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BECAUSE'OF FALCON
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Posted - 2009.04.13 04:52:00 -
[1]
What is the difference between these two actions? Some corp say they are anti-pirate does that mean they are anti PvP?There are also PvP corps that say they do not commit piracy.
I can't wrap my mind around this, can anyone explain?
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Geaux Tiger
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.04.13 05:06:00 -
[2]
Anti-pirates generally hunt known pirate corps and/or those who have a sec status below -5.0 (flashy red).
Now, the definition of a pirate in Eve is a much debated topic. My definition, being that I am a pirate and belong to a pirate corp, is this: A pirate is one who attacks ships for the purpose of turning a profit. The profit can be made either through ransoms or the selling of dropped modules after a ship is destroyed. Such actions usually occur in low-sec space.
PvP is the competition of one player versus another. This can range from the market to fights in nullsec for territory. Usually, if a corp is pvp but do not pirate it means they only attack war targets or in defense of themselves.
I'm sure others will define such terms in slightly different ways, but the core of them never really changes.
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AtheistOfDoom
Amarr
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.04.13 05:09:00 -
[3]
Also: pirates kill people for random fun.
And then, he killed the dog... |
Psychotic Penguin
Gallente
The Professional's Club
The Second Genesis
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Posted - 2009.04.13 06:50:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: AtheistOfDoom
Also: pirates kill people for random fun.
That would be a psychopathic killer, pirates usually care about the loot.
Anti pirates are psychopathic killers with an illusion of morality and honer (usually they do more backstabbing and lying than pirates).
me?
I usually don't care about the loot or the targets sec status.
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Reality is for those who have no imagination. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.04.13 08:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 13/04/2009 08:30:04
At the chance of feeding the troll:
There's some thin lines between both of them and at the same time those lines differ per person. If you want to look at it from the technical side; a pirate's actions are governed by profit, a pvper just blows stuff up for the whatever reason.
I don't go into low sec much, I don't camp Amamake gate, my sec status is pretty much positive yet what I do (mostly in high sec) is make people pay the 'stupid tax', wether by ransom, loot or charging them to stop bothering them. I attack rich bastards and run of with the cash. I don't care about 'good fights', I don't care about doing 'lame' stuff, I care about the outcome.
Other people define being a pirate as someone who ventures in lowsec most of the time and is as close to -10 as possible, but as *I* see that's just a personal interpretation.
A PVPer fights for the fights themselves and might/will attack even if the situation doesn't favour him, his drive is somewhat different. Because of that they feel that high sec is for sissies and 'real' stuff happens in 0.0 and possibly some low sec, if at all.
Most people see pirates as evil messed up psychotics and I must admit; I DO derive fun from seeing stupid people do stupid stuff, so my 'profit' is both financial as entertainment. I can be a real ******* and at the same time I can be real helpful, but that's not a pirate's trait :)
In the end it really doesn't matter, we all do our own stuff for our own reasons and attaching names to certain types of actions doesn't achieve anything.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 09:16:00 -
[6]
Pirate is just one type of PvPer. You've got:
1. suicide gankers
2. can flippers
3. can baiters
4. low sec pirates
5. anti-pirates
6. mercs and high sec "griefers" (never liked that term much)
7. and then however you want to describe things in nullsec.
"PvP" is a really nebulous term in Eve because it can happen anywhere and take a variety of forms, rather than being selectively available and largely if not wholly voluntary.
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Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.13 10:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Chinwe Rhei on 13/04/2009 10:07:34
It's easier to say what PvP is not piracy:
- attacking targets with negative standing to your corporation or alliance
- attacking enemies in faction warfare
- attacking anyone in 0.0 territory you have soveragnity on
- attacking people with -5 security rating or lower
- attacking people who have declared war on you
- attacking people you have killrights on
are all not piracy.
In the strictest sense, piracy is attacking neutrals (people you aren't at war with / don't have negative standings towards) in low and high security space.
However some people will also consider declaring war on high sec industrial corporations to get a ransom piracy.
Also the space-holding alliances in Providence call people attacking neutrals in their 0.0 space pirates.
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Beliandra
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Posted - 2009.04.13 12:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: BECAUSE'OF FALCON
Some corp say they are anti-pirate does that mean they are anti PvP?
If a corp said they were anti-apple, would that mean that they were anti-fruit? Or might they still like oranges?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.13 15:55:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/04/2009 16:02:44
The simple version is:
All pirates are PVPer's but not all PVPer's are pirates.
The more complex version is:
Anyone who fights other players is participating in PVP. Yes ... even marketing and mining can be considered to be competitive activities which some people equate to PVP ... though not most.
As to what a Pirate is ... it's sort of like what is a Terrorist? One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter.
