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Djanto	Posted - 2009.04.11 20:53:00 - [1] Greetings everyone, To begin with - I have only recently joined the wonderful world of EvE and I'd like to ask a few questions concerning fw on minmatar side : 1) Any fun and epic battles happening? Or is it all rather boring and not worth the trouble of getting into? 2) Are there any good fleet commanders (aka awesome tacticz) or is it just a big messy ffa? :) 3) Most important question - does fw make a good pvp experience for a beginner? Will it give me some useful info and hints about the "real" pvp in 0.0 or is it just not the same? Thank you for your attention and eventual answers.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.04.12 00:18:00 - [2] 1. Yes. Join. 2. Yes and very bad ones as well. Not enough for sure. Mess is common. 3. Yes. Not an 0.0 expert but I believe it's mostly capital ship battles which is rare in FW (which is in lowsec). FW is hard to survive and an excellent PVP training ground, especially in small ships. I dare you to Fight My Brute !
Bestofworst Gallente Thukk U	Posted - 2009.04.12 01:17:00 - [3] There are always epic battles happening, for example I led a support fleet into a large battle between amarr and minmatar, and our main fleet hot dropped caps in using Cyno fields. Depending on who is commanding, there are always good fleet commanders, and I'm sure you can become one too if you'd wish. FW is great for newer players, pick up a ship you can lose often. I already lost a few cruisers and a ton of frigs, around 17mil in losses, but I've done over 330 Mil in dmg. It's really worth the experience, we could always use more minmatar. _________________________________________
Cat Molina Minmatar Intransigent	Posted - 2009.04.12 02:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Bestofworst FW is great for newer players [...] What about older ones? Are there many opportunities for pilots who enjoy solo-fighting? Or will a solo pilot get blobbed to death by The Enemy?
Bestofworst Gallente Thukk U	Posted - 2009.04.12 02:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Cat Molina Originally by: Bestofworst FW is great for newer players [...] What about older ones? Are there many opportunities for pilots who enjoy solo-fighting? Or will a solo pilot get blobbed to death by The Enemy? It really depends I guess. I've caught rupture after rupture at the Ossuggur gate flying for amarr militia that I couldn't solo in my frig (I suck at frigs, what can I say).
Mutnin	Posted - 2009.04.12 03:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Bestofworst There are always epic battles happening, for example I led a support fleet into a large battle between amarr and minmatar, and our main fleet hot dropped caps in using Cyno fields. Depending on who is commanding, there are always good fleet commanders, and I'm sure you can become one too if you'd wish. FW is great for newer players, pick up a ship you can lose often. I already lost a few cruisers and a ton of frigs, around 17mil in losses, but I've done over 330 Mil in dmg. It's really worth the experience, we could always use more minmatar. My corp is trying to join the Minmatar side, but honestly we are finding grinding the standing to be tediously boring. We have been stuck at 0.41 standings with Minmatar Republic for the last several days with no increase despite the fact we have probably done 30 to 40 missions in that time frame for various Minmatar NPC corps. Is there some sort of delay on the Faction standings?
Paxxsim	Posted - 2009.04.12 04:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Cat Molina Originally by: Bestofworst FW is great for newer players [...] What about older ones? Are there many opportunities for pilots who enjoy solo-fighting? Or will a solo pilot get blobbed to death by The Enemy? Well if you're solo, you probably will get either tracked down and killed or you won't be able to find another solo person to fight against. This isn't a bad thing though because the militia channel makes it EXTREMELY easy to find a fleet.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.04.12 04:39:00 - [8] Edited by: Raimo on 12/04/2009 04:47:00 Originally by: Cat Molina Originally by: Bestofworst FW is great for newer players [...] What about older ones? Are there many opportunities for pilots who enjoy solo-fighting? Or will a solo pilot get blobbed to death by The Enemy? There are, especially if you enjoy one against many and don't mind losing some. :P (There are solo roamers around as well, but tbh you might want to get in to a likeminded corp to be able to gang up in to small gangs as well as solo) ---
Onezen Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.12 04:44:00 - [9] I'm one of those older players. I was actually loseing interest in eve and was thinking about quiting. Then I thought I would give FW a try. I did the solo thing for awhile and then got into gang with another FW person and subsequently was invited into, and joined, their corp. Since that time I have had some of the best times and the funnest fights. Some I've won. Some I've lost. But they have all been a blast. Give it a try!
