me explain things in a simple way so even you can understand : 1 - CCP advertised EvE as working under Mac OS. 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS You're talking like the real problem isn't the mac version not working but the mac community complaining about it. LOL I bought the game to PLAY it. I didn't pay a subscription to have the privilege to work for CCP as a tester/debugger for their game. Like other mac users I've never said i wanted to play EvE whatever the cost. Otherwise i wouldn't have waited all those years for a mac version to come out. I've used windows for years, i know what it is : it's not "just an OS" as you say. It's crap, and it's filled with bugs, viruses and flaws. And i'm sorry but i really don't like crap... that's precisely why I switched to Mac and i am now a happy mac user. You see I bought this game because it was sold as working on Mac OS, but it isn't and that is called deceptive advertising. If you can't understand that, if you think windows is a good OS, if nothing makes you more happy than sending bug reports... well that's great ! Good for you ! Go open a new thread to explain how happy you are about all this. But please, keep your pathetic bull**** off serious threads. Thank you.
Lan Staz	Posted - 2009.04.12 19:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS I play the game almost every day under Mac OS, as do a significant number of others. Would you care to clarify the above? aside: I can't believe I'm actually responding to this kind of trolling
Senyru Suru Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.12 19:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne Originally by: Xikuan 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS i run 2 clients simultaneously on my 2-year old imac under OS X - haven't had a problem with it so far. maybe your definition of "unplayable" is different than mine? -- --- one day we're all gonna die, and then we'll see who's laughing!
Xikuan New Furia	Posted - 2009.04.12 22:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne LOL I love your answer. It's so ridiculously off topic... I didn't think my post was off topic at all. Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne Let me explain things in a simple way so even you can understand : 1 - CCP advertised EvE as working under Mac OS. 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS I'm pretty sure Eve is playable on OS X Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne You're talking like the real problem isn't the mac version not working but the mac community complaining about it. LOL I bought the game to PLAY it. I didn't pay a subscription to have the privilege to work for CCP as a tester/debugger for their game. Thats not what I said at all. The "Mac community complaining" is not what I was responding to. I was responding to THIS particular post. All you have to do is look at the stickies in this sub forum to see that the mac community that you are reffering to is actually extremely helpfull and is full of users who pro actively go out to help others. Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne Like other mac users I've never said i wanted to play EvE whatever the cost. Otherwise i wouldn't have waited all those years for a mac version to come out. I've used windows for years, i know what it is : it's not "just an OS" as you say. It's crap, and it's filled with bugs, viruses and flaws. And i'm sorry but i really don't like crap... that's precisely why I switched to Mac and i am now a happy mac user. You see I bought this game because it was sold as working on Mac OS, but it isn't and that is called deceptive advertising. It is just an OS, I have multiple Windows, Mac OS X, GNU/Linux and BSD Machines and they all have bugs and flaws (none of them have viruses). Eve is working on OS X. The "deceptive advertising" you mention doesn't exist. It clearly states what version of OS X and what hardware configurations the Eve Client officially supports. Plus, you did not need to spend ANY money at all. Thats what the 14 Day trial is for. You said you've been waiting years for the mac client? Well if you've been waiting so long why didn't you play with the 14 day trial first to see if the client works correctly on your machine. If it doesn't work and then you still decide to pay a monthly fee for a game you can't play then your pretty much just an idiot who is wasting money.... Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne If you can't understand that, if you think windows is a good OS, if nothing makes you more happy than sending bug reports... well that's great ! Good for you ! Go open a new thread to explain how happy you are about all this. But please, keep your pathetic bull**** off serious threads. Thank you. I understand perfectly. You seem to waive any sort of logic to simply have a big fat moan. Sending bug reports doesn''t make me happy. In fact, I've never sent a bug report in EVER, but I have also never started a thread for the sole purpose of complaining either. Regards. X
Brynden Blackfish	Posted - 2009.04.13 06:30:00 - [8] I have no problems with the Mac client.
Dansel Gallente Creative Cookie Procuring Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.04.13 09:17:00 - [9] I'm a happy mac user, and so far, I don't have any major problems with the client. Yes, It sux sompared to the windows one, but as long as i turn down the GFX settings slightly i dont have any problems. My game has freezed maybe 2 times at the point of writing and i have been playing the game since summer 08. And really, you're to busy staring at the overview most of the time to notice the pretty textures. ----------------- Yay!!
Sconic	Posted - 2009.04.13 14:57:00 - [10] People seem to think it is the macs with certain Nvidia cards/drivers are the victims of this bug. Cider + Nvidia card + Eve apparently = an unplayable game for those with this setup. I have the same issue of increasingly unstable play eventually resulting in a crash.
