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Machiavelli7
   |
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:04:00 -
[1]
Last night the following announcement was posted in BA channel:
 Quote:
[ 2004.08.26 23:10:16 ] Juno Wakefield > Ascendancy Inc.
As of 23.00 hours Eve time on the 27th August 2004 (Tomorrow) you are ordered by Black Avatar remove all your members and possessions from the Querious Region. Any members sighted in the Querious Region after this time will be considered hostile and will be fired upon accordingly.
This order comes about due to Ascendancys continuing and persistent attempts to undermine Black Avatars position in Querious.
Evidential proof of these facts is available by the way of multiple Ventrillo recordings.
As of the time of this message, all Ascendancy members are allowed free passage FROM Querious until the deadline stated above, at which point a state of war will exist between our corporations.
Any act of aggression between the time of this message and tomorrows deadline will also be considered an act of war and will be responded to with force,
Juno Wakefield
On Behalf of Mardaniel Chrasson (Acting CEO)
Now i'm speaking as an ally of both BA and ASCI, as the CEO of Obsidian Asylum. We've all fought together for a long time now, against our common enemy, the CA.
Firstly I'm disappointed at BA's unilateral move. This decision was clearly not discussed with any local allied corps, nor any local organisations such as the CFS. Whilst there was a little ill-feeling on both sides, this was mostly only grumbling because of little issues like no-one with station management experience being on-line at a particular time.
BA have prospered in Querious region, thanks to the efforts of the myriad smaller corps in the area. Until recently, they have levied a tax in the area: we at OA saw it as a very progressive move by BA to lower the refining tax, which helped band the corps together in the face of CA aggression. For this we are grateful to BA.
Secondly, i'd like to point out that Querious region is considered 'free' space (i.e. any corp can settle in the area, and seek their fortune, as long as they aren't either pirates, or part of the ebil CA). I wasn't aware that the region is now BA space.
Thirdly, this development strikes me as a victory for the CA. They tried to split up the corps in Querious/Delve/Period Basis, by offering NAPs and all sorts of other incentives. In-fighting amongst allies will only make the enemy stronger. BA's decision to expel ASCI should be seen in the light of the recent CA war. If CA hadn't targeted the Querious Qstations, and if ASCI hadn't helped defend those stations, this expulsion would *not* be happening now.
Fourthly, the ventrillo conversations to which Juno refers were heavily taken out of context. I know this as i was there for some of it(we used the asci vent when defending A2-V2, and was witness to some of it)! Sure some ppl and corps were slagged off with the usual insults ('damn carebear' etc..) but then which corp doesn't have hothead pilots? Suffice to say that the overwhelming impression i received from the ASCI leadership was that BA were allies and would not move against them. Goodness knows ASCI had enough opportunity to take advantage of the situation, but they conspicuously failed to move against BA at these times, to their credit. Thus, I feel BA's decision has been taken with a little touch of paranoia about the future, rather than it properly being based on aggressive actions in-game.
Finally, I would like to ask Black Avatar to re-consider their decision. It has the potential to blow Querious region apart at the seams. Whilst it's only a game, and everyone likes a good punch-up, if this ends in war it will set both BA and ASCI back loads, make our enemies stronger, and puts other Querious corps in a difficult position, having to choose between friends. BA has an opportunity here to show real leadership by solving this by diplomatic means, further cementing their position at the pinnacle of power in the 'free' regions. I trust they show the good sense to avoid going down a divisive route.
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Machiavelli7
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:04:00 -
[2]
Last night the following announcement was posted in BA channel:
Quote:
[ 2004.08.26 23:10:16 ] Juno Wakefield > Ascendancy Inc.
As of 23.00 hours Eve time on the 27th August 2004 (Tomorrow) you are ordered by Black Avatar remove all your members and possessions from the Querious Region. Any members sighted in the Querious Region after this time will be considered hostile and will be fired upon accordingly.
This order comes about due to Ascendancys continuing and persistent attempts to undermine Black Avatars position in Querious.
Evidential proof of these facts is available by the way of multiple Ventrillo recordings.
As of the time of this message, all Ascendancy members are allowed free passage FROM Querious until the deadline stated above, at which point a state of war will exist between our corporations.
Any act of aggression between the time of this message and tomorrows deadline will also be considered an act of war and will be responded to with force,
Juno Wakefield
On Behalf of Mardaniel Chrasson (Acting CEO)
Now i'm speaking as an ally of both BA and ASCI, as the CEO of Obsidian Asylum. We've all fought together for a long time now, against our common enemy, the CA.
Firstly I'm disappointed at BA's unilateral move. This decision was clearly not discussed with any local allied corps, nor any local organisations such as the CFS. Whilst there was a little ill-feeling on both sides, this was mostly only grumbling because of little issues like no-one with station management experience being on-line at a particular time.