Lebaneur	Posted - 2009.04.12 06:19:00 - [10] From Minmatar front... 1) Epic battles happen from time to time, but since a lot of corps and fcs left for wormhole expeditions and CCP enthusiasim to fix the lag in fleet battles kind of withered away, big fight are rarer atm. Smaller scirmishes are still and more fun. It really depends on the time of the day - as much as we would wish to match the Amarr forces after DT, we are lacking initiative at that time. So we tend to focus on more guerilla tactics, and rally the bigger fleets in the evenings and night time when the US people are around. 2) I would not say the war is messy. You get out of it what you put into it. Plexes are a good stage for 1-on-1 or small gang fights with frigs or cruisers. Once you learn the ropes and get to know the pilots in your own timeframe, its easy to find a squad to work with. 3) My knowledge of nullsec warfare is limited, but the basics are the same - learn to survive and kill your opponent. FW is a very laidback, almost a week-end war - you log in whenever you feel like or are able and get a good fight in 30 mins. No hours of gate camping or roaming in circles systems trying to find a target. Finally a word of warning - FW is a isk sink. No real way to support youself by just doing the PVP. Missioning and trading are possible of course but not without risks, since you are a war target even in your own hisec. So stockpile your wallet, forget about implants (when the lag hits, it impossible to preserve your clone) and fly frigs/cruisers with cheap fits until you feel confident. PS. Tribal Core is recruiting, if you feel like joining a group of pilots to get started with.
Djanto	Posted - 2009.04.12 13:25:00 - [11] Well, not aiming to become fleet com just yet, just hoping to follow a person who at least has a vague idea of what he/she is doing :) At the moment me and my friend are grinding Minmatar standings, but will certainly poke Tribal Core when ready. Just a question - is there any source of income from FW? Some loot? Agent rewards? I am concentrating on frigates at the moment, hoping to have all useful skills on level 4 at least before moving to something bigger, so I don't need a lot of money.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.04.12 13:55:00 - [12] Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 12/04/2009 13:59:05 Join faction war??? definate yes the minmimatar need people to fight for them, us amarr have a tendancy to take half an hour forming a battleship blob to counter a minor 10 man cruiser fleet, but that aside we (or rather they) do that out of starvation of the minmatar tagets. Lateley you minmatar have been fielding the od battleship fleet but the main competition the amarr have in the area are of pirates who sit in tight battleship formations on gates/stations. So if any one needs to join factionwar please join the minmitar so at least Absinthe brothers and consortium, and The dirty rotten scoundrals have smething to shoot at. On the subject of Minmatar fleet commander. Ummm passs i know of none and as far as i can see they dont actually have any capable fleet commanders. If i am wrong please bring he fleets out. (although im not expecting much) In answer to your 3rd question, there are varied views on the difference between 0.0 and factin war. if you are looking for awe inspiring large scale combat then 0.0 is your thing, the endless pos seiges and mass battleship/captial fights which take hours to resolve. Where with faction war fare large scale fights happen on a regular basis with 1 or two weeks between them, small scale 30 vs 30 cruiser and battlecruiser fight (sometimes t1 frigate) are the norm and take some what more skill and tactics than warping in 300 battleships and concentrating fire. I can say this as i have been in big 400v400 fights in 0.0 and in factional warfare, infact all of my corperaion has been and left 0.0 due to the stagnant nature. But all in all faction warfare is briliant as training and as a place to get the free kills.
Orokar Blane Minmatar The Penumbra Initiative OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.12 15:01:00 - [13] I used to be in the Minmatar Militia, and would certainly endorse Tribal Core. They're an excellent bunch of people and probably the only decent Minmatar militia corp. The Minmatar Militia desperately needs competent fleet commanders, as all of the decent ones left for 0.0, and the odd one or two that are left are absolutely terrible, besides Heinz and Smog, both being quite rare appearances. From my perspective it was good to start with, but several factors severely ruin Faction Warfare after only a short period of time. The primary factor is the insane lag in fleet battles of over 20 people is totally horrendous, and extremely dissapointing. CCP appear to be doing nothing about it any more after the initial posts about running log files etc.
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.04.12 19:35:00 - [14] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader us amarr have a tendancy to take half an hour forming a battleship blob to counter a minor 10 man cruiser fleet, but that aside we (or rather they) do that out of starvation of the minmatar tagets. Why not just fly a 10 man cruiser fleet and engage them? Are you that scared of a lossmail that you need to blob up in a BS fleet to kill a few cruisers? Just fit some cruisers, fight their fleet with roughly equal numbers and have a fun fight.
UMEE Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.12 22:32:00 - [15] i actually quit minnie militia about 3 months back due to amarr not wanting to fight us. most of the good pvp'ers left to join gall/caldari, which is where im goin.
