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K'tar Amok
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:13:00 -
[1]
We all know bounty hunting as a profession is going nowhere. We all know this is because there is no way to actually prevent a buddy of mine (or even myself with a second account) to cash in the bounty.
I think that the problem here is that there is no actual penalty for the guy who has the bounty on its head.
I may have 1 billion isk bounty over my head but that costs me nothing. I can be killed and I'll show up in my medical clone, unharmed and with the added bonus of the reward being removed.
I think that it is not enough for the bounty hunter to collect the bounty, we need to put a penalty on the guy who actually has the reward over his head. In terms of what penalty to apply it turns out that isk is a poor choice by the same reasons mentioned earlier. I can cash the reward and that may cover any isk loss I get as a penalty.
However, with apocrypha, a new idea was introduced by none other than CCP: SP loss. It will really hurt the criminal who has a bounty over his head to incur in a loss of skill points comparable with the isk bounty over said head if he gets killed by a bounty hunter (or x2 or x5). This will incentivate criminals to be wary about bounty hunters and will actually prevent them from cashing in on their own reward.
Add this to the other bounty hunter ideas floating around (special agents, bounty rights, etc.) and we may have something that works and not the joke that we have today.
Just a thought.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:14:00 -
[2]
Yes!
Magic bullets that steal your memories!
But they only work on criminals.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.14 22:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Yes!
Magic bullets that steal your memories!
But they only work on criminals.
Post something useful for a change.
To:OP I like the idea, but there has to be a connection between bounty and security standing. Anyone can place a bounty on you for whatever stupid reason. BUT if you have, say, a -1.0 or less security standing, then the full punishment for your bounty should come into effect.
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.14 23:09:00 -
[4]
Marcus is right, it's pointless to try and reform the bounty system. Anyone can put a bounty down and those that try to protect their low-sec space have lower sec rating than those in null-sec or hi-sec. Figure out a solution that doesn't isolate a section of the gaming community...like allowing bounties to be put on positive standing players...dunno but it's better than isolating low-sec even more. ------------------------------------
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 23:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Neo Omni
Post something useful for a change.
Alright...
What is the difference between Podding someone at random, and podding someone with a price on their head?
Aside from some paperwork filed in a Sheriff's Office somewhere... nothing.
So why would Bounty Hunting result in the target losing SP?
Originally by: Dev Blog Due to the sudden rift in the symbiotic ship relationship that exists between a pilot and a Tech 3 ship, losing a Tech 3 ship will result in a random skillpoint loss from one of the racial subsystem skills.
So how does this equate to "You have a price on your head, so you forget stuff when I kill you"?
Hence... Magic bullets that steal memories from criminals. |
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 23:33:00 -
[6]
i agree with this idea, but i would like to modify it.
i dont think its appropriate to remove an amount of SP equal t the isk value of the bounty.
2 reasons:
1. i put 200million on your head. noone in the game has 200mil SP. sucks to be you, eh? 2. the eve server doesnt work in skillpoints. skillpoints are an illusion CCP made to make you feel happy a about yourselves. all the server knows is that in 3 hours 20 minutes 15 seconds it needs to bump <skill> up a level. you cannot add or remove "SP" from a character. i know this because i asked a dev to do it ocne after a skill bugged and he told me it was impossible.
i would advocate a system like this:
at -1 standing, you lose a level of your highest ranked slowest training skill. so if the skill with the highest multiplier that you have are the racial BS skills, and you have gallente BS IV and minmatar BS III, you lose 1 level off gallente BS.
at -3, you lose one level from your highest and second highest.
at -7, you lose one from highest, second highest and third highest.
at -9, 4 of them at -10, 5.
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.14 23:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: NightF0x on 14/04/2009 23:57:51
Originally by: Sir Substance i agree with this idea, but i would like to modify it.
i dont think its appropriate to remove an amount of SP equal t the isk value of the bounty.