Dansel Gallente Creative Cookie Procuring Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.04.13 15:16:00 - [11] On my fathers iMac 24" intel, lastgeneration, it runs smoother than on a PC with simular specs. i dunno, ohh and thats without the cider configs :S Yeh, it's also an ATI card there ----------------- Yay!!
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.13 16:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Sconic People seem to think it is the macs with certain Nvidia cards/drivers are the victims of this bug. Cider + Nvidia card + Eve apparently = an unplayable game for those with this setup. I have the same issue of increasingly unstable play eventually resulting in a crash. Actually the ATI cards generally have more problems. But more or less they were mostly fixed/found a workaround for. The only nVidia bug that I know of and that is persistent is the one known as "Avril Lavigne Issue". I've seen it several times. It's annoying if you do missions and happen to be hit by it. It's much less frequent if you rat/PvP and stay away from cloudy compexes. But even if it can be very annoying in some cases I'd not say it makes the game totally unplayable. It may even be considered a feature, by someone. Especially given my personal workaround: let rats alone, go PvP Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
Jainia Soltella	Posted - 2009.04.13 16:56:00 - [13] I've played Eve with both an ATI X1600 based MBP (1st Gen Core Duo) and an nVidia 8800GT based Mac Pro. I've played for 8+ hours at a stretch, I have run missions, complexes, roamed in small gangs, and fought in some of the largest fleet battles in the history of Eve. I regularly use multiple clients, with the main limitations being my ability to multi-task and my crappy broadband connection. :-) Is the Mac client playable? I'd say so, it has been for a very long time. The only reason I'm playing Eve is due to the Mac client and 14 day free trial. Have I crashed before? Of course. Have I gotten so **ed about it that I wanted to throw my laptop out the window? Sure. Do Windows users also have stability issues and frustration? YES**. I can't tell you how many times my Windows-using corpmates CTD, bluescreen, or just have to relog to fix problems. If you think that crashing is a mac specific issue, you're dreaming. Overall the only difference between the clients that I have noticed is the lower performance on the mac side. That's to be expected, and has gotten better with each release. (I was part of a 100v80 battle yesterday with full effects on, and didn't have a problem...) The Apocrypha expansion & premium client have absolutely rocked for me so far, and I congratulate both Transgaming & CCP on working so hard to support us.
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.13 17:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Jainia Soltella Have I gotten so ****ed about it that I wanted to throw my laptop out the window? I felt similarly in the past, but it was nothing about EvE (I did not even play EvE, back then). I DID throw window out of my laptop Sorry, couldn't resist. Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
kiioi	Posted - 2009.04.13 18:38:00 - [15] What exactly is the bug plaguing some systems and not others even with the same hardware and OS. I've never seen an answer only what is not likely to be the culprit.
Carinosa Peligrosa	Posted - 2009.04.14 11:46:00 - [16] Quite frankly, I find that the current release is the best Mac version ever. No, not just because of the (finally!) premium graphics, but due to the stability. When I started just over a year ago, there was a lot to be desired. I normally ran the Windows version in Crossover Games, then booted into XP for fleet activity of any consequence. Now? I can run two, full, windowed clients at 50 fps while Parallels chugs along in the background. I thought the ATI card would be an issue, too, but it's just fine. If only a true TS client were available on the Mac, then everything would be fine (Parallels is good enough for EFT and EveMon, although native versions would be cool, too).
Miraqu Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.14 12:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne Let me explain things in a simple way so even you can understand : 1 - CCP advertised EvE as working under Mac OS. 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS Eve was also advertised as supporting linux. Since Cider/Cedaga works really crappy and therefore nobody used it, they dropped it. I think, if Darwine or Wine on OSX gets to the same point as it is currently on linux they will drop your precious mac support too.
Sazuka Kirr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS What? But. No. (( Sazuka takes a moment to think )) Apparently I'm using a Mac and running Mac OS X while running two EVE clients. Or. Oh ****. Was I scammed into buying a Windows laptop that had been packaged and sold as a Mac ... (( Sazuka spends a few minutes checking )) Nope. This is definitly a Mac running Mac OS X and two EVE clients, so you, ma'am, are wrong.
rogue5 Quatidion Arkai Confederation	Posted - 2009.04.16 23:08:00 - [19] my mac client is working just fine, been stable for a couple hours now after 1.1 patch, when i would have crashed by now before... Proud Member of Xanadu and the Fountain Alliance
Periapsis Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.17 07:12:00 - [20] Couldnt get the patch to install and now the full download is not working either. No idea why, it was working fine until this patch. Oh well I need a break, will try again in 20 days when my latest skill finishes.