Rylai Moore	Posted - 2009.04.12 22:51:00 - [16] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 12/04/2009 13:59:05 Join faction war??? definate yes the minmimatar need people to fight for them, us amarr have a tendancy to take half an hour forming a battleship blob to counter a minor 10 man cruiser fleet, but that aside we (or rather they) do that out of starvation of the minmatar tagets. Lateley you minmatar have been fielding the od battleship fleet but the main competition the amarr have in the area are of pirates who sit in tight battleship formations on gates/stations. So if any one needs to join factionwar please join the minmitar so at least Absinthe brothers and consortium, and The dirty rotten scoundrals have smething to shoot at. On the subject of Minmatar fleet commander. Ummm passs i know of none and as far as i can see they dont actually have any capable fleet commanders. If i am wrong please bring he fleets out. (although im not expecting much) In answer to your 3rd question, there are varied views on the difference between 0.0 and factin war. if you are looking for awe inspiring large scale combat then 0.0 is your thing, the endless pos seiges and mass battleship/captial fights which take hours to resolve. Where with faction war fare large scale fights happen on a regular basis with 1 or two weeks between them, small scale 30 vs 30 cruiser and battlecruiser fight (sometimes t1 frigate) are the norm and take some what more skill and tactics than warping in 300 battleships and concentrating fire. I can say this as i have been in big 400v400 fights in 0.0 and in factional warfare, infact all of my corperaion has been and left 0.0 due to the stagnant nature. But all in all faction warfare is briliant as training and as a place to get the free kills. I like how you admit you blob them in big ass fleets with larger ships and then whine about not getting a fight.
waruiushiro	Posted - 2009.04.13 22:25:00 - [17] Blob-whining is fail. This is basically what I wish I could fit into local when people suggest our fleet is somehow morally corrupt by using the tactic of superior numbers: FC: "OK everyone, we've got 8 BC and 10 cruisers plus frigs. They have 4 BC and 4 cruisers plus frigs. So, I want you, you, you, and you of the BC pilots to log right now and not get kills. That goes for you, too, cruiser pilots. There's always tomorrow. Now we've got a nice, fair fight." (sound of gunfire and pod squish) Fleet: "So, who wants to be FC?"
waruiushiro	Posted - 2009.04.13 22:49:00 - [18] Blobs aside, the annoying thing is the closeness of each side's respective bases often makes fleet fights like a fashion show, with everyone always changing their clothes. Fleet A is slightly heavier than fleet B. Fleet B reships into something slightly heavier than fleet A. Fleet A retreats and reships into something even heavier. Fleet B can't get any heavier, so they ship all the way down into something light that can slip by Fleet A to look for other targets. Fleet A notices this and also ships down, but into something that is still heavier than Fleet B. Fleet B gets word and reships into something heavier than fleet A.. and you get the idea. We did this a few nights ago, assembled a good sized fleet to counter the heaviest version of what the enemy had. Then oddly they totally shipped down and aggressed those of us who had jumped ahead, at which time the rest of our fleet jumped in and made their best meat-grinder impression (it was spot-on). This turn of events then inspired then blob-whines I address in my above post, of "why would you drop a BC/BS heavy fleet on us cruisers?" Why indeed!
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.04.13 23:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Jaina Proudmoar on 13/04/2009 23:24:07 Originally by: waruiushiro Blob-whining is fail. This is basically what I wish I could fit into local when people suggest our fleet is somehow morally corrupt by using the tactic of superior numbers: FC: "OK everyone, we've got 8 BC and 10 cruisers plus frigs. They have 4 BC and 4 cruisers plus frigs. So, I want you, you, you, and you of the BC pilots to log right now and not get kills. That goes for you, too, cruiser pilots. There's always tomorrow. Now we've got a nice, fair fight." Is not the same as: Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 12/04/2009 13:59:05 definate yes the minmimatar need people to fight for them, us amarr have a tendancy to take half an hour forming a battleship blob to counter a minor 10 man cruiser fleet, This isn't about fair fights - I'll happily gank someone with better numbers. But I will also happily engage in a roughly fair fight - because it's fun. The point I am making is that it is ironic that he is complaining about a problem that is totally self inflicted.