Mostly, people who engage in PVP through Factional Warfare, War Declarations or 0.0 Conflicts are not thought of as being pirates when they do so. This of course does not mean that on some other occasion they might well be pirates. A guy who is part of a Factional Warfare Militia is in no way prevented from also being a pirate and Corporations which War Dec other corporations to victimize them through extortion might be considered to be committing Organized Piracy - though this would not necessarily make them a "Pirate Corporation".
You will see that a lot of Pirates tend to create artificial distinctions between what THEY do and what other "Pseudo Pirates" do. Such that "Oh ... I'm a Pirate and I do THIS but other people who do THAT - they aren't really Pirates ... they are SOMETHING ELSE ..."
By and large ... Piracy and what it is - is in the eyes of the Victim. As an example, most Victim's would consider Can Flippers Pirates while many who consider themselves Pirates would not consider Can Flipping Piracy.
Many Ninja Salvagers do NOT consider what they are doing Piracy but many of their victims do.
A lot of these arguments about what a Pirate is and isn't are "how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin" arguments where there is no objectivity amongst the participants - only points of view.
As to myself ... I'm kind of like the Judge who was discussing ****ography who said that he had trouble defining it - but that he knew it when he saw it. 
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.14 07:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter.
Well put. 
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Frater Sen
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Posted - 2009.04.15 10:52:00 -
[11]
pirates = simple PKs, who harrassing other players, wich are low on sp, experience and/or with a pve ship. They generally dont like PVP, because they would get some real fights.
pvp = players who dont mind to loose a fight against a better player
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2009.04.15 11:07:00 -
[12]
A pirate is someone that basically kills ppl for the purpose of looting/ransoming them.
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Trucker Mike
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Posted - 2009.04.15 20:32:00 -
[13]
Pirates in EVE: lack the skill, experience or ships to fight seasonsed pvp'ers, and thus hunt for noobs, mission runners, miners, etc. Can't withstand rigors of 0.0 space, or are unable to find corps that will take them.
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Criztian Gaeta
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:45:00 -
[14]
Well for me personally I would say a Pirate is someone who attacks industrial and mining ships (defenseless targets, while PvP involves that other "P" in "PvP" shooting back.
So as long as both "P"s are are shooting at each other, it's PvP...
Of course in reality it's not that simple... but that's just the way reality works...
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Trucker Mike
Pirates in EVE: lack the skill, experience or ships to fight seasonsed pvp'ers, and thus hunt for noobs, mission runners, miners, etc. Can't withstand rigors of 0.0 space, or are unable to find corps that will take them.
Shut up
Pomp FTW!!! |
5yndr0m3
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.16 01:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Trucker Mike
Pirates in EVE: lack the skill, experience or ships to fight seasonsed pvp'ers, and thus hunt for noobs, mission runners, miners, etc. Can't withstand rigors of 0.0 space, or are unable to find corps that will take them.
this is the lamest post i have ever read in my life.
"withstand the rigors of 0.0 space" WTF. lo-sec is a lot more dangerous then 0.0. you are probably one of those guys that cloaks up when a hostile enters the system, or hides behind a bubble.
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SchwarzeFee
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Posted - 2009.04.16 06:22:00 -
[17]
A pirate is someone who mainly kills for the profit and ransoms people. Most pirates donŠt kill their victims if they payed the ransom. Killing is not their biggest goal, profit is their goal.
People who are into pvp on the other hand like to fight and kill. Their goal is getting battles and kill mails, as much as possible.
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Petra Katell
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Posted - 2009.04.16 14:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Trucker Mike
Pirates in EVE: lack the skill, experience or ships to fight seasonsed pvp'ers, and thus hunt for noobs, mission runners, miners, etc. Can't withstand rigors of 0.0 space, or are unable to find corps that will take them.
Even though it can be easily argued that small gang 0.0 and low-sec PVP requires far more skill than fleet warfare, sans maybe the fleet FC. In the former, your ship fit, pilot skill and situational awareness affect the outcome of small battles much more than fleet PVP. Fleet PVP is much more akin to PVE.
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Amarrbone
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Posted - 2009.04.16 22:26:00 -
[19]
The reality of PvP/Piracy/whatever is that when you engage in whatever activety you chose, you are a fool if you do not take every possible advantage over the people you are hunting.
If you are a pirate in a roaming gang, the whole point of it is to track down and ransom/kill people and to make sure you are mostly successful in doing it.
If you are a 0.0 Sov person engaged in a turf war you are damn sure going to make sure you have every advantage over the person you are going after.
If you are a Highsec pirate* then you will do what you have to do to the people you chose to do it too to make money for yourself.
A 0.0 Dread pilot may not know how to properly can flip a highsec jetcan miner.