Shar'ri Atal Minmatar Chaos Engineering	Posted - 2009.04.18 22:29:00 - [21] I have good days and bad days with EVE here. Today is definitely a bad day. Since the new patch I've been having random disconnects every hour or so. I run three accounts across two machines. The client is almost as stable as the Windows version now for general crashing. Yes I have friends who play EVE on Windows and it's not exactly reliable there either. Thing is that CCP just doesn't have the quality control that Blizzard has. I want a game with the depth of EVE but with the quality of WoW. You have to remember where EVE started, it's basically an MS-SQL server database with a graphical front end. EVE's membership has grown to the point where they are stretching MS-SQL's ability to scale. I think these problems are going to exist for the life of the game. To solve them the back-end needs porting to a real database system that can handle the loads they have. That isn't going to happen.
Vargrr Yewl	Posted - 2009.04.20 16:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Rellik Sadab We will never have a Mac client as stable as a PC version until CCP gives us a totally brand new Intel native client (which will never happen). The PC gaming industry has found the 'miracle' of Cider and we will never again see a true mac version of a game. Yet most of the crashes, errors and glitches I encounter on a hourly basis seem to be not the of CCP but of Cider. Calling a game "Mac compatible" because it has been ported using Cider is like calling a hamburger a steak just because you put A1 Steak Sauce on it. So until the day comes that a large enough percent of the players are running on a mac comes that CCP will actually pay attention to us, we will have to suffer (but I never said in silence or alone) and try to work out our own ways to make the game run as best as possible. I personally get the best experience when I run the premium client in a virtual copy of XP though Parallels or VMWare Fusion. I can't comment on the PC version, but I'm running the Mac version every day and have been for 14 days without a single issue. Admittedly my Mac is quite powerful - a 2009 Mac Pro - however, I'd still expect to see these crashes too, but have yet to experience any so far. tbh If the Mac version ever became a pain I'd just download the Windows client into boot-camp., but right now as things stand there is no need to.
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Shar'ri Atal Thing is that CCP just doesn't have the quality control that Blizzard has. I want a game with the depth of EVE but with the quality of WoW. I'd bet that the code required to display a single Sleeper battleship floating in the middle of nowere, with no other things (not even the background) and no interaction with anything, is more complex than the whole WoW graphical engine. And the server code that handles ships and object collisions on a single grid alone is more complex and demanding than a whole WoW server. Originally by: Shar'ri Atal You have to remember where EVE started, it's basically an MS-SQL server database with a graphical front end. EVE's membership has grown to the point where they are stretching MS-SQL's ability to scale. As much as I hate microsoft and, even more, the way microsoft users ignore standards and portability (like the very bad idea of publishing a binary and propietary database dump as part of the EVE third party Api tools), it must be recognized that MsSql configured by a microsoft technician (one actually working for MS that MS would send to very important customers, not one having a "certificate") and running on a specialized hardware platform (not your average PC) is very very hard to beat. I hardly believe even IBM or Oracle would be able to do better. Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
Shar'ri Atal Minmatar Chaos Engineering	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Ami Nia Originally by: Shar'ri Atal Thing is that CCP just doesn't have the quality control that Blizzard has. I want a game with the depth of EVE but with the quality of WoW. I'd bet that the code required to display a single Sleeper battleship floating in the middle of nowere, with no other things (not even the background) and no interaction with anything, is more complex than the whole WoW graphical engine. If it is then that is just bad coding/design. It doesn't need to be. Your rhetorical example is totally invalid in practise, a single Sleeper battleship floating in the middle of nowhere with nothing else around would take exactly 0 CPU. The answer to the question of whether a tree falling in a wood with no-one around makes a noise is no. As a common optimisation if there are no witnesses (player or non-player) don't bother calculating it. EVE does not model a solar-system's physics, celestial spheres never move in their orbits. In fact there is less scenery in your average EVE screen than there is in WoW, as such the models they do have now have much higher polygon counts. As it happens, character movement in both games is calculated client side. Not on the server. The client passes these calculations to the server and the server forwards them on to other nearby clients. One of the new features of the recent patch was frequent client disconnects. If this happens to you, fly around in space and see just what works still and what doesn't. Anything that doesn't work requires response from the server, anything that continues to work is client side. Quote: And the server code that handles ships and object collisions on a single grid alone is more complex and demanding than a whole WoW server. Calculating collisions between moving celestial objects should not take