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Sophia Catellani
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Posted - 2009.04.15 14:33:00 -
[1]
form the patchnotes:
Quote: if you are podded and lose implants the client will now adjust skill training time in line with your new attributes making skill training slightly longer. If you lost a rank of a learning skill due to being podded, the client will also take that into consideration and the new attribute level will instantly be applied making training of skills slightly longer.
Patch Notes
i hate CCP! after the ghost training "fix", now the "spend more ISK for implants"-fix...
this is bull****.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.15 14:47:00 -
[2]
Unsurprising and more logical. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Dark Soldat
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.15 14:53:00 -
[3]
FAKEN <insert rage talk here>
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Sol'Kanar
SRIUS BISNIS Band of Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.04.15 15:03:00 -
[4]
OMG HOW DARE THEY DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE. Arg, I need a new sig. |
jrt224
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Posted - 2009.04.15 15:41:00 -
[5]
ok i never saw anything that made implants cost more i just saw them making it logical that once you loose you implants you loose the benefits of having implants... make prefect sense u remove 2 GB of RAM from your computer is you computer going to go the same speed for 2 days??
and yea CCP fixing a bug... those asses how dare they make the game logical!!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:27:00 -
[6]
Ah well it was good while it lasted
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Grista
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:11:00 -
[7]
At least I don't have to start training a long skill before large fleet battles anymore.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 15/04/2009 19:16:29
Originally by: jrt224 ok i never saw anything that made implants cost more
If you start training a long skill before entering combat where you may be podded, the long skill continues to train if your pod pops, giving you time to acquire replacement implants before you actually need them again, for the next skill to train.
So this is another isk sink. Implants lost to combat will need to be replaced sooner. That's why it will cost more.
It's not a bug, either. Since game launch in 2003, the code around skill training merely set a flag that skill X will finish training at time Z. This time was computed using the character attributes at the time the skill was started. This allowed for things like ghost training. The skill training "process" server-side was merely a flag and a date in the database. No work needed to be done, merely the passage of time allowed a skill to complete.
Last year, they redesigned the server-side code for skill training so that ghost training doesn't happen anymore. The server actually has to do some work managing skill training now. It wasn't a bug fix any more than adding T3 ships was a bug fix. This is a new design and a new feature, just like wormholes.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:36:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tippia on 15/04/2009 19:37:00
Originally by: Guillame Herschel So this is another isk sink.
Depends how the implants are created.
Quote: Implants lost to combat will need to be replaced sooner. That's why it will cost more.
No, being repeatedly podded will cost more — the implants will not (well, except for perhaps higher demand which drives the prices up and if you only buy them from the market).
Quote: It's not a bug, either. Since game launch in 2003 […]
Just because it worked in a particular way before doesn't mean it's not a bug — by that definition, every newly released program is bug-free since it has always worked the way it does (even if it happens to not work at all).
It is a bug if the designers say "this is not how feature X is intended to work". The EVE designers are now saying "this is not how implant loss is intended to work" — thus, a bug. Claiming previous implementation makes it a non-bug doesn't work either: it may exist as a bug because of that previous implementation — that doesn't mean that the bug itself is meant to exist. A redesign to solve bugs is not an addition — it's a replacement of a designed that was flawed. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel If you start training a long skill before entering combat where you may be podded, the long skill continues to train if your pod pops, giving you time to acquire replacement implants before you actually need them again, for the next skill to train.
This is what is going to change. You used to start a long skill so that it kept training as if you had the implant even after the implant was destroyed with your pod. Now that trick would not work any more: after being podded the skill will revert to training at the non-augmented rate. Therefore if you want to benefit from the boost you will now need to replace the implant immediatelly instead of being able to wait till the end of currently training skill level.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones
apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 16/04/2009 00:43:47
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Guillame Herschel It's not a bug, either. Since game launch in 2003 [à]
Just because it worked in a particular way before doesn't mean it's not a bug
You're right. But in this case, it is not a bug. It is a design change. They used to regard it as a feature. It was intended. It was documented in the old User Guide. But they changed their mind. It is not a bug.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Caelum Mortuos
Gallente Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.04.16 01:28:00 -
[12]
A lot of pvp players would set a long skill, and then once they were podded they'd just pod themselves to get around, that wont happen as much now
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.04.16 03:01:00 -
[13]
Sorry, I have to agree with CCP with this change. Why should you continue to gain the benefit of equipment you no longer have? By that logic, my pod should do the same damage as whatever ship I was flying when I got ejected. --Vel
Originally by: Liang Nuren
10 shots really makes me a sad panda
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Jeneral Jane
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Posted - 2009.04.16 03:13:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jeneral Jane on 16/04/2009 03:13:24
Originally by: De'Veldrin Sorry, I have to agree with CCP with this change. Why should you continue to gain the benefit of equipment you no longer have?
+1
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.16 07:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tippia on 16/04/2009 07:53:42
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Tippia Just because it worked in a particular way before doesn't mean it's not a bug
You're right. But in this case, it is not a bug. It is a design change. They used to regard it as a feature.
You mean the user guide that wasn't written by CCP? The user guide that only described how the game actually worked, not how CCP intended it to work?