2 reasons:
1. i put 200million on your head. noone in the game has 200mil SP. sucks to be you, eh? 2. the eve server doesnt work in skillpoints. skillpoints are an illusion CCP made to make you feel happy a about yourselves. all the server knows is that in 3 hours 20 minutes 15 seconds it needs to bump <skill> up a level. you cannot add or remove "SP" from a character. i know this because i asked a dev to do it ocne after a skill bugged and he told me it was impossible.
i would advocate a system like this:
at -1 standing, you lose a level of your highest ranked slowest training skill. so if the skill with the highest multiplier that you have are the racial BS skills, and you have gallente BS IV and minmatar BS III, you lose 1 level off gallente BS.
at -3, you lose one level from your highest and second highest.
at -7, you lose one from highest, second highest and third highest.
at -9, 4 of them at -10, 5.
are you kidding? That's 100000x's worse than being podded without a clone
edit: had to add more zeros because this is just ridiculous thinking ------------------------------------
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 23:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon So how does this equate to "You have a price on your head, so you forget stuff when I kill you"?
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.04.15 00:05:00 -
[9]
The idea is bad and you should feel bad.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.15 00:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: NightF0x Edited by: NightF0x on 14/04/2009 23:57:51
are you kidding? That's 100000x's worse than being podded without a clone
edit: had to add more zeros because this is just ridiculous thinking
thats....the whole point?
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.15 01:39:00 -
[11]
So lets set up a scenario...
You are defending your space in low-sec and shoot and pod a pilot in a belt mining. You drop to -1.0 I come along and find you hanging out at the belt picking up your loot from said battle. I pin you down and use an alt in a station and put a 1 isk bounty on you. I pod you...now your just lost a level in your biggest skill. The cloning station just so happens to be in the same system that I just killed you and you happen to be back at the station. My alt puts another bounty on you as you undock. I pod you again and tank the station guns. You just lost another level from another skill. My alt puts another bounty on, you get podded yet again...etc until you log off in frustration or file a petition for harassment. My point is that not only is this a million times more harsh than not updating your clone but it can be completely exploitable. ------------------------------------
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.15 03:04:00 -
[12]
This idea smacks of removing non-consensual PVP from the game. Why should I lose SP because a friend of mine put a bounty on my head? Why should I lose SP if an enemy puts a bounty on my head? Hell not even killing jesus should remove SP. JESUS!!!!! ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
K'tar Amok
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.04.15 20:43:00 -
[13]
The fact that people dislikes the idea of loosing SP (or trained skills) is a good indicator that it is a good way to punish someone with a bounty on their head.
I like the "loose a skill level" option as punishment for the criminal. CCP can determine the exact punishment, but the whole idea is that the criminal should receive some kind of punishment. In any case we don't want to totally discourage pirating, can flipping and other "classic" EVE moves with this mechanism. That punishment can't be so harsh that everybody plays nice from now on.
I also agree that some more thought needs to be put into this to avoid everybody placing a bounty on my head with little motive for it. The way around it may well be to allow a player to place a bounty on another one only if he:
a) has kill rights over them b) can aggro them (aggression timer still active)
Another good idea is to prevent anyone and everyone from attacking a criminal (aka someone with a bounty on his head). Bounty hunters would need to register and obtain kill rights over any one criminal before they can "collect". This may be time based, after certain amount of time (a week?) the hunting rights expire and the criminal knows no one is on his tail anymore until the next bounty hunter comes along.
Another thing to consider is whether this info is public. Maybe the hunted guy knows who is coming after him.
I'll leave the actual punishment calculation (how many skills to drop) and hunting rights time frame for CCP to determine. They should (gasp!) know how to better balance all this. ;)
It may sound harsh, but then again, this is EVE people! If you think this is harsh then go back to your forest and dance with your elves all day.
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Brema Gangrel
Caldari b.b.k Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:05:00 -
[14]
Add in the added bonus/penalty for the person who doesnt have an up to date clone getting podded right out (lack of isk potentially?)
Double Whammy.
Do i like losing SP/skill points?
No.
But then again I also personally wouldnt like to end up potentially losing ALL my skills either. All it would take is dedication on the opposing players to place a bounty on me and pod me.
Repeatidly.
Also... its not just "evil/criminal" players with negative standings who have a bounty placed on them. There are *many* players who have a bounty placed on them by corp mates (for fits and shigles maybe?)