much load at all. It is a set of simple calculations on a large set of data, as such is ripe for optimisation with vector processing instructions. Data through put is what matters. Quote: Originally by: Shar'ri Atal You have to remember where EVE started, it's basically an MS-SQL server database with a graphical front end. EVE's membership has grown to the point where they are stretching MS-SQL's ability to scale. As much as I hate microsoft and, even more, the way microsoft users ignore standards and portability (like the very bad idea of publishing a binary and propietary database dump as part of the EVE third party Api tools), it must be recognized that MsSql configured by a microsoft technician (one actually working for MS that MS would send to very important customers, not one having a "certificate") and running on a specialized hardware platform (not your average PC) is very very hard to beat. I hardly believe even IBM or Oracle would be able to do better. One of MS-SQLs weak points is it's clustering ability. It won out in businesses due to it's easy administration and development tools (and also practically being given away). It's also cheaper than IBM or Oracle even if you have to pay for it. PostgreSQL, which is used as a breeding ground for new database technologies by researchers is open source and scales better than MS-SQL across multiple machines. MS is the cheap enterprise friendly solution in this market. You talk about running on specialised hardware. But MS-SQL doesn't, it runs on commodity hardware. Sun and IBM make specialist hardware for markets where database throughput is the only thing that matters. I've just noticed that Oracle have set out to acquire Sun. Hopefully Oracle will continue to advance the hardware side. Designing and developing these sorts of systems is what I do. MS software is heavily entrenched in our company and we as developers are very aware of the limits of MS's offerings. But, all of this has nothing to do with CCPs lack of production values. Software with this amount of bugs should not ship.
Drunk Driver Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.04.22 15:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Drunk Driver on 22/04/2009 15:35:37 Edited by: Drunk Driver on 22/04/2009 15:31:44 Edited by: Drunk Driver on 22/04/2009 15:31:18 Edited by: Drunk Driver on 22/04/2009 15:30:47 My Mac client seems stable to me.
Internalist Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.22 16:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Sazuka Kirr Originally by: Oxanna Castelanne 2 - The game is actually unplayable under Mac OS What? But. No. (( Sazuka takes a moment to think )) Apparently I'm using a Mac and running Mac OS X while running two EVE clients. Or. Oh ****. Was I scammed into buying a Windows laptop that had been packaged and sold as a Mac ... (( Sazuka spends a few minutes checking )) Nope. This is definitly a Mac running Mac OS X and two EVE clients, so you, ma'am, are wrong. I've run up to 4 clients simultaneously... I dunno. If you want to start bashing on someone for being incompetent gits, direct yourself somewhere else. Remember EVE is a native Windows Binary. It is being run through a compatibility layer, NOT AN EMULATOR. This layer as of about a year ago was deemed 100% complete for 16-bit systems. I am talking about Wine, the project that Cedega's Cider is taken from. Cider's source through was taken from this project before then, so while Cider may be functional now, who knows if it is entirely functional on a 16-bit level. Much of the 32-bit functionality may be only added as needed, and who even knows what is needed. Have you ever run EVE by calling: /Applications/EVE\ Online.app/Contents/MacOS/cider Your terminal will spit out lots of stuff that says for example: fixme:reg:IsWow64Process (0xffffffff, 0x8e2c4c) stub! fixme:sdldrv:SDLDRV_DC_BitBlt No dest SDL surface. Probably trying to draw to a window, which isn't supported currently. fixme:sdldrv:SDLDRV_DestroyWindow (10022): stub err:reg:Nt_openConfigW could not retrieve the module file name (reason: 'bad module') fixme:file:FindFirstChangeNotificationW this is not supported yet (non-trivial). fixme:heap:HeapSetInformation stub fixme:ver:VerifyVersionInfoW (0x8d2034,35,1801b): Not all cases correctly implemented yet fixme:console:SetConsoleCtrlHandler (0x7fae8be0,1) - no error checking or testing yet fixme:win32:PE_CreateModule Security directory ignored because you can never completely have every single function of a windows program run smoothly via a compatibility layer. Stuff isnt implemented, and stuff gets broken from time to time. Not even Window's API layer is 100% functional/correct. The fact that you are even running windows binaries on a Macintosh, or Linux/Unix/BSD box, is in itself a feat that was deemed impractical and impossible only a few years ago.
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.04.23 08:01:00 - [27] The main problem is that Eve does work on a mac and works well. I was playing for ages and no crashes, I joined 49-U when it had over 1,000 people in system not problem. Only issue I face is that quitting gives and exceptional error which if fair seeing as you should never leave eve. Things to improve your performance while play are all over these forums and most work well. Firstly try to use windows mode as much as possible cmd + enter. On Macbooks remove the battery. Use Fan Control and add settings for 2,000 3,000 4,000 4,500 5,000 5,500 6,000 and etc RPM if you can so that you can find the best speed for your cooling. Close any unwanted programs. In game use the graphic that are optimal for your card. Secondly quit whining at least CCP knows stuff about macs.