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.04.13 23:31:00 - [20] Edited by: Grim Asse on 13/04/2009 23:36:49 Originally by: BattleStar Crusader Edited by: BattleStar Crusader on 12/04/2009 13:59:05 Join faction war??? definate yes the minmimatar need people to fight for them, us amarr have a tendancy to take half an hour forming a battleship blob to counter a minor 10 man cruiser fleet, but that aside we (or rather they) do that out of starvation of the minmatar tagets. Lateley you minmatar have been fielding the od battleship fleet but the main competition the amarr have in the area are of pirates who sit in tight battleship formations on gates/stations. So if any one needs to join factionwar please join the minmitar so at least Absinthe brothers and consortium, and The dirty rotten scoundrals have smething to shoot at. On the subject of Minmatar fleet commander. Ummm passs i know of none and as far as i can see they dont actually have any capable fleet commanders. If i am wrong please bring he fleets out. (although im not expecting much) But all in all faction warfare is briliant as training and as a place to get the free kills. What our illiterare little friend here tries to say is that there's lots of mentally challenged people to be shot at in FW - especially if you join the TLF ;). Some are easy prey, some (like the above specimen) like to form huge herds, and some of the other russians that do neither are actually fun to fight against.
Teth Soress	Posted - 2009.04.14 02:14:00 - [21] In my experience, and I fly generally at night, that Amarr Faction is just basically incompetent. That was sort of admitted by the guy who complains that their battleship blob isn't met toe to toe by our smaller but more numerous ships. The thing is we are killing much, much, much more valuable ships than we are flying. You know why they lose? When we catch them on a gate, half their fleet runs away. We took out an Absolution the other night because like three or four of his mates jumped when we showed up. It might have been a fairer fight if they had stayed, they might have had a chance. Sure there were like 20 of us but a lot were in T1 Cruisers and Frigs. We took out also I believe an Inty and an AF in that skirmish. So far in my playing, I have been on 23 KMs (Mostly because I am quick on the warp disruptor) and suffered 0 losses. We have some decent FCs but if anyone pulled together some REAL tactics into Faction War and got pilots that were interested in actual discipline, it would be a game changer. In my playing we've been thrashing the Amarr and Caldari both at night. I don't know what it's like in the daytime. Our biggest problem is actually pirate fleets. There is one pirate corp that likes to pick us apart because there are a fair number of cowards that would rather allow Minmatar ships to get destroyed in a gatecamp than fire on a pirate they are blue to. They think they are 'friends' with these pirates, but they don't realize that the pirates are spitting all over them, they are dependent upon their sacklessness to pick off the stragglers who aren't in a corp that's blue to the pirate faction. Faction War is a great place to sink your teeth into PVP, and if you have what it takes to take this sorry ragtag group of irregulars and whip them into shape. I am trying to get a handle on the whole thing and I will try my hand at FCing after I have a few more hours under my belt and a few more SP. I have some basic ideas that are unimplemented right now in my experience. Also, from what I can tell the better FCs tend not to FC all that often, at least every good FC I've flown with has said on comms that they rarely FC. Faction War is a whole lot of fun, and don't let my criticisms fool you, the Minmatar militia is pound for pound the most badass militia in all of Faction War. An exchange I had in Militia chat sums it up best. I was talking about how pitiful the Amarr were, and this guy was trying to convince me that it goes back and forth that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. He pointed out his 250win to 80loss ratio as evidence of this. I pointed out to him that 3-1 odds are not even close to even. No, we don't engage their BS blobs, but at the same time, we trash them night after night after night. We trash the Caldari too. Here is our killboard if you want to see. http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/ So far for this week, we have lost 1/3 of the isk value that they have. That is NOT an even match. In true Minmatar form we are doing more with less than the Amarr, and the standings show it. They can complain that we don't stand and fight their glorious battleship Armada, but neither are they getting into frigates and cruisers. And it's not for lack of numbers. I jumped into Kamela to sell some Amarr loot back to them that I got off that Absolution, and they were all sitting in the station as I docked and put the stuff on the market. There are almost always a couple dozen of them docked in Kamela. The Amarr are cowards, they are terrible at PVP, it's much more fun to travel and Caldari space and win against people who actually put up a fight, but in the end it's fun to take out expensive Amarr Command Ships with Rifters too. http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=50941
waruiushiro	Posted - 2009.04.14 03:12:00 - [22] Hey I'm on that Absolution KM. And it wasn't with killed with Rifters, it was killed by TEH BLOB. Try logging on during the day Teth, you'll find the situation you describe at night but with the sides reversed. And I hate to burst your bubble but on the Minnie KB, losses are usually not posted. So... yeah. That killed/lost ratio gets the jetcan.
