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Felysta Sandorn
Kinesis.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 19:06:00 -
[1]
The training queue is one of the best things to ever happen to EVE! The ability to train all the little skills up while you're at work is amazing, however there is one thing missing...
Earlier today I finished training Caldari Industrial 5 (training for a Charon), with all the other pre-requisites already trained up... I had the Freighter skillbook in my hanger ready to train to level 1, but I could not inject this skill as I had not yet completed Caldari Industrial 5...
I propose that any skill can be injected, but cannot be trained until the pre-requisites have been met (leave them greyed out on in the skillsheet for example). Then through the skill training queue, the skill can be added after the pre-requisites are complete (in the example given above, this means that once Caldari Industrial 5 was completed, Caldari Freighters 1 would start, so that when I arrived home from work, I could immediately sit in my Charon).
The benefits to this would mostly be prevelant in newer players, with so many new skills openning up in the first week, it can be quite a chore to have to buy new skills every day and inject them... If the new player is just logging in for an hour one day, most of this hour could be spent finding, buying, and setting the training for all of these skills! With the enhancement suggested above, on the first day, the player could buy 50 skillbooks and inject them all, then would only need to manage the skill queue every day.
A further enhancement to this, would be if you set a skill to train that you did not meet the requirements for, it would fill the queue with the pre-requisites of that skill first (providing they fit within 24 hours), meaning less hassle for the user. For example the ability to use the Reactor Control I module requires Science I, Engineering II, and Energy Grid Upgrades II... If the player currently has Science I and Engineering I, he could inject the Energy Grid Upgrades skillbook, or use the 'Train Now' button... This would add Engineering II and Energy Grid Upgrades I to the skill queue, then the user can add additional levels of the skill to queue.
Looking to the future, there could be a button on the pre-requisites tab of a module or ship labelled "Add Skills To Queue". If the user cannot currently use the module, this button will add as many skills the user currently has in his hanger/cargo/current skill list to the queue that are required to use the module/ship in question. So using the above example again, on the Reactor Control Unit I module, the player could click "Add Skills To Queue", and if they did not have any of the skills trained, but had them all in their cargobay, it would inject all three skills, and queue them up, with a notification stating "Skills added to queue, estimated training time: 2h 23m 45s".
Let me know your thoughts, and thanks for reading!
.: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
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Aethrwolf
Caldari Home for Wayward Gamers
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Posted - 2009.04.13 19:24:00 -
[2]
while I am generally against injecting skills you cant train, I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to inject a skill that you will be able to train after your CURRENT skill is done, IF doing so also locked your queue so you had to finish your current skill before changing to any thing else, this would prevent abuse from ppl changing to a prereq for another skill and injecting that skill as well etc etc. Basically, limit injecting skills you cant train yet to 1 skill and require that you promptly train the prereq for that skill. Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Felysta Sandorn
Kinesis.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 19:28:00 -
[3]
What's the problem with injecting skills you can't train? What if you want to venture to WH space for a couple of weeks and know you'll need about 10 skills when you're out there... You don't want them in your cargo all that time, why not have the ability to inject them all, then train them when you have satisfied the pre-requisites?
.: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
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Airborne Legoholic
Caldari Caldari Innovative Sciences and Engineering
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Posted - 2009.04.13 19:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Airborne Legoholic on 13/04/2009 19:34:08 Well the first part I don't totally agree with.
If you allow them to inject any skill anytime, then people will have to travel much less for skill books - The problem with this is advertising. One of the many ways to get you interested in something is too put it next to a common item on the shelf, or put ads along the way to that item in the store. The same thing applies to eve - If your headed the jita to buy a Charon for example, you might see someone spamming an ad for something there selling. This gets you interested in seeing what it is, and before you know it your buying more things than you intended too. This believe it or not is a fundamental part of advertising, and what you suggest would help ruin that.
People who live in wormholes would no longer have to come out to get new skills once and a while - Thus pirates don't have the chance to gank them going through low-sec. Another profession hampered.
Rich players can just buy all the skills right then and inject them, thus hampering the people who move skills from seeded stations to remote regions to porfit.
I can think of a few more but do you get my point?
However after the above, I really like the idea of a button next to the item that trains the pre-reqs. Thumbs up for that!