Yes, the bounty system is flawed currently, BUT punishing a "normal" person who got podded with the loss of 30+days of skills (just because their corp thought it was funny for the player to have a tiny bounty placed on them).... er nope.
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Uglok
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: K'tar Amok The fact that people dislikes the idea of loosing SP (or trained skills) is a good indicator that it is a good way to punish someone with a bounty on their head.
I like the "loose a skill level" option as punishment for the criminal. CCP can determine the exact punishment, but the whole idea is that the criminal should receive some kind of punishment. In any case we don't want to totally discourage pirating, can flipping and other "classic" EVE moves with this mechanism. That punishment can't be so harsh that everybody plays nice from now on.
I also agree that some more thought needs to be put into this to avoid everybody placing a bounty on my head with little motive for it. The way around it may well be to allow a player to place a bounty on another one only if he:
a) has kill rights over them b) can aggro them (aggression timer still active)
Another good idea is to prevent anyone and everyone from attacking a criminal (aka someone with a bounty on his head). Bounty hunters would need to register and obtain kill rights over any one criminal before they can "collect". This may be time based, after certain amount of time (a week?) the hunting rights expire and the criminal knows no one is on his tail anymore until the next bounty hunter comes along.
Another thing to consider is whether this info is public. Maybe the hunted guy knows who is coming after him.
I'll leave the actual punishment calculation (how many skills to drop) and hunting rights time frame for CCP to determine. They should (gasp!) know how to better balance all this. ;)
It may sound harsh, but then again, this is EVE people! If you think this is harsh then go back to your forest and dance with your elves all day.
The fact that people dislike the idea of loosing SP (or trained skills) is a good indicator that it is NOT a good way to punish someone with a bounty on their head, simply because of how the system can be abused. It would take an immense amount of work on CCP's part to make this system remotely fair and prevent the obvious exploitable possibilities. /thread
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.15 22:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Uglok
Originally by: K'tar Amok The fact that people dislikes the idea of loosing SP (or trained skills) is a good indicator that it is a good way to punish someone with a bounty on their head.
I like the "loose a skill level" option as punishment for the criminal. CCP can determine the exact punishment, but the whole idea is that the criminal should receive some kind of punishment. In any case we don't want to totally discourage pirating, can flipping and other "classic" EVE moves with this mechanism. That punishment can't be so harsh that everybody plays nice from now on.
I also agree that some more thought needs to be put into this to avoid everybody placing a bounty on my head with little motive for it. The way around it may well be to allow a player to place a bounty on another one only if he:
a) has kill rights over them b) can aggro them (aggression timer still active)
Another good idea is to prevent anyone and everyone from attacking a criminal (aka someone with a bounty on his head). Bounty hunters would need to register and obtain kill rights over any one criminal before they can "collect". This may be time based, after certain amount of time (a week?) the hunting rights expire and the criminal knows no one is on his tail anymore until the next bounty hunter comes along.
Another thing to consider is whether this info is public. Maybe the hunted guy knows who is coming after him.
I'll leave the actual punishment calculation (how many skills to drop) and hunting rights time frame for CCP to determine. They should (gasp!) know how to better balance all this. ;)
It may sound harsh, but then again, this is EVE people! If you think this is harsh then go back to your forest and dance with your elves all day.
The fact that people dislike the idea of loosing SP (or trained skills) is a good indicator that it is NOT a good way to punish someone with a bounty on their head, simply because of how the system can be abused. It would take an immense amount of work on CCP's part to make this system remotely fair and prevent the obvious exploitable possibilities. /thread
couldn't agree more. SP's should not be tied to ship or pod loss unless you fail to update your clone. I'm not even in agreement with T3 ships and SP loss, which is why I won't be flying one. I paid RL cash for the opportunity to train my character, those SP's are paid for. ------------------------------------
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.16 03:09:00 -
[17]
Dude! We should totally make these Magic SP Stealing Bullets like some sort of Concord LP faction ammo!
That'd be awesomesauce!
You'd totally cash in all your LPs, and get all these sparkly bullets and lazor beemz and missiles. And then each time you shoot someone, they lose memories and training and stuff.
But... it only works on "bad guys". So make sure you only use them on people who have been registered with the authorities as being "bad".
M'kay?
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