Teth Soress	Posted - 2009.04.14 04:03:00 - [23] Originally by: waruiushiro Hey I'm on that Absolution KM. And it wasn't with killed with Rifters, it was killed by TEH BLOB. Try logging on during the day Teth, you'll find the situation you describe at night but with the sides reversed. And I hate to burst your bubble but on the Minnie KB, losses are usually not posted. So... yeah. That killed/lost ratio gets the jetcan. Maybe the kill/lost is meaningless, thats a fair point. Thing about that Absolution KM is that several guys jumped out as soon as we jumped in. We tore apart like three of their guys after that.
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.14 04:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Bestofworst There are always epic battles happening, for example I led a support fleet into a large battle between amarr and minmatar, and our main fleet hot dropped caps in using Cyno fields. Depending on who is commanding, there are always good fleet commanders, and I'm sure you can become one too if you'd wish. FW is great for newer players, pick up a ship you can lose often. I already lost a few cruisers and a ton of frigs, around 17mil in losses, but I've done over 330 Mil in dmg. It's really worth the experience, we could always use more minmatar. My corp is trying to join the Minmatar side, but honestly we are finding grinding the standing to be tediously boring. We have been stuck at 0.41 standings with Minmatar Republic for the last several days with no increase despite the fact we have probably done 30 to 40 missions in that time frame for various Minmatar NPC corps. Is there some sort of delay on the Faction standings? Answer = COSMOS missions
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.14 04:36:00 - [25] FW is a great way to get some PVP experience, period. FW is also a very nice ISK sink and so you must have a "job" to sustain your war, soldier. Ridiculous but true! FW is a lot of fun, but it is dying day by day. The mentioned pirate corp is unhappily beating everybody there, a single corp rule over the whole militia. Sad but true! (Amamake is currently foe space) The bottom line is, go to FW and learn about PVP. So find a good reason to continue playing EVE that means anything but capturing pointless plexes.
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.14 04:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Bestofworst There are always epic battles happening, for example I led a support fleet into a large battle between amarr and minmatar, and our main fleet hot dropped caps in using Cyno fields. Depending on who is commanding, there are always good fleet commanders, and I'm sure you can become one too if you'd wish. FW is great for newer players, pick up a ship you can lose often. I already lost a few cruisers and a ton of frigs, around 17mil in losses, but I've done over 330 Mil in dmg. It's really worth the experience, we could always use more minmatar. If you want a good fight against pirates, come to Amamake dude. We are on our knees .
Teth Soress	Posted - 2009.04.14 04:40:00 - [27] The whole faction war thing is ill conceived and poorly implemented. If you at least got LP for capturing plexes and killing the enemy, then it would be worth something, you'd have a way to make some money and it wouldn't be such an isk sink.
Aria Kink Amarr 501st Providence Light Defense Squadron	Posted - 2009.04.14 07:14:00 - [28] Edited by: Aria Kink on 14/04/2009 07:16:02 Edited by: Aria Kink on 14/04/2009 07:15:34 Edited by: Aria Kink on 14/04/2009 07:14:41 Edited by: Aria Kink on 14/04/2009 07:14:21 In response to Teth, calling us cowards etc, you might want to check your killboard as it seems loss posting is rare for you guys? The Amarr killboard (while not perfect) shows a slightly clearer picture: killboard Had an epic fight last night where we took down around 10-12 ship for the loss of 4 i think, with the mim guys reshipping and warping back to the fun. You will also notice that the mim guys bought a lot of BS out to play, compared to the Amarr (What was that about blobbing?...). The mim FC leave a lot to be desired, most of our fleet could warp back and forth freely due to points not being spread about, and it also seems they have no idea how or who to call as primary (or the fleet doesnt listen....). Teth, try flying at around 2200 - 0100 Eve time if you want some real action! At any point in time, a disapointingly low % of the Earths population are on fire....
Jaina Proudmoar Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.04.14 08:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Veebora FW is also a very nice ISK sink and so you must have a "job" to sustain your war, soldier. Ridiculous but true! If you roam solo or in a group of friends and engage the smaller amarr gangs when you can find one, you can live off loot. Some even drop faction gear. :)
Noskill McCheese Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.14 08:51:00 - [30] I found that amarr kb was pretty shit, aside from a couple G.DIP members, nobody posted their losses. Players on both sides are guilty, all you can do is not be a douche and post your losses. I too was in the late nite ops, had a blast. I lost a lot of ships though because I'm bad at pvp. Lots of fights to be had, though amarr tend to own the daytime hours I hear. Lots of good FC's on the late nite hours I played, though I only ever did one daytime op with some british guy as FC and we got rolled by a big AB-C battleship blob. Will make a pretty good experience, and it's only an expensive habit if you insist on t2/best named fittings all the time. Late nite guys even have a reimbursement thing going on.

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