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Felysta Sandorn
Kinesis.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 19:47:00 -
[5]
An extremely high portion of systems in empire space have skillbooks in as it stands, so to actually go shopping for a skillbook, you generally only have to go 2-3 jumps at most, meaning that the advertising thing doesn't really come in to play, unless you're searching for a rare skillbook (for example a race-specific book like exhumers or caldari carriers), in which case you still have to travel and/or buy from someone that is hauling skillbooks to/from remote regions for profit. Generally people will buy a number of skillbooks at the same time, haul them to their area of operation, and wait until they can train them then inject them, which they would still have to do, but now instead of them sitting in your hanger/cargo for a few days while you train the pre-requisites, you can inject them straight away.
I do agree with you that it's part of the game to travel and buy skillbooks, but this idea isn't taking away from that, it's just making it easier to manage the skillbooks you've bought...
On top of this, I understand what you're saying about travelling to buy books, and at present this would only require moving 2-3 jumps at most to do. How about along with the enhancement above, the number of schools selling books gets cut down significantly... This would give sellers more coverage in local as people have to travel further for their skills!
.: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
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jinkoti boslin2
TORCLAN
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Posted - 2009.04.13 21:16:00 -
[6]
Agreed,
Lets face it, you go buy text books before you start the class don't ya? So why not keep it in your bag ready to go so to speak :)
P.s. Why is the development forum FULL of all the ideas i been thinking about! This is great, lets me know all the other players are on the same page as me.. lol
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Teras Menac
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Posted - 2009.04.13 21:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Airborne Legoholic Edited by: Airborne Legoholic on 13/04/2009 19:34:08 Well the first part I don't totally agree with.
If you allow them to inject any skill anytime, then people will have to travel much less for skill books - The problem with this is advertising. One of the many ways to get you interested in something is too put it next to a common item on the shelf, or put ads along the way to that item in the store. The same thing applies to eve - If your headed the jita to buy a Charon for example, you might see someone spamming an ad for something there selling. This gets you interested in seeing what it is, and before you know it your buying more things than you intended too. This believe it or not is a fundamental part of advertising, and what you suggest would help ruin that.
People who live in wormholes would no longer have to come out to get new skills once and a while - Thus pirates don't have the chance to gank them going through low-sec. Another profession hampered.
Rich players can just buy all the skills right then and inject them, thus hampering the people who move skills from seeded stations to remote regions to porfit.
I can think of a few more but do you get my point?
However after the above, I really like the idea of a button next to the item that trains the pre-reqs. Thumbs up for that!
Not really, you're kind of assuming that someone is going to have like 50billion on hand to buy all the skills they'll ever need. It will just require them to travel less often, it won't eliminate the need to travel.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.04.13 21:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 13/04/2009 21:39:27 I dont like the idea of injection of untrainable skills, however the queue could support queuing (yet)untrainable stuff which has to be in the local hangar or ship cargo for training them as far as the queue reaches them. If the prerequisites are not met or the skillbook isnt available anymore, the training would stop at that point.
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Alteris Domond
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Posted - 2009.04.13 22:00:00 -
[9]
Great idea. If just for skills available after current 1 is trained, like your Charon idea. when i trained for my frieghter(Ob), i ran into same issue. not much of a hassle, but i had to set up and prepare to be online when it finished (i love the queue great job CCP!) Then training the next couple levels had to be planned into my scheadule so..... I really love the idea to be able to inject right before training. even if it requires something else. it would a great help for skill planning
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 22:39:00 -
[10]
A good middle-ground here to solve problems of abuse would be to allow one injectable but untrainable skill at a time. It would solve his Charon problem. I agree it would be nice. I had one of my toons wait overnight in a station that sold skillbooks just so I could finish Jury Rigging and get Projectile Rigs. Sure I couldv'e bought them and flown away but I was going to sleep anyway. It would be convenient to have it certainly.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.04.13 22:42:00 -
[11]
In what way would such a queue offer surface for abuse?? I can't think of any situation where an unfair advantage could arise.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.13 23:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Robert Caldera In what way would such a queue offer surface for abuse?? I can't think of any situation where an unfair advantage could arise.
The aforementioned idea of queueing 100tybillion skills.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.13 23:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 13/04/2009 23:26:36 1) Players buy an advanced skill. They set all the prereqs, just so they can Inject the book and save themselves having to get it back to their base. Then once it's Injected, they clear the queue and go on about their business.
This is assuming that you only need to have the prereqs queued at the time of Injection. And that the queue won't mind if you reset it afterwards.
2) Players buy an advanced skill. They set all the prereqs, just so they can Inject the book... only to find they can't clear the queue after. They are now trapped in a learning plan until the illegal book has reached Lvl I, or at least until they qualify for Injecting it properly in the first place.