Yes, people tried that argument with ghost training and it didn't hold any water then either for exactly those reasons: the game guide explains the game — not the design intent — for the simple reason that those who write the guides have no access to the design documents. Over and over back when ghost training was being disabled, I asked people to produce actual statements from the CCP dev team that showed that it was "a selling point" and "an intentional feature", as they were quick to claim. No-one ever could.
In that vein, if you can provide some documentation that benefitting from stuff you no longer had was an intended design choice, then you might have a case. My guess is you can't, so you don't. As convenient as it was, the bonus from non-existing implants was a bug, and now it got fixed to work in a logical way. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.16 08:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Caelum Mortuos A lot of pvp players would set a long skill, and then once they were podded they'd just pod themselves to get around, that wont happen as much now
Yeah that was kind of conveinient, or at any rate something of a consolation.
Meh, whatever, +4s are cheap now. 35-40M to replace those isn't so important when you've just lost a 100M HAC with 60M+ fittings & rigs.
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Elain Reverse
Caldari Shokei
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Posted - 2009.04.16 16:57:00 -
[17]
On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags). So basically this is another penalty for fleet battles and only thing what will this step succeed in is less ppl in 0.0 and lowsec and more ppl sitting in Jita/hubs.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Elain Reverse On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).
Got proof?
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4 LOM
United Gamers
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
So this is another isk sink. Implants lost to combat will need to be replaced sooner. That's why it will cost more.
Well if it is just another isk sink, then i welcome it... we need more.
Proving why a change was a good idea in your post about how its a bad idea is very amusing to me.
Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.04.20 12:35:00 -
[20]
Who wants to bet? Next nerf will be to +3s... +3 implant, cybernetics III.
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endaler
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.04.20 12:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Elain Reverse On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).
Got proof?
If your ship gets killed, you cannot click anything for about what... 4 seconds? due to lag. if you start spamming the warp button too late (like when your ship is already exploding, or has exploded) you will get podded
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.20 19:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mohenna Who wants to bet? Next nerf will be to +3s... +3 implant, cybernetics III.
Oh noes a couple of hours of training to use +3 implants. How will we ever cope? ==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.21 09:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: endaler
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Elain Reverse On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).
Got proof?
If your ship gets killed, you cannot click anything for about what... 4 seconds? due to lag. if you start spamming the warp button too late (like when your ship is already exploding, or has exploded) you will get podded
Then you got podded because you left it too late.
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endaler
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Posted - 2009.04.21 13:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: endaler
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Elain Reverse On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).
Got proof?
If your ship gets killed, you cannot click anything for about what... 4 seconds? due to lag. if you start spamming the warp button too late (like when your ship is already exploding, or has exploded) you will get podded
Then you got podded because you left it too late.
Left it too late? left what too late? my ship? , if you eject before you pop, they can stop shooting and just take the ship ---------------------------------------------------- Yes, this is an alt |
endaler
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Posted - 2009.04.21 13:17:00 -
[25]
Edited by: endaler on 21/04/2009 13:17:32 How did this get here twice ---------------------------------------------------- Yes, this is an alt |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.21 13:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: endaler
Left it too late? left what too late? my ship? , if you eject before you pop, they can stop shooting and just take the ship
Start spamming the warp button when you are deep in structure. Your pod will instawarp when your ship blows up unless you're bubbled or have been smartbombed, or unless the lag is extreme (several hundred fighting in the same system)
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endaler
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Posted - 2009.04.22 17:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: endaler
Left it too late? left what too late? my ship? , if you eject before you pop, they can stop shooting and just take the ship
Start spamming the warp button when you are deep in structure. Your pod will instawarp when your ship blows up unless you're bubbled or have been smartbombed, or unless the lag is extreme (several hundred fighting in the same system)
Yes that is the only way to get your pod out, but if you start too late, and you try to warp your pod out, you can't cuz of the lag. |
Liquidium
Hunters Imperiale PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.22 19:46:00 -
[28]
I very rarely ever die in a Pod. You guys need to learn how to prepare to lose your 150-300m ship and save your pod.
+3s are dirt cheap. +4s arent much more expensive either.
Tbh Id rather lose my pod and implants then my Commandship or HAC.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.04.22 20:26:00 -
[29]
Edited by: NoNah on 22/04/2009 20:26:59 I call... old!
Originally by: Liquidium I very rarely ever die in a Pod. You guys need to learn how to prepare to lose your 150-300m ship and save your pod.
+3s are dirt cheap. +4s arent much more expensive either.
Tbh Id rather lose my pod and implants then my Commandship or HAC.
Might want to consider the impact of continous pvping outside of empire and with more expensive implants than that. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 783373
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.22 21:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sophia Catellani form the patchnotes:
Quote: if you are podded and lose implants the client will now adjust skill training time in line with your new attributes making skill training slightly longer. If you lost a rank of a learning skill due to being podded, the client will also take that into consideration and the new attribute level will instantly be applied making training of skills slightly longer.
Patch Notes
i hate CCP! after the ghost training "fix", now the "spend more ISK for implants"-fix...
this is bull****.
Grow up, you knew that this was strange at the very least (getting a bonus from implants that you lost 2 weeks ago) or a bug at best (this can't be real).
They fixed it, same as the ghost training, get over it and grow a pair. -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |
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