A Highsec pirate* probably has no idea how to handle scouting duties for a lowsec/0.0 roaming gang
A lowsec pirate wont bother to can flip the miner, he will lock the ship and ransom it.
* - Honestly these guys are the scum/unskilled at PvP, but they sure are able to can flip that person who has been playing the game for 4 hours!
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.16 22:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Frater Sen
pirates = simple PKs, who harrassing other players, wich are low on sp, experience and/or with a pve ship. They generally dont like PVP, because they would get some real fights. pvp = players who dont mind to loose a fight against a better player
Originally by: Trucker Mike
Pirates in EVE: lack the skill, experience or ships to fight seasonsed pvp'ers, and thus hunt for noobs, mission runners, miners, etc. Can't withstand rigors of 0.0 space, or are unable to find corps that will take them.
You two should totally hook up and have tons of angry, bitter babies.
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This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Terminus Vindictus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.16 23:16:00 -
[21]
Piracy is an aspect of PvP, thus a subset of it. PvP is a broad definition of doing anything that involved directly engaging other players. You could say piracy falls under un-provoked PvP for the purpose of profit.
Hello, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help. |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2009.04.17 01:30:00 -
[22]
Most pvp in eve involves gathering money then SPENDING it, to buy a ship and have that ship get blown up in battles.
Piracy is the act of making money THRU pvp, in other words PvP is not a money sink but a money faucet.
Hence no, they're not going to go after large blobs, waste their ships and be like "good fight."
They go after things they can make a profit on. Cans of ore. Haulers. Mission runners, scams etc.
Piracy = The act of making money thru pvp, as opposed to spending money ON pvp.
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Ryhss
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Posted - 2009.04.17 06:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AtheistOfDoom
Also: pirates kill people for random fun.
This made me laugh. And it's true.
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Ralara
Caldari
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: BECAUSE'OF FALCON
What is the difference between these two actions? Some corp say they are anti-pirate does that mean they are anti PvP?There are also PvP corps that say they do not commit piracy.
I can't wrap my mind around this, can anyone explain?
Piracy is a part of PvP. PvP is not a part of piracy.
Piracy is a form of PvP which uses combat against other players to try and derive a profit from the kills. Ransoming ships and/or pods is a good way to go about this. Pirates do not care who or what their targets are.
There's anti-pirates who try to attack only those who are flashy red or known pirates...
It's all a form of PvP.
My corporation, the united, is perhaps one of the most successful "pirate" corps, if you stick to the definition I laid out - making ISK via piracy.
--
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Iture
Caldari
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.18 07:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Amarrbone
The reality of PvP/Piracy/whatever is that when you engage in whatever activety you chose, you are a fool if you do not take every possible advantage over the people you are hunting.
If you are a pirate in a roaming gang, the whole point of it is to track down and ransom/kill people and to make sure you are mostly successful in doing it.
If you are a 0.0 Sov person engaged in a turf war you are damn sure going to make sure you have every advantage over the person you are going after.
If you are a Highsec pirate* then you will do what you have to do to the people you chose to do it too to make money for yourself.
A 0.0 Dread pilot may not know how to properly can flip a highsec jetcan miner.
A Highsec pirate* probably has no idea how to handle scouting duties for a lowsec/0.0 roaming gang
A lowsec pirate wont bother to can flip the miner, he will lock the ship and ransom it.
* - Honestly these guys are the scum/unskilled at PvP, but they sure are able to can flip that person who has been playing the game for 4 hours!
hey hey. how else are the pvpers in 0.0 supposed to make isk? ransom a barge for like 10 mill in a cruiser and you can come back to ransom them another day!
everyones happy. would you like me to ransom you?
pirating is for gain. pvp is for fun.
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Mitchum DuFinn
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2009.04.23 03:20:00 -
[26]
Attacking anything computer generated/controlled (belt rats, mission rats convoys etc.) is PvE.
Attacking anything controlled by another live player is PvP. Whether or not it is piracy depends on the motivation. Pirates engage other players to make money. Plain and simple, PvP can get expensive and piracy is a great way to make money. A pirate wants to get paid for his trouble.
Other types of PvP include faction warfare. Money isn't the first consideration here.
0.0 turf wars and high-sec corporate wars are another motivation, again money isn't necessarilly the primary reason for the fighting.
Ore theft and can flipping can also lead to a PvP engagement and just plain revenge or punishment is the main motivation here.
It's the motive that determines if it's piracy or not.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.04.23 12:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ralara
Edited by: Ralara on 17/04/2009 23:26:40
[Various refinements on what a pirate is and isn't ...]
Aaaand then you get some of the posters above who consider someone sneezing near another player as PIRATE!!!!!. But that's because they're are too silly to understand what a pirate is :-)
:)
I couldn't have asked for a better post to demonstrate my point.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
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