This is assuming that the queue will outsmart the munchkins, and will trap you in your decision until you are fit enough to have made the decision legally.
#1 will inevitably result in someone later on trying to add a "curiously untrained" skill to their queue, only to be told "you don't qualify", and then file a petition over the "obvious glitch".
#2 will inevitably result in more immediate petitions, when people were only trying to cheat the system a little, and now are committed to training a skill they were only mildly interested in to begin with.
So... would you like to hear b!tching and whining, or whining and b!tching... when this gets added? --- Players aren't interested in Variety, they only want THE BEST. |
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2009.04.14 00:56:00 -
[14]
How about you allow the player to inject one or two skills that they cannot currently train. Also allow them to remove these injected skills incase someone pulls a stupid but don't refund the book to avoid people moving them via this method. --- O.P. is made of fail c/d.
Originally by: rValdez5987 I dont like your sig. It fills me with rage.
I want it removed. Reported.
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2009.04.14 01:13:00 -
[15]
Whilst there are some issues in how the underlying mechanics work. I agree that the system needs to be aware of what the skill queue will deliver. It's rather irksome watching (in my case) Cruiser 4 tick down and then manually have to start it off on various levels of Battleship.
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Thage
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Posted - 2009.04.14 12:51:00 -
[16]
Well to resolve the potential mis-balance of being able to inject every skillbook under the sun (why anyone would want to do this anyway I don't know, but I suppose a character could forsee themselves training all Amarr ships at one point and injecting all the amarr ship skillbooks, plus all the laser skillbooks etc etc etc), how about either a time-based limit or a numerical limit on the untrainable skills you can inject?
Time-Based: You can only inject a skill if the prerequisites to that skill could be met in the next 24 hours (for example this would let you train the pre-reqs and immediately train the skill in question, still in keeping with the 24h limit of the skill queue). This means that the user would be prevented from injecting the Caldari Carrier (for example) skillbook if they only had Caldari Dreadnaught trained to level 4... "You cannot inject this skill as you are more than 24 hours away from completing the prerequisites..."
Numerical-Based: Simply limit the user to 5 (for example) skillbooks to be injected at a time... Much easier from a coding perspective, but could be frustrating for the user, particularly when training a large number of skills to below level 3.
Personally, I quite like the time-based limit on skills, this would keep the system fair, and would stop people from injecting masses of skillbooks at a time... When it comes to injecting multiple untrainable skillbooks, the calculation to check against the time allowed would have to take in to account pre-injected untrainable skills as well, so for example queueing Energy Grid Upgrades I would take 2 hours to complete (including Science I and Engineering II), the user is trying to inject the Amarr Battleship skillbook, but there is still 23h left on Amarr Cruiser 4... 23 hours for the pre-requisites plus 2 hours for the minimum untrainable skills queue means that the total time is over 24 hours, so the user cannot inject the Amarr Battleship skill... All the while the user can still deviate from training towards Energy Grid Upgrades I, however this will hinder the ability to inject other untrainable skills...
Thoughts?
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Thage
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Posted - 2009.04.14 12:51:00 -
[17]
And I fail at character management, Thage = Felysta...
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.04.14 13:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Teras Menac
Originally by: Robert Caldera In what way would such a queue offer surface for abuse?? I can't think of any situation where an unfair advantage could arise.
The aforementioned idea of queueing 100tybillion skills.
didn't you get how the current queue works?? There is a 24 hours limit on the queue.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.04.14 14:28:00 -
[19]
As much as I share the desire of more luxury with you, do I also share the fear of CCP, that with too much convenience will the players stay more often off-line than to play on-line.
The skill queue is only a small give-away by CCP and we are all glad that we got it. Any more convenience and it won't do an MMO good. The idea of the 24h-queue is to stop kids from getting up at night and train a new skill when they shouldn't. That's it. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Nooma Lar
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Posted - 2009.04.14 15:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Robert Caldera In what way would such a queue offer surface for abuse?? I can't think of any situation where an unfair advantage could arise.
Same here.
Exactly how CCP gains by having someone log on to make a skill que adjustment then log off is beyond me.
There is a difference between game play and game maintenance. I don't see skill studying and que adjustments as "game play."
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.04.14 15:23:00 -
[21]
Personally I feel that if you have the prereq skills already injected then you should be able to inject any skills dependant on those skills as well. The skills that depend on other skills wont give you their abilities until their trained so why inconvience the player?
I have already experienced this issue several times with the worst coming up today in that a skill change will be needed, but wont be able to happen because I know I wont be able to log in when the skill finishes up. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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