Ami Nia Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.23 10:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Shar'ri Atal The answer to the question of whether a tree falling in a wood with no-one around makes a noise is no. As a common optimisation if there are no witnesses (player or non-player) don't bother calculating it. A tree falling in a wood with no-one around does make noise. But of course the sleepers are not computed unless they are visible. I was referring to the code needed to DISPLAY a sleeper battleship on your screen. WoW characters are extremely simple low polygon models with a single resolution texture. There's nearly no code executed on the GPU by WoW (maybe some of the weapon effects are actually done with shaders, but I would not bet on it). EvE stuff is no more just a mesh and a set of textures that are displayed. The actual mesh displayed and the textures and the lighting is actually computed by specific code that runs on the GPU, before being used to render an image. Originally by: Shar'ri Atal In fact there is less scenery in your average EVE screen than there is in WoW EvE models are no more static models. And with future updates you'll see this more and more. WoW has some nice scenery. But it's actually very low on polygon counts and even the textures are very simple compared to even a single EvE texture. Originally by: Shar'ri Atal As it happens, character movement in both games is calculated client side. Not on the server. The client passes these calculations to the server and the server forwards them on to other nearby clients. This is absolute nonsense. No MMORPG can afford that: anyone could take total control and cheat big time. Everything is computed BOTH on the server and on the client. But the server is the only one having actual consequences. Originally by: Shar'ri Atal One of the new features of the recent patch was frequent client disconnects. If this happens to you, fly around in space and see just what works still and what doesn't. Anything that doesn't work requires response from the server, anything that continues to work is client side. Atually: anything that requires new data will not work, anything that does not require new data will be presented to you by the client speculatively but will not have any consequence. Remember the MMORPG principle: the world is on the server. The client shows you a local simulation of the server process. They sync to one each other periodically. If there's any difference: the server is right, the client is wrong. In a MMORPG none of the players sees exactly what is happening. All of them are seeing something slightly wrong. The games work because the differences are most of the time very small. But what you see is NOT what is happening. It's a local speculation of what may be happening on the server (one that is generally "accurate enough"). Originally by: Shar'ri Atal Calculating collisions between moving celestial objects should not take much load at all. It is a set of simple calculations on a large set of data, as such is ripe for optimisation with vector processing instructions. Data through put is what matters. It's the most tasking part of EvE if we do not count the database itself. And it is so tasking that WoW decided upfront they would not do real time collisions at all. Originally by: Shar'ri Atal PostgreSQL, which is used as a breeding ground for new database technologies by researchers is open source and scales better than MS-SQL across multiple machines. But EvE is not a clustered DB. It does proxy some data, but the bulk of the DB is a single extremely performing DB engine. Originally by: Shar'ri Atal You talk about running on specialised hardware. But MS-SQL doesn't, it runs on commodity hardware. EvE's DB mass storage is not a magnetic hard disk. And they are already using Infiniband. I would not call that "commodity". Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
Dansel Gallente Creative Cookie Procuring Delinquent Habits	Posted - 2009.04.23 13:29:00 - [29] Ok, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but Ami, you seem to know what you are talking about. For me, the game works great most of the time. I can run every setting at max with a 8800GT card and the cider tweaks without problems. I do sometimes get crasher, but they are occuring more less and less. No, It doesn't run as smooth as on a Windows computer, but usually if you are in situation where you need a lot of CPU and GPU power i just lower my settings, cause when I'm doing fleet warfare, I'm usually to busy staring at the overwiev and litning to chats to bother looking at the pretty texture. ----------------- Yay!!
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.04.24 06:35:00 - [30] You wan't a good laugh? SLI 2xGeforce 8800 DDR3 640 MB RAM Vid Cards on my Winblows tower. And my Macbook Pro Late 2008 Aluminium with its GPU's that everyone should know. After the last patch.... the MBP LOOKS better than the windows version. (It's far too dark now... don't know why... brightness is blinding on desktop to fix it) Only problem.... the windows crap code slows it down.... and the FPS is a tad bit low. I've had no problems tho... other than the crashing on exit...which is moot as I am uh...exiting the game. People who refuse to run 10.5.6 and those who have ATI Vid Cards are the ones who are having trouble. Never mind the warnings CCP gives. And BTW... It will run on Parallels and VMware... just not as effectively as the Mac Client let alone Windows. I am in favor of a native client.... I guarantee if they would just do it.... you would see higher FPS... hardly any crashes.... and a far better game overall. But people are too lazy : O P ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================

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