BA have prospered in Querious region, thanks to the efforts of the myriad smaller corps in the area. Until recently, they have levied a tax in the area: we at OA saw it as a very progressive move by BA to lower the refining tax, which helped band the corps together in the face of CA aggression. For this we are grateful to BA.
Secondly, i'd like to point out that Querious region is considered 'free' space (i.e. any corp can settle in the area, and seek their fortune, as long as they aren't either pirates, or part of the ebil CA). I wasn't aware that the region is now BA space.
Thirdly, this development strikes me as a victory for the CA. They tried to split up the corps in Querious/Delve/Period Basis, by offering NAPs and all sorts of other incentives. In-fighting amongst allies will only make the enemy stronger. BA's decision to expel ASCI should be seen in the light of the recent CA war. If CA hadn't targeted the Querious Qstations, and if ASCI hadn't helped defend those stations, this expulsion would *not* be happening now.
Fourthly, the ventrillo conversations to which Juno refers were heavily taken out of context. I know this as i was there for some of it(we used the asci vent when defending A2-V2, and was witness to some of it)! Sure some ppl and corps were slagged off with the usual insults ('damn carebear' etc..) but then which corp doesn't have hothead pilots? Suffice to say that the overwhelming impression i received from the ASCI leadership was that BA were allies and would not move against them. Goodness knows ASCI had enough opportunity to take advantage of the situation, but they conspicuously failed to move against BA at these times, to their credit. Thus, I feel BA's decision has been taken with a little touch of paranoia about the future, rather than it properly being based on aggressive actions in-game.
Finally, I would like to ask Black Avatar to re-consider their decision. It has the potential to blow Querious region apart at the seams. Whilst it's only a game, and everyone likes a good punch-up, if this ends in war it will set both BA and ASCI back loads, make our enemies stronger, and puts other Querious corps in a difficult position, having to choose between friends. BA has an opportunity here to show real leadership by solving this by diplomatic means, further cementing their position at the pinnacle of power in the 'free' regions. I trust they show the good sense to avoid going down a divisive route.
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Katya Detia
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:23:00 -
[3]
Question... is this within CFS law?
---------------------------
CEO: Black Sea Industries
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Katya Detia
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:23:00 -
[4]
Question... is this within CFS law?
---------------------------
CEO: Black Sea Industries
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Machiavelli7
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:29:00 -
[5]
Does that matter?
Neither BA nor ASCI are part of CFS.
_________________________________
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Machiavelli7
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:29:00 -
[6]
Does that matter?
Neither BA nor ASCI are part of CFS.
_________________________________
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Katya Detia
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:38:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Katya Detia on 27/08/2004 11:41:55
It does matter.. as it is an FA corp, kicking a corp out of CFS region...
---------------------------
CEO: Black Sea Industries
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Katya Detia
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:38:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Katya Detia on 27/08/2004 11:41:55
It does matter.. as it is an FA corp, kicking a corp out of CFS region...
---------------------------
CEO: Black Sea Industries
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Chowdown
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:41:00 -
[9]
So let me get this right. Is querious CFS or FA space?
New Shinra Kill system, please be patient were still ironing out the finer points!! |
Chowdown
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:41:00 -
[10]
So let me get this right. Is querious CFS or FA space?
New Shinra Kill system, please be patient were still ironing out the finer points!! |
Elgin Marble
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:44:00 -
[11]
My understanding is that the CFS-FA treaty left Querious in the hands of the CFS, while it ceded Period Basis and Delve to the FA.
This treaty was broken when Black Avatar joined FA.
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Elgin Marble
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:44:00 -
[12]
My understanding is that the CFS-FA treaty left Querious in the hands of the CFS, while it ceded Period Basis and Delve to the FA.
This treaty was broken when Black Avatar joined FA.
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Count Hobo
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:45:00 -
[13]
Querious is supposedly CFS space but in reality it's not.
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Count Hobo
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:45:00 -
[14]
Querious is supposedly CFS space but in reality it's not.
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Avernus
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:46:00 -
[15]
The CFS will not tolerate combat action against any vessel in CFS space other then those meeting the following circumstances:
1. The combatants must be in corporations which have a publicly and mutually acknowledged declared war in progress. In this case CFS will view the combat as neutral as long as innocent ships are not attacked.
1a. a publicly declared war is one that has either been declared in game or on the eve forums. To be mutually acknowledged requires both combatants have acknowledged on the forums the war. Both parties do not have to agree to it but both must acknowledge it exists to fulfill this requirement.
Basically, posting it here in the forums, makes it legal under the CFS laws. All wars have goals, BA's goal is to expel ASCI from Querious. Both corps were in good standing with the CFS, due to that, CFS won't be interfering in this.
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Avernus
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:46:00 -
[16]
The CFS will not tolerate combat action against any vessel in CFS space other then those meeting the following circumstances:
1. The combatants must be in corporations which have a publicly and mutually acknowledged declared war in progress. In this case CFS will view the combat as neutral as long as innocent ships are not attacked.
1a. a publicly declared war is one that has either been declared in game or on the eve forums. To be mutually acknowledged requires both combatants have acknowledged on the forums the war. Both parties do not have to agree to it but both must acknowledge it exists to fulfill this requirement.
Basically, posting it here in the forums, makes it legal under the CFS laws. All wars have goals, BA's goal is to expel ASCI from Querious. Both corps were in good standing with the CFS, due to that, CFS won't be interfering in this.
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Avernus
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Avernus on 27/08/2004 11:50:03
Double post.
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Avernus
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Avernus on 27/08/2004 11:50:03
Double post.
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Cardassius
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Posted - 2004.08.27 11:50:00 -
[19]
ASCI has not declared war ingame or on the forums so those points do not count.
ASCI Recruiting! |
Cardassius
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:50:00 -
[20]
ASCI has not declared war ingame or on the forums so those points do not count.
ASCI Recruiting! |
holyone
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:52:00 -
[21]
Makes it legal?
We have never declared war on anyone! We simply posted the ultimatum that BA gave us last night.
No Avernus m8, you're all wrong. We will never go to war against friendlies.
---
Regards,
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holyone
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:52:00 -
[22]
Makes it legal?
We have never declared war on anyone! We simply posted the ultimatum that BA gave us last night.
No Avernus m8, you're all wrong. We will never go to war against friendlies.
---
Regards,
|
The Crucifier
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: holyone
Makes it legal?
We have never declared war on anyone! We simply posted the ultimatum that BA gave us last night.
No Avernus m8, you're all wrong. We will never go to war against friendlies.
However if you do go to war you get no backing from the rest of CFS. 
Glad i'm not in your puppet alliance.
CFS = Cleans Fountains Stations.
Like me? hate me? It doesnt matter, i'm still going to kill you. |
The Crucifier
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: holyone
Makes it legal?
We have never declared war on anyone! We simply posted the ultimatum that BA gave us last night.
No Avernus m8, you're all wrong. We will never go to war against friendlies.
However if you do go to war you get no backing from the rest of CFS.
Glad i'm not in your puppet alliance.
CFS = Cleans Fountains Stations.
Like me? hate me? It doesnt matter, i'm still going to kill you. |
MAXSuicide
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:56:00 -
[25]
it is against cfs law, BA have no authority to kick ascendancy out, they r doing that so they can declare war afterwards (as stated in the statement) without the charter.
i still cant believe cfs council r neutral on this when it is bltantly against the charter and blatent FA bullying, again.
My vids and random stuff |
MAXSuicide
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 11:56:00 -
[26]
it is against cfs law, BA have no authority to kick ascendancy out, they r doing that so they can declare war afterwards (as stated in the statement) without the charter.
i still cant believe cfs council r neutral on this when it is bltantly against the charter and blatent FA bullying, again.
My vids and random stuff |
Avernus
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 12:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cardassius
ASCI has not declared war ingame or on the forums so those points do not count.
Actually, if you read closely to the CFS law, you'll see that it does matter. Publically acknowledging BA ultimatum is all that is needed to make this war legal in CFS eyes. That was my only point really, in response to questions put forth above.
In short, by posting here, on this topic, you have already given the acknowledgement that would have been required by the CFS law.
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Avernus
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 12:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cardassius
ASCI has not declared war ingame or on the forums so those points do not count.
Actually, if you read closely to the CFS law, you'll see that it does matter. Publically acknowledging BA ultimatum is all that is needed to make this war legal in CFS eyes. That was my only point really, in response to questions put forth above.
In short, by posting here, on this topic, you have already given the acknowledgement that would have been required by the CFS law.
|
Mr Hobo
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 12:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: The Crucifier
Originally by: holyone
Makes it legal?
We have never declared war on anyone! We simply posted the ultimatum that BA gave us last night.
No Avernus m8, you're all wrong. We will never go to war against friendlies.
However if you do go to war you get no backing from the rest of CFS.
Glad i'm not in your puppet alliance.
CFS = Cleans Fountains Stations.
ASCI are not in CFS, so they shouldn't expect any backing, although CFS would be fools to back BA.
|
Mr Hobo
|
Posted - 2004.08.27 12:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: The Crucifier
Originally by: holyone
Makes it legal?
We have never declared war on anyone! We simply posted the ultimatum that BA gave us last night.
No Avernus m8, you're all wrong. We will never go to war against friendlies.
However if you do go to war you get no backing from the rest of CFS.
Glad i'm not in your puppet alliance.
CFS = Cleans Fountains Stations.
ASCI are not in CFS, so they shouldn't expect any backing, although CFS would be fools to back BA.
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